Some simple, money saving advice, from someone who is finishing up their DIY system.

[MichaelK]

I made no mention whatsoever to the RV or Van communities, which obviously needs to be smaller scale. I'm always happy to help any of those who are constrained to sticking with 12V.

If the sole reason for this board is to make money, why are you here? I certainly don't consider my system to be boring.

 

[Porch]

All very good points, but let me clarify my point and move off the poor quality issue for a bit.

If you are a true DIY type, and know the dangers and risk of dealing with this equipment, more power to you. Will does target his videos at this demographic, purely on the products he reviews. I watch them for the same reason.

My issue is when he shows a "Have solar on your home for cheap." style video, or any other where it has something slapped on the wall. He is not including the cost, or going over the details on how to do it properly, safely and to code. Or even if the equipment has the correct fittings on the box to attach EMT or conduit and be to code. A 150V SCC with open screw terminals in the front exposed. An electrical inspector would have a fit.

My point is that the beginner DIY types, are watching a YouTube video and getting the idea that all it takes to add a inverter and battery to their home is hanging a box on the wall and cutting up an extension cord and they got a good system for cheap. They are not shown the steps to do it properly in Will's video. This is high voltage and high current electrical equipment. It should be handled and installed appropriately. The consequences to doing it wrong for the beginner DIYer are far worse then screwing up putting new tile in your bathroom.


So, how can this be fixed?
If the equipment is on the test bench, it's under test, this is clear to see and is fine by me. Portable battery in a basket is also just fine. RV/trailer type installs, I am also good with as long as it's indicated what the items are going to be used for and why.

If the intent and demonstration is showing how the product can be used in your home, it should be shown as how it should be fully installed. EMT, race ways, proper fuses, separation of the AC and DC side, grommets. The equipment should also be reviewed to see if it can be installed up to code. Aka, proper knockouts, clearances, etc. If a product is marketed for home use, but lacks the physical design to support being safely installed, then that should not be recommended for the intended purpose. If the DIY guy wants to try it anyway, they know the risk and the issues.

This would require more work on Will's part then screwing it to a sheet of plywood and running an extension cord in. He would need several boxes of EMT fittings, boxes, adapters, and parts along with the appropriate size wire. (most can be reused for the next review). But he would find out if the knock outs are in the right spot, if you can get 2awg wire in the terminal block like the manufacture says it support, and many other issues. This is all stuff I want to know before I think of using it in my system, or suggesting it to everyone.

As for boring 30k residential systems? Understandable. Lets check out how other people have done it. Viewers send in photos, zoom interviews, road trips. I want to see what other people have.
Now defunct HomePower mag had several spreads in every issue detailing someones home setup, along with a clear wiring diagram. It was one of the best things in the magazine.

 

[Bryanbr]

If the sole reason for this board is to make money, why are you here? I certainly don't consider my system to be boring.

Like the term "toy solar", I don't even know what this question means: "If the sole reason for this board is to make money."

The reason for this board is to provide helpful information for DIY solar.

Boring is a relative term. The majority of people who want a DIY system aren't interested in learning about an expensive DIY grid tied system, so it's boring for them. Some people are interested in that topic and it's not boring for them.

There's another aspect to Will's video: documenting and verifying low cost bleeding edge solar technology. Will and guys like Hobotech are providing basic quality assurance for the low cost solar industry. And because they get free kit, or can buy kit with their Amazon affiliate money, they are able to do show and tells on the latest and the greatest.

 

[Bryanbr]

My point is that the beginner DIY types, are watching a YouTube video and getting the idea that all it takes to add a inverter and battery to their home is hanging a box on the wall and cutting up an extension cord and they got a good system for cheap. They are not shown the steps to do it properly in Will's video. This is high voltage and high current electrical equipment. It should be handled and installed appropriately. The consequences to doing it wrong for the beginner DIYer are far worse then screwing up putting new tile in your bathroom.

Will's videos are filled with constant reminders about the dangers of working with high voltage electricity. The 12v/24v systems that he puts together aren't high voltage.

In his most recent video he details there's a breaker and protection built into the battery. He details how the panels are connected in series so there's no breaker required there. He has detailed in his "all in one system" videos that there's little chance of fire from a critical failure in the system. He has previously demonstrated that you should consider installing on concrete backer board as opposed to plywood.

Will provides frequent warnings and advice to hire a professional for grid tied systems.

 

[Bob B]

I think there are a lot of DIYers on this forum who need to put a system together with the lowest budget they can .... and still get a reliable balance system. Between his videos, book, and solar blueprints, Will shows those people how to get it done.
Many have a very low knowledge level of solar and electricity .... without a how to video that shows them they can do this, many would never attempt it.

There are few "solar snobs" on the forum who have what they consider to be better than anyone else and like being condescending about it.

I've gotta admit I have cringed a few times with the way Will throws things together on his videos ..... but his books and videos have made it possible for a LOT of people to utilize solar who otherwise wouldn't be able to do so.

His YouTube channel and affiliate links on his site is how he makes money from solar DIY .... not this forum. Maintaining this forum is costing him money ..... He has gone to great lengths to try to keep it from becoming too commercial.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Let me categorically restate what was said in previous posts: no one makes any money off of this forum. There are no ads, no affiliate links. Will pays for the hosting and the site software, I pay for the search server (Elastic search) and paid for the Wiki plug-in. No one gets paid.

 

[curiouscarbon]

would prefer to sooner see a donate button than an ad ? thank you again for the lovely environment to learn in!

 

[NPhil]

I will, eh, brag that my system has come together pretty well, so far (it's still a testbed, but it's definitely running well enough for me to make tea, breakfast, lunch, and run a mobile fridge and mobile freezer, entirely on solar power), using stuff on the economy end of the price spectrum. I chalk that up to the Grace of God, and my long experience with electronics. Of course, I do have equipment which has failed or is otherwise unusable at the moment. I would say, on balance, I haven't lost more than I've saved, if I assume that my time (I've been at this, part time, but still, a couple of years) is worth nothing.

Of course, I can chalk the cost of the time up to education, and I have learned many things. Obviously (I hope), an important lesson learned is that you are unlikely to save money, in the long run, buying bargains, because "the house always wins".

 

[MichaelK]

Let me categorically restate what was said in previous posts: no one makes any money off of this forum. There are no ads, no affiliate links. Will pays for the hosting and the site software, I pay for the search server (Elastic search) and paid for the Wiki plug-in. No one gets paid.

I saw one of Will's videos where he specifically mentioned that he was earning between 8000-9000$ per month for solar-related YouTube videos, or whatever, which of course are directly linked to this site. So, I would assume that the above statement is totally incorrect.

Please don't ask for a link, because I don't know where it is, but those were words directly out of his mouth.

 

[curiouscarbon]

the youtube channel and associated income is meant to enrich Will Materially

this forum and associated costs are meant to enrich The World Intellectually

this is how i see it. no affiliation. i really really appreciate the intentionality of this separation.

of course the youtube channel is also for education as one of the primary goals.

there are sections of this forum where commercial content can be, and that provides a great way to keep it in its own corner and not bleed into daily discussions.

 

[MichaelK]

i really really appreciate the intentionality of this separation.

of course the youtube channel is also for education as one of the primary goals.

Since there is constant references to Will's videos on this site, and the encouragement to watch them, I don't see how it can be claimed to be separated.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I saw one of Will's videos where he specifically mentioned that he was earning between 8000-9000$ per month for solar-related YouTube videos, or whatever, which of course are directly linked to this site. So, I would assume that the above statement is totally incorrect.

They are not related to this site. The YT channel isn't promoted on this forum. Will is one of the most popular YTers in this field, so of course there will be videos of his posted, just like they are on other forums. No income is generated from this site, as I said, no ads, no affiliate links, Will doesn't post links to his videos here every time he uploads one, etc. His YT channel has far more viewers than this site has members.

@Will Prowse can offer some insights if he wants.

 

[Bryanbr]

Since there is constant references to Will's videos on this site, and the encouragement to watch them, I don't see how it can be claimed to be separated.

Will isn't the only YouTuber who posts on this site. I've seen a few others.

Create your own YouTube videos that are helpful to people and create discussion around them on this site. Then you too can get money from YouTube.

Or maybe everyone who has posted a video on YouTube should be banned from this site?

 

[MichaelK]

Or maybe everyone who has posted a video on YouTube should be banned from this site?

I don't have a problem with people earning money from their presentations. But I think it's a bit naive to think that Will does not benefit financially from this site, even if somewhat indirectly.

 

[Bryanbr]

I don't have a problem with people earning money from their presentations. But I think it's a bit naive to think that Will does not benefit financially from this site, even if somewhat indirectly.

Of course he does. Basically every platform that provides exposure to his YouTube channel (even indirectly) generates revenue.

Jeff Bezos gets money from this site too. Jeff gets paid. Will gets paid.

Both Jeff and Will pay taxes. So I get some of that money when the government gives me a 30% discount on solar. Apparently, this money generation is all connected somehow.

Thank you Jeff Bezos and Will Prowse for giving me your hard earned money!

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

But I think it's a bit naive to think that Will does not benefit financially from this site, even if somewhat indirectly.

This site has 37K members. He has 571K subscribers on YT, and had almost 300K views on his last video. This site is insignificant to generate traffic to his YT channel.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

B

I think it's a bit naive to think that Will does not benefit financially from this site, even if somewhat indirectly.

i respect you, I’ve seen your helpful posts.

Think about it this way. In some related areas to (12volt electrical, others) a portion of my skill set I often provide some free advice or often: services. It’s fairly clear to folks I’m earning income from some fields. But my time-invested philanthropic efforts do not provide or source my income. Even though I may get some occasional (rare) income ‘indirectly’ due to the ‘visibility’ that happens when I volunteer that doesn’t either polute my good intentions or make my efforts self serving.
It’s like the caterer for say, a race car shop- that gets hired once or twice a year. Or not.
Small insignificant role. In other words, income wise, it wouldn’t matter if it didn’t exist. Even if it plays a small but not really significant supporting role.

Receiving a blessing or ancillary benefit doesn’t equate with malfeasance or reveal poor character.

 

[RobertGreen]

I've been disenchanted with A LOT of different forums over the years who intended their forum to be primarily a moneymaking apparatus for the owner. Between the agressively spammy posts from sponsors or favored vendors, to the deletion or banning of anyone who expressed a negative view of the same-- a lot of forums fail to be the open platform for people to learn together and exchange information in a friendly and useful way.

This site has been a refreshing and pleasant experience in comparison. I really appreciate all of the knowledge that has been shared here, and it's really helped me along with learning about lifepo4's particularly, and a lot about off grid solar in general.
I've found this forum to be friendly, open, and helpful in a way that I have rarely seen on the net in recent years.

I have particularly appreciated the relaxed but sensible policies regarding advertising products or sharing links.

 

[A.Justice]

This site has 37K members. He has 571K subscribers on YT, and had almost 300K views on his last video. This site is insignificant to generate traffic to his YT channel.

I thought this site got something like 9 million page views a month. I think most of the users probably aren't registered. If you search carefully there's not a lot of questions that haven't been answered, which doesn't leave the need for registration.

I would imagine the site pushes a ton of traffic to Wills YouTube page. Not that there's anything wrong with profiting from your creation.

 

[A.Justice]

All very good points, but let me clarify my point and move off the poor quality issue for a bit.

If you are a true DIY type, and know the dangers and risk of dealing with this equipment, more power to you. Will does target his videos at this demographic, purely on the products he reviews. I watch them for the same reason.

My issue is when he shows a "Have solar on your home for cheap." style video, or any other where it has something slapped on the wall. He is not including the cost, or going over the details on how to do it properly, safely and to code. Or even if the equipment has the correct fittings on the box to attach EMT or conduit and be to code. A 150V SCC with open screw terminals in the front exposed. An electrical inspector would have a fit.

My point is that the beginner DIY types, are watching a YouTube video and getting the idea that all it takes to add a inverter and battery to their home is hanging a box on the wall and cutting up an extension cord and they got a good system for cheap. They are not shown the steps to do it properly in Will's video. This is high voltage and high current electrical equipment. It should be handled and installed appropriately. The consequences to doing it wrong for the beginner DIYer are far worse then screwing up putting new tile in your bathroom.


So, how can this be fixed?
If the equipment is on the test bench, it's under test, this is clear to see and is fine by me. Portable battery in a basket is also just fine. RV/trailer type installs, I am also good with as long as it's indicated what the items are going to be used for and why.

If the intent and demonstration is showing how the product can be used in your home, it should be shown as how it should be fully installed. EMT, race ways, proper fuses, separation of the AC and DC side, grommets. The equipment should also be reviewed to see if it can be installed up to code. Aka, proper knockouts, clearances, etc. If a product is marketed for home use, but lacks the physical design to support being safely installed, then that should not be recommended for the intended purpose. If the DIY guy wants to try it anyway, they know the risk and the issues.

This would require more work on Will's part then screwing it to a sheet of plywood and running an extension cord in. He would need several boxes of EMT fittings, boxes, adapters, and parts along with the appropriate size wire. (most can be reused for the next review). But he would find out if the knock outs are in the right spot, if you can get 2awg wire in the terminal block like the manufacture says it support, and many other issues. This is all stuff I want to know before I think of using it in my system, or suggesting it to everyone.

As for boring 30k residential systems? Understandable. Lets check out how other people have done it. Viewers send in photos, zoom interviews, road trips. I want to see what other people have.
Now defunct HomePower mag had several spreads in every issue detailing someones home setup, along with a clear wiring diagram. It was one of the best things in the magazine.

You should pitch ElectricianU on YouTube to do some solar videos. He's a licensed master electrician, and I'm sure he would be able to show the full installation done properly.