Some simple, money saving advice, from someone who is finishing up their DIY system.

[A.Justice]

I've loved solar power, and have been playing with it since I was a kid. Now, I have my own place, and a few extra dollars, so I put together a little system, it backs up my essentials, but it's more just to play with. My power really never goes out, I live about 2 minutes from the electrical company's headquarters, and I'm pretty sure their generators feed my lines.

Anyway, being me, and thinking I know everything, I didn't get much advice about my build before I started. One day 1000 watts of used panels came up on LetGo for a little over $200, and I decided it was time to start a project.

I tried to get a cheap BMS, and fried one (probably my fault, but the directions were trash, and in Chinese), got a second one that was fried (probably not my fault), a third one that charged the cells to different voltages (not my fault for sure), and a 4th one that was cheap and not very accurate. $100 later, I just got a decent one for $100 (although I'm still not 100% sure that one was a good decision either, Next time I'm for sure just going to get a nice Daly or Overkill).

I got a cheap charge controller that worked, but was as slow as Simple Jack. Once I got everything running smoothly I got a Victron, and really just pissed away the money for the cheap one, although I do use it on my smaller battery, and for experiments.

I got a bag of wire connectors from Home Depot, only to realize that they wouldn't work for very high loads, sorry I ended up having to buy heavy duty copper lugs anyway. Again, wasting more money.

At first, I undersized my battery bank, and ended up using my original one in my UPS, or portable system. I ended up with some CALB 100ah batteries, which are actually probably the best investment in my entire system, I love them. If I could go back, I would have used an online calculator to size my system beforehand. I really didn't get ANY online advice, and didn't know this form existed until recently.

I also went through cheap wire, sh***y bussbar battery connectors, buss strips, and a few other attempted money wasting DIY pcb boards.

The TL:DR is, if you can, buy name brand parts with a warranty, and solid reviews. I dumped probably around $500 on parts that sit in a drawer, because I wanted to save a few bucks, and didn't do proper research to start with. Cheap stuff isn't cool when it can start fires or leave you powerless. Do you really trust an unknown PCB manufacturer with your families safety? I don't.

I wish everyone the best of luck with any projects, and hope this helps someone not make some of the same dumb mistakes I did.

 

[svetz]

Thanks for posting this, always good to learn from others!

The TL:DR is, if you can, buy name brand parts with a warranty, and solid reviews.

The school of hard-knocks teaches the toughest lessons! Can't say I add much to that ... well, perhaps for those about to take the plunge... start with an Energy Audit ?

Hope you post some photos of your system in the Show 'm Tell forum!

 

[MichaelK]

My sister-in-law first told me this, and I've found it to be true. "You remember the quality long after the price is forgotten".

 

[Porch]

Yep. The market is flooded with cheaply built solar related electronics. People who don't know any better, sort by price, buy whatever is cheapest, then complain here when stuff cooks.

I really wish Will would do a video with a proper solar system, using some of the few name brand company's (Outback, Schneider, SMA) with UL approved products and everything installed to code. Something that is expected to last 20 years. All his Chinese inverters and wires screwed to a sheet of plywood in his garage, gives the impression that is how you should install a system long term, and the price you can expect to pay.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

I really wish Will would do a video with a proper solar system,

He’s done tons of those

uscrewed to a sheet of plywood in his garage, gives the impression that is how you should install a system long term, and the price you can expect to pay.

You got that impression

What attracted me here was his reviews of somewhat inexpensive stuff that works well with truthful review instead of prancing around with long-dollar equipment congratulating himself on his superior judgement.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Yes sir. As my own project progressed I came to believe in a host of things once I got larger and started thinking about home, family, pets etc. Went UL or ETL on all components because I read that you're more likely to recover $ on home owners if fire occurs. Began to see the value of electrical boxes and conduit and proper breakers and BMS and x,y,z... to protect myself and even the pets once you see the cat rubbing against 'things'

Its a learning process for sure. So many things make sense once you have hands-on making power and monitor/maintaining the system.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

There is plenty of good, cost effective hardware out there. I think I've demonstrated that. Finding that hardware in between the junk is where the hard part is, but that's why we have this forum to find out.

 

[Porch]

He’s done tons of those

You got that impression

What attracted me here was his reviews of somewhat inexpensive stuff that works well with truthful review instead of prancing around with long-dollar equipment congratulating himself on his superior judgement.

I just scrolled back on all his videos, and I don't see any with residential grade equipment. Even his web site of recommendations is mostly unknown or new brands. https://www.mobile-solarpower.com. The big names that have been making proven equipment for over 20 years, are not on it.
And also scrolling up and down the videos, there is a lot of thumbnails of stuff just screwed to plywood.

For a DIY perspective (and it's in the name of this forum), I am fine with the plywood approach and do the same when I am testing stuff. And I am all for reviewing the inexpensive stuff and that is why I watch it too. But my concern is that when anyone post a "I want to solar my house, what do I need?" post, the responses are all "Will gave a good review of this new product from new brand from China, you should go with it." and not "Get a proper engineered solution using time tested and safe equipment because you will be depending on it for decades."

 

[12VoltInstalls]

The big names that have been making proven equipment for over 20 years, are not on it.
And also scrolling up and down the videos, there is a lot of thumbnails of stuff just screwed to plywood.

The big name stuff isn’t unknown; it would seem as if wringing it out would not be in the theme or tradition of what got him to 250 subscribers to me.

It’s funny: in so many houses I’ve been involved with constructing ALL the 220/240V panels - even if the mech room was finished or sheetrocked or whatever- are attached to plywood even if under sheetrock. The plywood provides a secure mount for the panel snd ancillary equipment.
You don’t like plywood? ‘Rock it.

 

[Porch]

So lets take the last video. "Beginner and Budget Friendly DIY solar system. Anyone can build this."
No conduit or wire protection, uses extension cord, no strain reliefs on any cables coming into and out of the inverter, battery just leaning on a wall and if it falls over it will rip the cables out or cause damage, exposed electrical on the battery terminals, etc. The only saving grace to this, is it's mounted in a trailer and hopefully plugged into a wall, so building code does not apply. This should never be permanently installed in a home like this, ever. I wish Will would show the proper way to install this, including all the time and cost associated to do it to code.

It's not that the equipment itself is screwed to the plywood, it's all the wiring, fuses, switches, and everything else is just left exposed. Building codes and how strict the inspector varies, but in general, cabling like that can not be exposed and must be protected from impact, pets, and tiny fingers. It should be in EMT, conduit, or a raceway.

If everything is in an appropriate box, then plywood may be fine per building codes. I prefer something none flammable to mount my stuff to.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

should never be permanently installed in a home like this, ever. I wish Will would show the proper way to install this, including all the time and cost associated to do it to code.

Sounds like a great video series for you to do. When are you releasing the first one?

 

[Porch]

Sounds like a great video series for you to do. When are you releasing the first one?

Heck ya. If my main source of income was reviewing solar products on YouTube, I sure would be ordering the big gear and doing many videos on getting it properly installed. Full pull and over load test. Bring in a guest sparky to go over all the details on the install, what he/she liked about it. All kinds of stuff I would do. But I do not have that kind of income to buy it all, and no vendors are knocking down my door to give me free stuff to review.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

And that is the difference between diy vids at affordable production cost and a $20,000 production with sponsored products showing how a $25K install goes in. And that was my point exactly.
I’m not going to be getting my EE degree or an apprenticeship to be be an electrician. I’m happy with reviews and basic instructions on
stuff I might actually buy.

Having said that- in a recent Will video he suggested he is going to be doing some whole-house gridtie systems in the near future. All the arc fault and grounding and panel terminations I’m sure will be covered.

 

[A.Justice]

I just scrolled back on all his videos, and I don't see any with residential grade equipment. Even his web site of recommendations is mostly unknown or new brands. https://www.mobile-solarpower.com. The big names that have been making proven equipment for over 20 years, are not on it.
And also scrolling up and down the videos, there is a lot of thumbnails of stuff just screwed to plywood.

For a DIY perspective (and it's in the name of this forum), I am fine with the plywood approach and do the same when I am testing stuff. And I am all for reviewing the inexpensive stuff and that is why I watch it too. But my concern is that when anyone post a "I want to solar my house, what do I need?" post, the responses are all "Will gave a good review of this new product from new brand from China, you should go with it." and not "Get a proper engineered solution using time tested and safe equipment because you will be depending on it for decades."

I think the point is that we all know brands that have been around for over 20 years are probably pretty decent. They're also quite expensive, and a lot of them require advanced knowledge (pulling wire through walls, working on main breaker panels, backfeeding the grid, etc) or an electrician to install properly, and to meet code.

My thought on Will's videos is that he shows new to market products, that generally don't cost a ton, and can be installed by a slightly above average person. It's not really DIYsolarforum without the DIY, and in my opinion, buying a bunch of expensive equipment isn't really DIY anymore.

 

[RockPaperScissors]

I second this philosophy.
Get the bigger, nicer solar charge controller. It is way too easy to get bit by the solar bug and start adding more panels only to find you've hit the limit on the SCC.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

As I alluded above - to me its also a matter of size and time and knowledge that informs you're view on things.

My system started small (1500w @ 24v) but 3 years later is 24,000w @ 48v - e.g. produces 240v@100a - tied into the home circuitry. At that level, boxes and conduit and breakers in the context of a family and pets and home insurance pretty much become a no brainer. Its still DIY because I did it myself.

As DIY I agree we make our own decisions (no judgement intended), just sharing that over time and more knowledge (mostly from good folks like you-all on this channel) certain things made sense to me and I made plans to back-fill the system over time as it expanded.

Its experiment & learn and then add the zip-ties once you're all set

 

[meetyg]

I think the problem is the high cost of those brand-name products.
They are sometimes out of reach for many DIYers, which makes us search for cheaper alternatives.

I too have spent alot if money on cheap stuff, that turned to be junk.
Especially with cheap Chinese grid-tie microinverters from Aliexpress.
I have wasted around $400 on 3 of those, untill I got a DEYE 2000w GT microinverter (4 MPPT inputs), which costs around the same price.
Yes, the DEYE is no enphase, but those are too costly for my setup.

I have seen/read reviews about those cheapies, and I thought that if I keep them cool, they would be fine. I was wrong. There is no solution to bad design and low quality components.

Having said that, some of the cheap stuff I ordered is actually not bad. Let's say around 80% of my orders (mainly from Aliexpress) are perfectly fine.

Also, it's not that those brand-names are flawless. I have also read alot of complaints here about Renogy's bad customer service.
Victron maybe great, but they are on another level of cost.
Yes, maybe you get what you pay for, but again, for alot us DIYers who are experimenting they are still too costly.

I guess this is all part of our learning experience. Sometimes we fail, make mistakes, waste money... it's all part of the DIY movement, for better or worse.

 

[MichaelK]

It's not really DIYsolarforum without the DIY, and in my opinion, buying a bunch of expensive equipment isn't really DIY anymore.

What you see in a lot of Will's videos is entry-level components for beginners. What I'd call it is toy components for play solar. You want to put up some solar powered lights in your garage? You want to keep some beer cold in a little 36" high frig? That's toy solar.

I'm on a 50 acre homestead, trying to grow a 120 fruit/nut tree orchard solely by solar. I installed the solar system myself, with Schneider, Midnight, and Rolls components. That is DIY, though on scale about 10X the size of some other people here. Not going cheap and picking first rate equipment that isn't going to fail on me and let a hundred trees die does NOT mean it isn't DIY. Nobody here is running a 240VAC well pump on their toy systems.

 

[Bryanbr]

What you see in a lot of Will's videos is entry-level components for beginners. What I'd call it is toy components for play solar. You want to put up some solar powered lights in your garage? You want to keep some beer cold in a little 36" high frig? That's toy solar.

This expression "toy solar" is meaningless and degrading to a fair amount of the solar market.

The RV and Van communities whose lives depend on small scale solar installs and who have benefited from Will's tutorials are not using "toy" systems.

Will has talked about in his videos that he is not interested in detailing how to install Victron and big dollar expensive components and installs because that would be BORING. Most of those systems are also grid tied. Again, that's outside of the RV and Van and DIY markets. The vast majority of people who do grid tied systems are not DIY.

There's no real market on YouTube of people who want to watch someone install a $30,000 DIY system. Will's videos are popular for a reason. They appeal to the larger DIY segment: those people doing small scale solar installs.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Nobody here is running a 240VAC well pump on their toy systems.

Yeah, about that...