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Stuck on Pack Design - Help Please?

David01

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Joined
Jan 16, 2021
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Hi, I'll try to make this brief, but please do ask if you need more details.

I'm building a portable battery pack that I can take camping and/or provide emergency backup power to a select few circuits in my house in a grid outage.

I designed everything on paper first and did all my load calculations and wiring diagrams before starting, but I've ran into an issue with wiring the cells. I'm at the point where I don't know if I should redesign everything to get around the issue, or settle for a tedious solution. I'm already $3K into the build and have purchased nearly everything, so redesigning at this point would be quite expensive. However, safety is my number one priority and I will do whatever it takes to build a safe and reliable battery.

The battery will be composed of a total of 504 brand new Samsung INR18650-35E cells in a 36P 14S configuration using honeycomb cell holders. My goal is to be able to put out up to 30A at 120V, and I've calculated that this would be a C-rate of 0.69 on each individual cell. I also want to retain the ability to increase the inverter size in the future to upgrade the battery output, so I am over-engineering the wiring to handle loads up to 70A @ 120V which, on the DC side of things, would present about a 200A load to the battery. I have chosen to use properly sized copper bus bars to handle the cell connections and 18 AWG wire to connect each cell to the bus bar. Here is a photo of my bus bar assembly on one string of cells. I made 14 of these bus bar assemblies that will sit on top of every string of cells in the pack, but only one is shown in the picture below:

20201217_134523.jpg

I am soldering a short piece of wire to each cell (using the correct technique with a high power soldering gun to get in and out as quick as possible).

20201222_133134.jpg

I then place the copper bus bar assembly so that I can fold the wires over it, in hopes of soldering them to the bus bar:

20210102_213928.jpg

(The wires will be trimmed to length and the entire bus bar assembly will be Kapton taped off and/or or covered with a 3D printed ABS cover - this is just a test fit).

Now, the issue is, I cannot, for the life of me, get solder to melt on the copper bus bars using my Weller 240W gun. They just soak up too much heat. The photo above shows the bar tinned with a bead of solder which is one strategy I tried to get this to work. I built the bus bar assemblies with a torch and also tinned the bars with a torch, but obviously I can't use that on the battery itself.

The other idea is to drill and tap holes in the bus bars to attach the wires, either directly with a screw, or with a second, thinner piece of copper bar that I can use as a clamp to sandwich the wires between. I'm not fond of either of these ideas because I'm worried something will loosen up over time as the pack heats/cools.

I really don't know how else to move forward. I am open to all feedback and ideas. Please let me know your thoughts!
 
You should pause your work and do some additional study. Look at this Youtube channel. They guy has been building 18650 packs for years and is pretty down to earth. His bus bars and fusing look pretty easy and clean.
 
Thanks! I've actually been watching him lately and have been really impressed by his builds and content. He does make some very clean looking stuff - it was his twisted wire bus that actually gave me the idea to implement copper bus bars.
 
If you have been watching his videos, I hope you have seen some of the recent ones where he tracks down cells that are "Heaters". Those are failing cells, failing from long time in service. New cells would not be as likely to have a bad cell. But what I am concerned about (planning a 18650 build of my own) is a way to cut into and replace a bad or weak cell if you need to. I don't want to have a giant pack that I have to break all apart to fix one cell. I am thinking about several smaller "bricks" but I have not settled on exactly what I will do, yet.
 
Have you seen these connection strips? I have a spot welder, which works nice with those strips. Again smaller bricks of cells with those strips and then join bricks on a heavier wiring bus is what I have in mind. What I am using is more like these.
 
Hey thanks for your input. I originally started my project with some used cells that I had to extract from old modem packs. After extracting 550 cells and running each one through capacity tests, I decided to buy brand new cells, specifically for the increase in longevity and the higher capacity/output compared to the used cells I had just spent so much time preparing. I am counting on not needing to troubleshoot or replace a cell in the battery for a long while.

And yes, I am aware the nickel strips. I had some custom manufactured specifically for my build before deciding to over-engineer it to support higher amperage. The nickel strips - especially the nickel plated steel strips that you linked - won't be able to handle the amount of current in my design.
 
Ok, so I think I've come up with something. I believe I can use 0.2mm nickel strip for my parallel connections. The load on each cell should never exceed 2.6A continuous with my initial inverter. However, as I mentioned earlier, I am over engineering to support upgrading to a larger inverter in the future, and if I upgrade, it would be to an inverter that can pull as much as 5.6A continuous on each cell.

The current carrying capacity of 0.2mm thick x 7mm wide nickel strip is calculated at 5.7A according to this table.

Everything seems to check out well for the parallel connections, but the series connections is where it gets serious. With my initial inverter, the series connections will need to handle up to ~87A. If I upgrade the inverter in the future, the series connections will need to handle up to ~200A.

I am thinking of using the thick copper material I already have to beef up the ends of the nickel strip for the series connections, similar to what the guy did in this post:

What I honestly don't quite understand right now is if the copper bus bar is going to handle up to 200A, doesn't that mean the nickel strip needs to too, at least right where the copper bar connects to the nickel?

Here's an example of what I'm thinking using some 0.15mm nickel strip and a spare copper piece I had on hand:

20210118_180617.jpg

I would add another series connection to the other side of the pack (at the far left of the strip outside the view of the picture, and I would like to add another one halfway through the pack to provide multiple paths for current to flow.

I don't think this is okay to do because my understanding is that the nickel strip will still see the full amount of current between the copper bar and the first couple of cells. I can reduce this by adding additional series connections between the two rows, but even still, that would be quite a lot of current.

Does anyone have any feedback on this approach to series connections?
 
Hey thanks for your input. I originally started my project with some used cells that I had to extract from old modem packs. After extracting 550 cells and running each one through capacity tests, I decided to buy brand new cells, specifically for the increase in longevity and the higher capacity/output compared to the used cells I had just spent so much time preparing. I am counting on not needing to troubleshoot or replace a cell in the battery for a long while.

And yes, I am aware the nickel strips. I had some custom manufactured specifically for my build before deciding to over-engineer it to support higher amperage. The nickel strips - especially the nickel plated steel strips that you linked - won't be able to handle the amount of current in my design.
I haven't done anything with those type cells but remember you can also use multiple layers of nickel strips .
 
And you can use wider nickle strips as well. Copper carries more current but nickel can be spot welded with a $20 welder and a car battery.
 
Remember… 18650’s are the explody type, so engineering a fuse is wise.
Why are you building this? I would use the fused strip, and spot weld an entire strip for the series path.
 
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