SPF Growatt 5000 ES System. Design review and suggestions

[automatikdonn]

What is being said on that thread has gone in circles so many times I can't even figure out what is being said that works and what doesn't work. Unless YOU plan to personally fix the problem for the followers of that thread then a final decision of what works needs to be made and simplified so a non professional can understand how to actually apply it. Just my opinion. I just want to make a PV system that works and is simple to put together for a DIY individual.

I am still waiting on a box to show up to do a full build video so people can follow along. I have been waiting for close to 3 weeks so far. You aren't wrong that the thread is a little deep for people who don't understand AC/DC circuits at technical depth. I am going as fast as I can, but the world we live in today is just moving slower.

The circuitry for the protection mechanism is really actually quite simple, but needs some explaining.

 

[Jim Lee]

Jim,
I think the answer to your question is here (the video will be done processing in about 15 minutes)

Thanks again. If I buy 3 or 4 GW's and find I only need two to run my house I can just turn off one of the slave units and save the 60 watts per hour Idle cost and if I ever have problems with one inverter or I need more power I can just turn it on. Seems like a good Insurance policy and 26% Tax credit to help pay for it if I do it now.

 

[automatikdonn]

Thanks again. If I buy 3 or 4 GW's and find I only need two to run my house I can just turn off one of the slave units and save the 60 watts per hour Idle cost and if I ever have problems with one inverter or I need more power I can just turn it on. Seems like a good Insurance policy and 26% Tax credit to help pay for it if I do it now.

I am planning to go all in and go all the way to 6 for my setup. I have been measuring my house for the last month or so with a sense monitor and it seems like my max usage is 31kw - so a 30KW setup should work nicely for me.

 

[Jim Lee]

Jim,
I think the answer to your question is here (the video will be done processing in about 15 minutes)

I just watched your video again and realized if the unit still charges it probably still uses the idle 60 watt/hr. Oh well, I will keep thinking about it.

 

[automatikdonn]

Thanks again. If I buy 3 or 4 GW's and find I only need two to run my house I can just turn off one of the slave units and save the 60 watts per hour Idle cost and if I ever have problems with one inverter or I need more power I can just turn it on. Seems like a good Insurance policy and 26% Tax credit to help pay for it if I do it now.

I am very happy so far with my units. I even wired in a circuit level transfer switch to my shop and I am testing out how well that works. After a 30-60 day test period, if all is well I will be hooking the same system up for the rest of my house. I have to pretty much rebuild my whole system because where I am going things now, I am out of space.

I will be making a build video of the whole 30KW system from start to finish.

 

[Sun in Lithium]

I just watched your video again and realized if the unit still charges it probably still uses the idle 60 watt/hr. Oh well, I will keep thinking about it.

Most off the idle consumption is used to turn the mosfets on and off. To switch dc to ac. When the inverter is off but the mppt charge is still working it uses a little power directly from the PV and goes to sleep when there isn't any solar.

At least that's been my experience with the lvx6048.

 

[rick777]

Rated max PV input for the GW SPF 5000ES is 5500w according to spec sheet. If you install all 30 panels, you will be over paneled. Some will tell you that isn't a problem, myself I don't like running things to the limit. But that max limit doesn't quite make sense if indeed PV OCV is rated at 450V and ISC is 100a. I'd be checking into that with Ian and do some more research.

At 30 of those panels, you will be installing as 6S5P? The reason for 6S is because 30 panels is easily divided by 6. With 6S5P, PV OCV would be 295v, ISC is 52a.

For that price per panel, you could buy something like these, you only need 22 of them for 12Kw, they are slightly longer however than a standard 72 cell module but for my MT Solar mount it still worked on a 16 cell mount after I contacted them. https://store.santansolar.com/product/new-ja-solar-530w-half-cell-mono-solar-panel/ If you went with these panels, you could go 24 panels, this allows different string configurations.

As for diagrams, there are plenty in the archives here plus Ian has some on his site https://watts247.com/ that show some general information. Each member here has their own type of setup dependent upon batteries, BMS, SCC and inverters. There is no one size fits all. Signature Solar should provide you one if you are looking to buy one of their kits.

I asked Signature Solar for some help with a wiring diagram for a very similar setup to this and this was their reply:

"We do not advise on wiring in the Tech department, due to different areas requiring different configurations depending on where you live. We recommend contacting a licensed electrician before altering any Grid power sources."

I find that amazing given that this should be diagrammed in detail by them since they are promoting the use of the Growatt 5K ES with the SolarEdge transformer and their lithium batteries. Great on paper, but without some instructions on how to set up the entire system, too risky for me to take on. I'm not even comfortable hiring an electrician. How do I know they know all the system implications to get this "right"? I would actually gladly pay Signature Solar for a couple of hours of consulting time and a wiring diagram. This response was received after trying to get any response from their tech department for over 2 weeks, btw.

 

[Jim Lee]

I asked Signature Solar for some help with a wiring diagram for a very similar setup to this and this was their reply:

"We do not advise on wiring in the Tech department, due to different areas requiring different configurations depending on where you live. We recommend contacting a licensed electrician before altering any Grid power sources."

I find that amazing given that this should be diagrammed in detail by them since they are promoting the use of the Growatt 5K ES with the SolarEdge transformer and their lithium batteries. Great on paper, but without some instructions on how to set up the entire system, too risky for me to take on. I'm not even comfortable hiring an electrician. How do I know they know all the system implications to get this "right"? I would actually gladly pay Signature Solar for a couple of hours of consulting time and a wiring diagram. This response was received after trying to get any response from their tech department for over 2 weeks, btw.

I 've gotten the same negative response from Signature Solar. They could sell $18K to $20K of solar to me based on them saying and advertise a lot of promises, but when you ask them to explain, they like to say DIY, just DIY. Their reputation is rapidly going into the toilet. So many people say "Just call Signature, they are so helpful". I HAVEN'T SEEN THEIR HELPFUL SIDE YET. I'm beginning to think the ones saying that are the ones getting paid by them. I've been wanting to order from them, but their not willing to help attitude is holding me back.

 

[Zwy]

I asked Signature Solar for some help with a wiring diagram for a very similar setup to this and this was their reply:

"We do not advise on wiring in the Tech department, due to different areas requiring different configurations depending on where you live. We recommend contacting a licensed electrician before altering any Grid power sources."

I find that amazing given that this should be diagrammed in detail by them since they are promoting the use of the Growatt 5K ES with the SolarEdge transformer and their lithium batteries. Great on paper, but without some instructions on how to set up the entire system, too risky for me to take on. I'm not even comfortable hiring an electrician. How do I know they know all the system implications to get this "right"? I would actually gladly pay Signature Solar for a couple of hours of consulting time and a wiring diagram. This response was received after trying to get any response from their tech department for over 2 weeks, btw.

I find there are better choices out there for inverters other than the GW 5K ES with SolarEdge transformer.

To each their own but there are choices which are easy to setup and wire.

 

[automatikdonn]

I find there are better choices out there for inverters other than the GW 5K ES with SolarEdge transformer.

To each their own but there are choices which are easy to setup and wire.

Depending on the end goals this is true to an extent. I find the GW5KES system to scale very well and the auto transformer setup is also scalable.

There are probably easier systems to work with.. but not many at this price point. If you want to spend the $$$ there is a lot out there.

 

[automatikdonn]

I just watched your video again and realized if the unit still charges it probably still uses the idle 60 watt/hr. Oh well, I will keep thinking about it.

So what happens when the solar outputting power is the unit will turn off.. so turning off the unit is probably not a great option. I didn't find this info out until I came back into the shop this morning.

 

[automatikdonn]

I 've gotten the same negative response from Signature Solar. They could sell $18K to $20K of solar to me based on them saying and advertise a lot of promises, but when you ask them to explain, they like to say DIY, just DIY. Their reputation is rapidly going into the toilet. So many people say "Just call Signature, they are so helpful". I HAVEN'T SEEN THEIR HELPFUL SIDE YET. I'm beginning to think the ones saying that are the ones getting paid by them. I've been wanting to order from them, but their not willing to help attitude is holding me back.

I am not being paid by anyone, but I did provide a diagram. DIY is a community effort in most cases. I find this in the software circles I work with as well. Unless you are going to pay someone for a push button system, you probably won't find any disti that will provide more than what the manufacturer ships.

Signature Solar is a disti (distributor), and until they start offering pro services I am not so sure it's reasonable to ask them for this kind of information. I know they are going through some growing pains as any growing business does.

I am still working my BOM and build video that should help clear a lot of this up for people. I am close, I just have this darn day job thing that keeps holding me up.

 

[ArkRob]

I am not being paid by anyone, but I did provide a diagram. DIY is a community effort in most cases. I find this in the software circles I work with as well. Unless you are going to pay someone for a push button system, you probably won't find any disti that will provide more than what the manufacturer ships.

Signature Solar is a disti (distributor), and until they start offering pro services I am not so sure it's reasonable to ask them for this kind of information. I know they are going through some growing pains as any growing business does.

I am still working my BOM and build video that should help clear a lot of this up for people. I am close, I just have this darn day job thing that keeps holding me up.

Tell them you have something important that needs to be done. I'm sure they will understand....

 

[automatikdonn]

Tell them you have something important that needs to be done. I'm sure they will understand....

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I'd like to remind everyone in this thread that if you have a breaker on your midpoint transformer and it trips, you will have a "lost" or "floating" neutral and your service panel will be feeding your 120V phases in series at 240V.

Depending on what you have running, your 120V appliances could be seeing 240V.

While not having the transformer on a breaker presents a small risk (sometimes a winding rubs through its insulation and contacts the case) a blown transformer is far cheaper to replace than half of your home's appliances going up in smoke.

I did manage to disassemble my transformer to have a look just for peace of mind.

Also, I went back-and-forth contemplating connecting the AC IN to my USA grid. Turns out you can just run the black and red hot legs to it without a problem, just use a breaker on your grid service panel to feed it.

Here's how I connected mine:

Keep your eyes open for a solution to this soon!

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I asked Signature Solar for some help with a wiring diagram for a very similar setup to this and this was their reply:

"We do not advise on wiring in the Tech department, due to different areas requiring different configurations depending on where you live. We recommend contacting a licensed electrician before altering any Grid power sources."

I find that amazing given that this should be diagrammed in detail by them since they are promoting the use of the Growatt 5K ES with the SolarEdge transformer and their lithium batteries. Great on paper, but without some instructions on how to set up the entire system, too risky for me to take on. I'm not even comfortable hiring an electrician. How do I know they know all the system implications to get this "right"? I would actually gladly pay Signature Solar for a couple of hours of consulting time and a wiring diagram. This response was received after trying to get any response from their tech department for over 2 weeks, btw.

Hey there Rick,

We have been absolutely doing our best to answer questions and helping customers, but with the way the year has gone as far as growth we know some things have fallen through the cracks. Making videos and diagrams with (general) setups is on the way as well as consultation services. We aren't quite 100% there yet but keep your eyes and ears open!

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I 've gotten the same negative response from Signature Solar. They could sell $18K to $20K of solar to me based on them saying and advertise a lot of promises, but when you ask them to explain, they like to say DIY, just DIY. Their reputation is rapidly going into the toilet. So many people say "Just call Signature, they are so helpful". I HAVEN'T SEEN THEIR HELPFUL SIDE YET. I'm beginning to think the ones saying that are the ones getting paid by them. I've been wanting to order from them, but their not willing to help attitude is holding me back.

Jim,

Hoping to change your mind on us with some help. We have experienced a huge influx of phone and email traffic and are doing our best to catch up. Unfortunately a few things have fallen through the cracks but we are doing our best to catch up. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help, and keep your eyes and ears open for some great new implementations we are making that will be a huge help to all the DIYers we do our best to be there for.

 

[Sun in Lithium]

So what happens when the solar outputting power is the unit will turn off.. so turning off the unit is probably not a great option. I didn't find this info out until I came back into the shop this morning.

Were you getting any solar the morning you checked?
When I turn my lvx6048 inverter off it goes to sleep when there is no solar power. And then wakes back up when it gets sufficiently power from the pv.

 

[Jim Lee]

Were you getting any solar the morning you checked?
When I turn my lvx6048 inverter off it goes to sleep when there is no solar power. And then wakes back up when it gets sufficiently power from the pv.

I'd like to hear more about this. (How the GW reacts to being shut off and no PV) Does it go to sleep or ??.

 

[Jim Lee]

I am not being paid by anyone, but I did provide a diagram. DIY is a community effort in most cases. I find this in the software circles I work with as well. Unless you are going to pay someone for a push button system, you probably won't find any disti that will provide more than what the manufacturer ships.

Signature Solar is a disti (distributor), and until they start offering pro services I am not so sure it's reasonable to ask them for this kind of information. I know they are going through some growing pains as any growing business does.

I am still working my BOM and build video that should help clear a lot of this up for people. I am close, I just have this darn day job thing that keeps holding me up.

I understand Sig Solar's situation and I trust your responses. I would love to hear a response to #58 comment about his inverters going to sleep and waking up when powered again. Would you be able to test that theory.