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SS EG4 12V 400AH - Disappointing BMS

Just saw your video. Travis will be in touch this afternoon. It absolutely looks to be a BMS issue, just need to figure out why it's behaving that way.

I received my 12V 400AH batteries within the last 30 days. Are they updated with the most current firmware?

I'm not able to find the LL version of the EG4 12V 400. It's odd because the website pic shows a EG4-LL 12V 400 but it doesn't look at all like the 24V or 48V with the display. Also, on the LL page (https://signaturesolar.com/shop-all/batteries/eg4-ll/) at SS there is no 12V option.View attachment 121159

They say LifePower4 under the EG but, yes, I received 4 as shown.
 

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The Victron Phoenix 12V is what they have been using lately
From my understanding the Victorn Phoenix is a hybrid design, not high or low, and has a toroidal transformer that isn't able to absorb the surge load that the Victron Multiplex and Magnum inverters can.

Has the new firmware been tested on a low frequency inverter?
 
I received my 12V 400AH batteries within the last 30 days. Are they updated with the most current firmware?



They say LifePower4 under the EG but, yes, I received 4 as shown.
That's really odd. Why do they show LL when they clearly are not? @BenFromSignatureSolar
It's also concerning that this firmware issue was supposedly corrected months ago but @dwertz is still having issues as recent as 7 days ago per his video below (not sure when he purchased though).
Darn shame as I was just about to pull the trigger on 2 or 3 of these.
 
That's really odd. Why do they show LL when they clearly are not? @BenFromSignatureSolar
It's also concerning that this firmware issue was supposedly corrected months ago but @dwertz is still having issues as recent as 7 days ago per his video below (not sure when he purchased though).
Darn shame as I was just about to pull the trigger on 2 or 3 of these.
The 12V hasn't changed it's design from the original. All the batteries used to look like that until we rebranded the 24 and 48 into Lifepower4 and LL
 
but @dwertz is still having issues as recent as 7 days ago per his video below (not sure when he purchased though).
I ordered them on October 11th and received them around the 1st of Nov. I have been trying to get my issues resolved since the 3rd of Nov.

That is Aaron Hunley's video, not mine.
 
That's really odd. Why do they show LL when they clearly are not? @BenFromSignatureSolar
It's also concerning that this firmware issue was supposedly corrected months ago but @dwertz is still having issues as recent as 7 days ago per his video below (not sure when he purchased though).
Darn shame as I was just about to pull the trigger on 2 or 3 of these.
Yep... only one option available in the 12v 400ah.

$6000 for 1600ah is still an amazing deal. 4 of them will push my Magnum MSH3012 to almost 4000 watts without so much as a flicker from the 12v LED lights.
 

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From my understanding the Victorn Phoenix is a hybrid design, not high or low, and has a toroidal transformer that isn't able to absorb the surge load that the Victron Multiplex and Magnum inverters can.

Has the new firmware been tested on a low frequency inverter?
I'll follow up with the R&D team to see the results
 
I ordered them on October 11th and received them around the 1st of Nov. I have been trying to get my issues resolved since the 3rd of Nov.

That is Aaron Hunley's video, not mine.

If I was going to turn them off, which I probably never will, I would just use a battery disconnect and a momentary switch with a pre-charge resistor.

Open disconnect switch... turn on EG4s... hold pre-charge switch for 10 seconds... close disconnect... Bob's your Uncle.

Considering they are fine down to -4 degrees and have a ridiculous cycle life, I'm just going to leave mine on and running my residential refrigerator. When they get down to 20% or less I'll plug them in to charge for a day or two.
 
There are 2 things I kept having to remind myself of when I was working through my issues...
  1. They are not RV batteries.
  2. They cost a fraction per AH of a LifeP04 battery that is made for an RV.
I spent $6100 DELIVERED for 1600AH of 12v LifeP04 storage!!!!

I'm assuming they were designed to run high frequency residential inverters, not low frequency RV inverters. In a low frequency inverter application, we will either have to leave them on or pre-charge the inverter(s) each time.

Once they are up and running, you'll likely also experience a failure going from charge (generator or shore power) to inverting. Even with 4 of them and the latest/greatest firmware, the BMS can't handle going from a substantial charge current to an inverter load. In my situation (stored under cover) I have to either switch charging off or start and idle the engine to support the inverter with DC/DC from the alternator/chassis batteries before unplugging from shore power or shutting down my generator.
 
There are 2 things I kept having to remind myself of when I was working through my issues...
  1. They are not RV batteries.
  2. They cost a fraction per AH of a LifeP04 battery that is made for an RV.

What makes a LifePo4 battery specific to an RV?
 
What makes a LifePo4 battery specific to an RV?
Sorry if this sounds flippant or snarky but I've had a couple adult beverages.... so ... here it goes...

Design? Intended application? Name?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say... If it has an On/Off switch, it wasn't intended to be used in an "automotive" application.

au·to·mo·tive
adjective
1.relating to or concerned with motor vehicles.

Logic tells me that a server rack battery is designed to be in a server rack. A server rack typically resides in a server room. A server room is typically in a data center. I'd venture to say that the BMS was designed to be coupled with a large number of other BMS's(?) to support multiple high frequency inverters to provide uninterrupted power to delicate electronics in the event of a power outage... Little to no surge, no vibration, controlled climate, etc.

My application has huge surges, lots of vibration, and extreme temperatures. I applaud SignatureSolar for their efforts to make these "energy storage devices" do what they weren't designed to do.

I bought the EG4 server rack batteries because I was looking for the best bang for the buck ($3.75 per AH). If I wanted plug-and-play, "grab some jumper cables and welding rods and let's get this rig back on the trail", I would have filed for divorce and paid $8.80 per AH for BattleBorn and made my Inverter/Charger the weak link... but I didn't.

EG4 makes a "WP" battery that is designed to be used in a motor vehicle. If you buy 4 of them, you'll get 400ah at 12v at a cost of $2200 ($5.50 per AH) and have a combined BMS capability of 400 amps when run in parallel. I'd be willing to bet 16 of them would easily start my inverter, but $8800 and all the space and cable to connect them was not desirable to me.

SOK has an amazing product but, purely for self preservation, they don't even offer a 12v server rack battery.

I could go on and on but, I digress...

... sorry again :-(
 
I decided just the opposite and chose these because the cells were welded and inside a strong metal container because I was going to use them in an RV.

Not sure why a power switch suddenly disqualifies them for "automotive" use.
I've got (3) of the packs connected to (2) Magnum 2812 inverters, and they work.
 
I decided just the opposite and chose these because the cells were welded and inside a strong metal container because I was going to use them in an RV.

Not sure why a power switch suddenly disqualifies them for "automotive" use.
I've got (3) of the packs connected to (2) Magnum 2812 inverters, and they work.
jberger... that's the same reasoning I used but you can't ignore the common denominator.

A power switch doesn't disqualify them but I'm not aware of an automotive application where the battery has one. In all the automotive applications I'm aware of a fuse, fuseable link, or breaker is used as a disconnect the power source in the event of a load that exceeds a batteries capacity (or circuit's capacity) to handle it. I've also never seen a lithium battery in an automotive starting application where it has to go from idle to a very large surge, similar to a low frequency inverter start-up surge.

Mine work also... and I'm planning to add a second MSH3012 to support the other 1/2 of my load center.
 
Sorry if this sounds flippant or snarky but I've had a couple adult beverages.... so ... here it goes...

Design? Intended application? Name?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say... If it has an On/Off switch, it wasn't intended to be used in an "automotive" application.

au·to·mo·tive
adjective
1.relating to or concerned with motor vehicles.

Logic tells me that a server rack battery is designed to be in a server rack. A server rack typically resides in a server room. A server room is typically in a data center. I'd venture to say that the BMS was designed to be coupled with a large number of other BMS's(?) to support multiple high frequency inverters to provide uninterrupted power to delicate electronics in the event of a power outage... Little to no surge, no vibration, controlled climate, etc.

My application has huge surges, lots of vibration, and extreme temperatures. I applaud SignatureSolar for their efforts to make these "energy storage devices" do what they weren't designed to do.

I bought the EG4 server rack batteries because I was looking for the best bang for the buck ($3.75 per AH). If I wanted plug-and-play, "grab some jumper cables and welding rods and let's get this rig back on the trail", I would have filed for divorce and paid $8.80 per AH for BattleBorn and made my Inverter/Charger the weak link... but I didn't.

EG4 makes a "WP" battery that is designed to be used in a motor vehicle. If you buy 4 of them, you'll get 400ah at 12v at a cost of $2200 ($5.50 per AH) and have a combined BMS capability of 400 amps when run in parallel. I'd be willing to bet 16 of them would easily start my inverter, but $8800 and all the space and cable to connect them was not desirable to me.

SOK has an amazing product but, purely for self preservation, they don't even offer a 12v server rack battery.

I could go on and on but, I digress...

... sorry again :-(
Not snarky at all, no worries.

Would you consider these RV specific?

 
Not snarky at all, no worries.

Would you consider these RV specific?

Yes I would. They are advertised as a drop in replacement for an 8D RV battery and ,from what I've read, they have a very robust BMS. To be honest, they were at the top of my list but, for some reason, the 400AH wasn't available for quite a while and I lost interest.
 
To buss bar or not to buss bar; that is the question.

I built buss bars with central connections for the inverter/charger but am concerned about the stress it may put on the EG4 battery terminals.

The buss bar is 3/8" thick and 1" wide and the cables are 2/0.

Leave it alone?
 

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