Sunfunkits show their true color

[upnorthandpersonal]

Define "Grade A". I have EV grade EVE cells (105Ah ones) directly from EVE.

 

[Kornbread]

Define "Grade A". I have EV grade EVE cells (105Ah ones) directly from EVE.

Sure?

I know we are all aware of this long winded thread https://diysolarforum.com/threads/e...-marking-method-reposting-from-general.40411/ and other similar threads. With ev batteries in short supply and sky high demand ... how many EV grade cells are readily available to the common diy'er? Are "grade A" and EV grade different since Eve appears to say they are either EV grade, or grade B. What is "grade A"?

 

[Alkaline]

Grade A typically referred to cells with test report. Sure you can say its a made up term. I suppose one can go around saying Reject Auctioned Off Grade vs. Deemed Ok To Sell by Manufacturer (Even though this is China so can you really trust them) Grade ?

 

[Horsefly]

Grade A typically referred to cells with test report. Sure you can say its a made up term.

I do believe that "grade A" in LiFePO4 cells is a made up term. As such, it can mean 50 different things to 50 different people. The companies making the cells don't use the term, so anyone can define it anyway they want. @Alkaline has his made up definition, but all the brokers who are selling cells that have - for whatever reason - not made the cut as EV cells are using their own definition, and no one can claim that they are wrong.

I'm not meaning to bash anyone buying cells or any broker selling cells. I just am saying it is the wild west out there, and using terms like grade A vs grade B doesn't tame it. My guess is you can manage to get good cells from a vendor one day, and may get bad cells the next day. Neither batch had anything to do with whatever grade system you want to apply.

 

[Alkaline]

Sure but this is semantics at this point, lets just say grade A = cells with manufacturer test report is generally what most people assume... Again not set in stone.

So so cells sold with manufacturer test report don't have these issues: "vendor one day, and may get bad cells the next day. Neither batch had anything to do with whatever grade system you want to apply."

Even the worst cells with test report still pass WH test as in the 280K and still perfectly usable, the other types like 304 cells with test report perform very well.

Ruipi Rep 280 with test report is also extremely impressive, the highest AH rating I have seen in the 280 class (and actually tests to).

 

[Just John]

Who on this forum has bought "grade A" LiFePo4 cells?

I have. I've also purchased "grade B".

 

[42OhmsPA]

I've bought 32 cells, from Docan. I'm going to buy more cells, from 18650 or Docan. I'll buy more cells after that too. None of the cells I buy will be cells that SFK sells.
If Sussie was from selling cells from the C Shore, I might try them out too. Maybe I'll even buy from Amy based off great feedback from Steve and others.

I followed along with the RBCS V SFK fiasco, that was the icing on the cake for me to never deal with them. I was already hesitant after reading threads here well before the RBCS fiasco.

 

[Sam Cho TX]

Anyone can buy from whoever they like, but you and others on this thread are endlessly bashing a company you never ever had ever intentions of dealing with but continue bashing anyway, and the moderator is fully supporting this dispite it against forum rules. SFK delivered exactly what they say and and they matched the labels as far as I'm concerned, and I would recommend them to anyone as well but apparently this is grounds for mauling.

Docan has been exposed as a company selling cells with counterfeit qr codes, bad test results, but everyone is ok as long as the price is low. I would not trust anyone vouching for them or continuing to support such an operation and this includes RBCS.

42OhmsPA good for you, but you should call 18650store, they have been banned form this site as well, probably because of Docan related things (James at 18650 hinted this as much).

This community seems nice but a few bad actors are the shot callers, and if you disagree with the status quo they will attack you. Disappointing.

 

[Alkaline]

chris@18650batterystore user seems to be banned and yes he did brought up the CATL fake qr code issue with Docan, it was in the Docan good bad ugly thread.

 

[Horsefly]

Anyone can buy from whoever they like, but you and others on this thread are endlessly bashing a company you never ever had ever intentions of dealing with but continue bashing anyway, and the moderator is fully supporting this dispite it against forum rules. SFK delivered exactly what they say and and they matched the labels as far as I'm concerned, and I would recommend them to anyone as well but apparently this is grounds for mauling.

If you've read this entire thread, I would have thought you recognized that the bashing that SFK has received here is because of their behavior, but somehow you don't address that. At this point I think it may very well be that you work for them. If that's the case, then THAT is against the rules.

Let's just assume you don't work for them. You are welcome to buy from them, and you should be glad you have found someone you are happy with. There is just no logical reason you would spend as much of your time defending them, posting stuff about Ray (without any real justification).

By the way: You seem to bash Docan quite a bit. Have you ever bought anything from them? If not, seems you are not living up to your own standard.

 

[Just John]

I decided to read through this entire thread starting with the OP post downward. Surely I would find people that have 280K from sfk or other products and have gotten bad cells... Yet I did not read a single post... Nothing regarding the 280ks, or any other cell or kit, nothing from any sfk customer complaining about poor products or service. Instead every post reads like an emotional outburst: “Yeah! Let's stick it to SFK!”. These should be taken as hyperbole at best as they lack substance or backing with evidence.

My take (and it's worth what you paid for it, nothing):
EVE changed formulation (or something) and claims 6,000 cycles on their 280AH cells, that previously had been rated for 3,000 cycles.
Lots of people bought their newer 280K cells and reported not meeting amp hour capacity tests, even the cells that came with test reports.
SFK was purchasing these cells, and pretty much taking at face value that the cells were superior since they were purchasing them with test reports (they said same source as Luyan, which is where I buy my cells from). The cells seemingly meet watt hour claims. If you convert the watt hour results to amp hours using a "normalized voltage" then you do get the results that the test reports claim. But if you measure in amp hours alone, they fall short. EVE doesn't make this clear, so there is indeed lots of confusion since EVE doesn't detail or make public their testing methodology. SFK sent Ray a kit including cells to review. Ray tested (like most of us, certainly myself) using a 40 amp charge/discharge tester, and got results that had fewer than 280 amp hours (I didn't check, but it seems likely watt hours capacity were met). Multiple source reported the same results with the then new 280K cells from EVE, including the ones sold by Luyan (who I know purchases directly from EVE). I will also note that the 280K is specifically targeted toward solar storage, not the EV market. EV grade cells are what people refer to as "grade A".

Anyway, apparently words were said between SFK and Ray. I'm not privy to the details, but I can see it from both sides. SFK = we sent premium quality cells, and you said they were no good. Ray = I tested the way I test all cells, and they didn't reach the stated amp hour capacity. I'm not sure if a threat to DOX was made, but it certainly seems like they had a heated exchange, and SFK thought Ray may have deliberately tested wrong, or something like that. My take is that EVE changed the cells, and doesn't tell us exactly how the results are interpreted, so plenty of room for confusion, and certainly neither Ray or SFK is responsible for the test results.

1. SFK should have tested the cells before they send them out for review. They should also clearly explain testing methodology so that no "interpretation" is necessary (really, "normalized voltage" is not a clearly defined term, that is an EVE problem).

2. Ray tested (I think) in good faith and reported results.

I then did a google search on sun fun kits reviews and these results appeared:

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/sun-fun-kits-guy-has-no-clue.39844/

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/is-there-bad-blood-between-diysolar-and-sunfunkits.41291/

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/cell-drift-in-commercial-batteries.34231/#post-425262

@Alkaline collected a lot of results from testing 280k cells here:

EVE LF280k Vs 304

Considering just "Grade A" cells (whatever that really means) from NKON or Luyuan, why choose one over the other? (no horror stories, just facts, please, like # of cycles, costs, etc) Thinking about a second battery bank (first being LF280k, still not assembled) for mobile application...

diysolarforum.com

All these posts transpired before the Ray review; seems to me there was significant tension here well before this thread and the Ray review was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

If I had to guess 9/10 people buy grade B cells here and no one likes to be told what they have is bad which Sun Fun Kits does routinely. So this thread is more of retaliation against Sun fun kit’s opinions rather than a review of them as a vendor or their products. If you view the facts instead of relying on your emotions it paints a very different picture.

I speak as a customer with first hand knowledge of dealing with Dwayne and Patrick and would like to hear from anyone else who has ACTUALLY dealt with sun fun kits instead of hearsay which is what majority of the posts on this thread is. If you had an actual bad experience with them, let's hear it, post like horsefly above are childish banter that do nothing, btw you should take your own advice as far as I'm concerned.

I personally have never purchased cells from SFK. I have purchased EVE 280AH (prior to the K remake) as grade B from Xuba, and the lowest result I got was 264AH. Of the 16 I purchased, it was obvious that 4 had been fully charged and then sat on the shelf for more than a year without any discharge. These 4 cells measured the lowest capacity, all of the others measured around 274 to 280.

Since then, I have ordered both the 304AH EVE cells, and the 105AH from Luyan (yes, they cost more, but really, they just work). There is a noticeable difference in how they perform at a pack level, no active balancer needed. Top balance once and be done. All of the 304 and 105 cells measured above the rated capacity, although less than the test reports said. I'm sure if I "normalized" the voltage and used the actual watt hours from testing, I'd have matched the results from the test reports. It would be nice if EVE explained/published how they come up with these numbers, it would avoid a lot of confusion. SFK has never done a good job of explaining "normalized voltage", although their video in the past week or so on the REPT cells finally explained it so I could understand.

Anyway, my only complaint from 8 battery cases purchased from SFK is that one was shipped without the 4 screws that hold the lid on. I'm actually quite pleased with their products that I've purchased (but I've never purchased their cells or BMS). Still waiting on the 4 screws, certainly one would think they could just slip them in an envelope and send them, but that is the only complaint I have.

I think it is pretty obvious that words were exchanged between Ray and SFK. I think it is pretty obvious that it could/should have been handled better. Grade B cells require more work (perhaps an active balancer), and grade A cells "just work" for me. I'm happier knowing they are cells that pass whatever tests are required by the Chinese government, rather than knowing they failed. Grade B cells are certainly more cost effective.

I despise vendors who remove original QR codes, create their own, and sell them as "grade A". You know they lied, what else will they lie about?

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

endlessly bashing a company you never ever had ever intentions of dealing with but continue bashing anyway, and the moderator is fully supporting this dispite it against forum rules.

First of all, as I said, I do have cells from SFK - tested for a third party. Secondly, pointing out that the labels do not match the advertised capacity test (and pointing out the 'divide by 3.2V' thing) is not bashing.

Then, the thing I have the most issues with is illustrated in the attached comment thread taken from that video you posted. Not just the incorrectness of it, but the holier than thou tone of it. As an electrical engineer and someone who consults battery manufactures, the whole 'divide the Wh by nominal voltage' is not correct (it is only correct in a very specific condition), and if EVE are telling them this EVE is either covering up something, not giving them the specific condition, flat out lying, or it never happened. The Wh number is perfectly fine to use, but if you measure the Ah with a tester, and it doesn't match the label, it's an issue with what's on the label.

All this, by the way, came into being after EVE had issues with their LF280k cell not matching performance. So do I doubt that EVE could comes up with something like this to hide some inconsistencies: absolutely not. SFK might very well be the victim here as well of this whole debacle. But they could handle it better in their communications and listen to engineers who have experience with it, not just dismiss it as 'being lead astray because of the YouTube mindset'.

chris@18650batterystore user seems to be banned and yes he did brought up the CATL fake qr code issue with Docan, it was in the Docan good bad ugly thread.

And so have all other vendors during the great vendor purge, including reps from Docan, Luyuan, SFK, and many, many more.

 

[Quattrohead]

And so have all other vendors during the great vendor purge, including reps from Docan, Luyuan, SFK, and many, many more.

I personally think this is a shame because some of them engaged in good technical conversations. Probably more the USA based companies.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I personally think this is a shame because some of them engaged in good technical conversations. Probably more the USA based companies.

It was Will's decision, we debated that, but ultimately the decision was made. We are essentially three people keeping this forum going and under control. That means some hard and possibly (perceived or otherwise) unfair decisions are made at times to keep our sanity.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I wish I had an infinite wallet. I'd purchase 16 cells from every reseller mentioned in this thread, as well as the OEM, and have them tested by a 3rd party certified lab.
I'd purchase from the ones that offered the best value for the money.

Full disclosure I've only purchased LF230s from Docan and I've had zero issues, besides the need to redo the top balance on pack 1; this is my fault for being impatient and rushing things. They are fine up to 99% capacity anyway.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I've got cells (either directly bought by me, or from a third party) from Luyuan, SFK, EVE directly, Docan, CATL directly, CATL from Alibaba, EVE cells from Shenzen Haomi (long gone), QSO, Winston/Thundersky cells, Lishen from Alibaba, REPT cells from somewhere, and quite a few more.

Are they all equally good: no. Would I use any of them for an EV: no. Are they all fine for solar energy storage applications? Pretty much, except some very bad ones from some Aliexpress vendors, and Lishen cells tend to leak when you put them on the side...

There is a reason why second life storage is a thing for grid storage applications even with degraded cells.

 

[Alkaline]

You should make a post showing the results. ?

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

You should make a post showing the results. ?

I might very well do that if I find the time.

 

[Kornbread]

Anyone can buy from whoever they like, but you and others on this thread are endlessly bashing a company you never ever had ever intentions of dealing with but continue bashing anyway, and the moderator is fully supporting this dispite it against forum rules. SFK delivered exactly what they say and and they matched the labels as far as I'm concerned, and I would recommend them to anyone as well but apparently this is grounds for mauling.

Docan has been exposed as a company selling cells with counterfeit qr codes, bad test results, but everyone is ok as long as the price is low. I would not trust anyone vouching for them or continuing to support such an operation and this includes RBCS.

42OhmsPA good for you, but you should call 18650store, they have been banned form this site as well, probably because of Docan related things (James at 18650 hinted this as much).

This community seems nice but a few bad actors are the shot callers, and if you disagree with the status quo they will attack you. Disappointing.

IIRC, Docan and 18650 never threatened to blackmail anyone.

 

[Sam Cho TX]

Claims who? Show me proof of what you are saying besides Ray's own claims. I owned a Taco truck for 13 years, cops were my regulars, I saw kids do extremely stupid shit, knocking out windshields with potato guns, pumpkin rolling, cow tipping… you name it I have seen it, slaps on writs that is all they got. This guy’s story about swiping a cassette tape at 17…doubtful.

I wasn’t able to see SFK’s response video but it sounds like SFK threatened him with a lawsuit and then Ray made a video claiming he botched his test:

more than likely his arrest records came into the picture then.

You know the first post I made here https://diysolarforum.com/threads/sunfunkits-show-their-true-color.44653/post-675199 I was shocked at Sun Fun Kits! Damn I got scammed by these people and all the theatrics they go on and on about grade A vs grade B they was just a bunch of bull…Typical scammers I hope they go under (Even though I really really liked the v3.5 kit I have from them).

At that time they had some small-time youtubers posting glowing reviews back then, but no one established; soon though, review after review started appearing and a good amount of people testing SFK products… All passing … Hrm…I thought their cells were bad and they were scammers. What is up with this? Finally, Andy reviewed their cells and they passed as well, albeit not with such fan fare, certainly not junk as the word on the street was.

Intrigued but cautious; I ordered 304’s from them during their sale and tested them, these were with a ZKE-40 tester by myself:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/new-toys-arrived.56015/

I got attacked on my thread the whole time. I'm wondering wtf did I do? Despite the fact I got well above rated capacity of 316 AH on a 304 AH cell according to the ZKE-40! All everyone could say is I got scammed!

Average Joe posted his review, ohh look passed again, actually a very detailed review and some of the highest results I have seen on this forum 298 AH on a 280AH rated cell…

But what about the SFK 280k? Yes, what about it? It's a 280AH cell on its best day and that is all you can get from it. Andy just tested brand new ones made in November 2022 from another company selling certified automotive grade:

Gee wow 279AH….must be scam cells too…

Meanwhile, the docan 280K cells test in the 260AH range for everyone else along with fake qr codes and all the usual Chinese tricks. Apparently the ones Ray gets are special, all of the hundreds of grade B he has are 280 and above… This is what you guys hang your hat on.

I don’t know if he sells the wood cart batteries he makes or what, but what exactly was this guy up to? Trying to show his customer his docan cells were as good or better than certified cells?

I’m so done with this guy and his constant smiling; so unsettling, people like this are passive aggressive and spiteful and as far as I’m concerned his whole story has fallen apart.

I got a call from Dwayne from Sfk asking me to stop posting on Diysolarforum as a favor, they told me they would harass me, call me an sfk employee, and ultimately ban me. So far 2/3 things ring true and the third one is probably on the way. Seems to be a common occurrence here:

Sun Fun Kits guy has no clue

So I stumbled upon this gem. This Sun Fun Kits guy uses electronic load in constant power mode (!) without V-sense leads (!!) and tried to compare LFP cells. I tried arguing for using Vsense and constant current mode but this guy is adamant. No wonder why battery manufacturers do not deal with...

diysolarforum.com

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/h...-disconnect-from-sunfunkits.55287/post-716393

And btw, I have my own docan experience; before I bought 304’s from sfk. I went to pick up cells from their store in Houston. It was a big warehouse, they probably had like 100,000 cells there. It's clear they move a ton of product. I met with Tom and Cloe; let's just say it didn’t go to plan and Tom basically tried to upsell me on some Easy Zeal brand instead (looks like a bunch of Chinese companies share this warehouse)…I would get into the details with Amy Zheng and all that transpired before but that would be another time, another thread… assuming I haven’t been booted off here because I refuse to go with the status quo…

I think you all need to get off your high horse and admit you got this one wrong.