SOLVED: EG4 Lifepower4 24v dead battery reading on Magnum 4k hybrid inverter.

[Koldsimer]

@Koldsimer do you remember when you were young and innocent like this

I sure do. When i take a big ole rip from the way back hookah, i can remember when i was excited to buy my batteries from them!

 

[Lilikoi_Heavy_Industries]

I sure do. When i take a big ole rip from the way back hookah, i can remember when i was excited to buy my batteries from them!

That's it... I'm appointing myself the president of the Lifepower4-51.2V-NO LCD Appreciation Society...

Maybe I should hook up a brand new Multiplus II 48/3000 and stress test it with my two Lifepower4 packs that work today... Maybe even wire up a second MultiII in parallel and see how much of their surge I can pull before I hit current sharing issues myself.

And then I could post a thread like this about how the batteries are garbage and try to extort some extra favors from Richard for being special and refusing to use battery busbars?

SEND ME FREE BUSBARS RIIICHARD, OR THE VIDEO GOES ONLINE


EDIT: Seriously though EG4 can you give us the BMS comms documentation for this battery?

 

[McRod]

Has legacy system/interop issues... Refuses to share the most basic data about system configurations. Can't get a clamp meter out because he isn't will prowse and owns MAGNUM SUPARSHUNT. What a character! Maybe better for you to buy at the RV store and pay the prices there.

It takes all kinds to make up this great world! *HUGS*

EDIT:
"This would not be the cause of the issue. It only introduces inefficiencies in charging and discharging."
Maybe look up the Will Prowse current sharing video he made recently? Since you don't want to buy a clamp meter.

Wow. I would hate to discuss a real issue with a loose canon like you. Maybe seek some help for your bipolar disorder? I can give you the VA number if you need it. I know it from memory.

I honestly thought I was giving you a respectful response to your long and wordy inquiry. Didn't realize I was speaking with Dr. Jekyl AND Mr. Hyde!

 

[McRod]

That's it... I'm appointing myself the president of the Lifepower4-51.2V-NO LCD Appreciation Society...

Maybe I should hook up a brand new Multiplus II 48/3000 and stress test it with my two Lifepower4 packs that work today... Maybe even wire up a second MultiII in parallel and see how much of their surge I can pull before I hit current sharing issues myself.

And then I could post a thread like this about how the batteries are garbage and try to extort some extra favors from Richard for being special and refusing to use battery busbars?

SEND ME FREE BUSBARS RIIICHARD, OR THE VIDEO GOES ONLINE


EDIT: Seriously though EG4 can you give us the BMS comms documentation for this battery?

What a narcissist!

 

[robby]

McRod I think you should read @Koldsimer thread on this topic, it's only 44 pages long
Bottom line is you better be ready to fight like a Gladiator or they are going to either tell you that you need to pay for the shipping back to them, plus a 30% restocking fee and if you buy some new EG4LL you will have to pay to have it shipped to you. If they are feeling a bit more generous they may take back your batteries on your dime, waive the restocking fee and you pay only the difference for the EG4LL. But you will get some USED EG4LL batteries that will be shipped to you on your dime. I suspect that if your batteries even have a scratch on them that offer will not be valid and if your batteries are new, then getting used one's is not going to make you very happy.

Signature Solar does not consider these cases to be warranty cases. Don't ask because I do not understand it myself.
They see it as your system having a faulty Inverter or bad wiring and they are doing you a favor by giving you a different battery pack that has magical powers to work with faulty Inverters and bad wiring. Forget that your old batteries also worked, those also had some sort of magic powers!

 

[McRod]

McRod I think you should read @Koldsimer thread on this topic, it's only 44 pages long
Bottom line is you better be ready to fight like a Gladiator or they are going to either tell you that you need to pay for the shipping back to them, plus a 30% restocking fee and if you buy some new EG4LL you will have to pay to have it shipped to you. If they are feeling a bit more generous they may take back your batteries on your dime, waive the restocking fee and you pay only the difference for the EG4LL. But you will get some USED EG4LL batteries that will be shipped to you on your dime. I suspect that if your batteries even have a scratch on them that offer will not be valid and if your batteries are new, then getting used one's is not going to make you very happy.

Signature Solar does not consider these cases to be warranty cases. Don't ask because I do not understand it myself.
They see it as your system having a faulty Inverter or bad wiring and they are doing you a favor by giving you a different battery pack that has magical powers to work with faulty Inverters and bad wiring. Forget that your old batteries also worked, those also had some sort of magic powers!

Thanks robby for the info.

I did go back and read Koldsimers thread. Wow. I read to page 12 and had to skip to the end. I noticed a lot of helpers jumping in asking the same questions over and over creating frustration along with the SS comments in the thread. Noticed several others that had the same problem including with Magnum inverter.

What can I say? Same shit, different day.

My issue is identical. Let's cut to the chase. It doesn't really call for more electrical engineering diagnosis, just a resolution. Which, in this case, if a firmware upgrade to the bms is not available, then a swap for EG4-LL's.

My only other thought is that I do have my Big Battery lithiums (12v), which I could probably reinstall 2 in series and parallel with the EG4 Lifepower's 24v. I bet that would provide the electrical crutch needed, like my SCC provides during daylight. I just don't know how inefficient that would make charging. They are 170AH and the EG4s are 200.

 

[robby]

Are those Big Battery 12V Batteries LiFePo4 batteries?

 

[McRod]

Are those Big Battery 12V Batteries LiFePo4 batteries?

Yes. They are what the EG4 replaced. I was running them in 2S2P.

 

[robby]

Yes. They are what the EG4 replaced. I was running them in 2S2P.

That might be your simpler less painful option. I would certainly hear what they have to say first but if they are asking you to strip down and bend over, then I would just go with this option.

 

[McRod]

That might be your simpler less painful option. I would certainly hear what they have to say first but if they are asking you to strip down and bend over, then I would just go with this option.

I can't see returning them if they insist on shipping and restocking fees. I would think it would be much cheaper to replace the BMS. That might even be cheaper than paying for the EG4-LLs.

What sucks is I did inquire in depth at purchase to try and understand the difference between the two batteries. I was willing to spend the extra cash. I had seen Will Prowse and David Poz videos, all giving them glowing reviews. Yet, here we are! I mean, I guess I can't blame SS for not disclosing problems and loosing the sale! It's just unfortunate that I have to have this problem and THEN find out its not uncommon.

Anyhow, I will post a follow up as more info becomes available. Nothing we can do until after the holiday.

 

[McRod]

Posted my solution in the original thread and updated the title.

 

[robby]

Posted my solution in the original thread and updated the title.

Kind of funny seeing those two little batteries doing something that the EG4 cannot do.
I think that this solution is going to be problematic for all the reasons you stated. I hope you can monitor the cells in those 12V packs because i think everything is going to be going all over the place.

 

[McRod]

Kind of funny seeing those two little batteries doing something that the EG4 cannot do.
I think that this solution is going to be problematic for all the reasons you stated. I hope you can monitor the cells in those 12V packs because i think everything is going to be going all over the place.

Yes, it will be a challenge to keep them equally charged. There are some additional tweeks that I can do to the wiring to help mitigate. Construct cables to equal lengths, wire directly to the bussbar, buy a Victron battery balancer... But..

I don't think I will keep the "little" Big Batteries attached as a permanent solution. Most likely, I will purchase a 3rd 200AH non-EG4 Lifepower server rack battery to couple with the system.

 

[Lilikoi_Heavy_Industries]

Kind of funny seeing those two little batteries doing something that the EG4 cannot do.

Considering that he refused to take a measurement of how badly his wiring was sharing current, and they were wired "the worst possible way" (to quote will prowse), it's not surprising that spreading load across more cells and wires got him through the issue, whether it was a momentary DC ripple voltage overload or he's simply current/amps overloading a BMS momentarily.

Watching people throw money around like that, while also refusing to understand what they're doing, is both amusing and disturbing... Yes, go buy another server rack battery without finding out whether just fixing your wiring would resolve it.

 

[robby]

Considering that he refused to take a measurement of how badly his wiring was sharing current, and they were wired "the worst possible way" (to quote will prowse), it's not surprising that spreading load across more cells and wires got him through the issue, whether it was a momentary DC ripple voltage overload or he's simply current/amps overloading a BMS momentarily.

Watching people throw money around like that, while also refusing to understand what they're doing, is both amusing and disturbing... Yes, go buy another server rack battery without finding out whether just fixing your wiring would resolve it.

Not everybody has a clamp on DC Amp meter and his wiring while not the best should start an inverter without an a problem. Why is it that those two tiny 12 Batteries can start it up alone and yet the two 24V EG4s cannot start it?

 

[Lilikoi_Heavy_Industries]

Not everybody has a clamp on DC Amp meter

My clamp meter was pretty cheap on amazon, and it works.

and his wiring while not the best should start an inverter without an a problem.

Insisting that it's someone else's problem while doing everything wrong is clownish behavior. *honk honk*

Why is it that those two tiny 12 Batteries can start it up alone and yet the two 24V EG4s cannot start it?

He didn't start it up alone, he added it as a third 24v battery, which does in fact reduce current load on the first battery BMS, even with the worst possible wiring pattern for current sharing.

12V lithium batteries need to be setup to be able to handle twice as much current to provide the same number of watts as a 24v battery, so there's a very good reason that two 12V batteries of this type would be expected to put more amps out than a 24V design. So it's actually using the capacity of two BMS units, not just one, to serve as this final/third 24V part of the battery.

Also, why wouldn't the two other batteries be able to start it on their own? They might have a different allowed surge on their BMS. Different products have different specs.

 

[timselectric]

Not everybody has a clamp on DC Amp meter and his wiring while not the best should start an inverter without an a problem. Why is it that those two tiny 12 Batteries can start it up alone and yet the two 24V EG4s cannot start it?

The BMS's appear to be too finicky.
Although, mine is working fine. (Knock on wood)

 

[Lilikoi_Heavy_Industries]

The BMS's appear to be too finicky.
Although, mine is working fine. (Knock on wood)

"finicky" probably just means it cuts off faster when it hits the overcurrent condition, but sure.

I bought two battery packs just in case, but I found that a single pack is actually able to do everything for me.

Strange how they work better for people who design their systems for low current operations!

 

[timselectric]

A properly designed system, takes into account. All of the individual parts limitations. Maybe the solution is to change the discharge ratings.

 

[robby]

My clamp meter was pretty cheap on amazon, and it works.

Yes if you have one but a lot of people don't have one as they did not think they would need it.

Insisting that it's someone else's problem while doing everything wrong is clownish behavior. *honk honk*

There are a lot of people on this forum with the same problem. I think we average about 2-3 posts per week of EG4 not starting the Inverter or EG4 tripping.

He didn't start it up alone, he added it as a third 24v battery, which does in fact reduce current load on the first battery BMS, even with the worst possible wiring pattern for current sharing.

My undersanding is that the Inverter worked just fine with that battery alone before he got the Eg4.

12V lithium batteries need to be setup to be able to handle twice as much current to provide the same number of watts as a 24v battery, so there's a very good reason that two 12V batteries of this type would be expected to put more amps out than a 24V design. So it's actually using the capacity of two BMS units, not just one, to serve as this final/third 24V part of the battery.

Your making it sound like putting BMS systems in Series is a good thing?

Also, why wouldn't the two other batteries be able to start it on their own? They might have a different allowed surge on their BMS. Different products have different specs.

Yes and the point is that the Spec for the EG4 when it comes to surge current seems to be very low.