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Sunfunkits show their true color

So how do we know server rack batteries use Grade A cells? Is that battery segment trustworthy?
It's not an easy question to answer - but as a rule of thumb if you stick with companies which have established a good reputation for customer service and for whom their products have been tested as being consistently reliable then you are less likely to run into issues, and if you do have a problem then the company will work with you to correct it without hesitation rather than jerk you around.

Frankly the customer service ethic is what matters most. Sorting out who is who in this customer service zoo isn't always easy and forums are but one source of information - there are others but being able to discern when there is unhelpful bias in the information presented isn't always an easy skill.

As to batteries, "Grade A" is a meaningless term, or IOW "Grade A" is whatever the company sells it says it is. Consider it an advertising/marketing term, like you might see on the label of a product in a supermarket when they call something "Premium" when in reality it's no different to the cheaper brand next to it, just wrapped in prettier packaging.

Focus on the written specifications of what you are buying, not on the marketing labels attached to them.
 
It's not an easy question to answer - but as a rule of thumb if you stick with companies which have established a good reputation for customer service and for whom their products have been tested as being consistently reliable then you are less likely to run into issues, and if you do have a problem then the company will work with you to correct it without hesitation rather than jerk you around.

Frankly the customer service ethic is what matters most. Sorting out who is who in this customer service zoo isn't always easy and forums are but one source of information - there are others but being able to discern when there is unhelpful bias in the information presented isn't always an easy skill.

As to batteries, "Grade A" is a meaningless term, or IOW "Grade A" is whatever the company sells it says it is. Consider it an advertising/marketing term, like you might see on the label of a product in a supermarket when they call something "Premium" when in reality it's no different to the cheaper brand next to it, just wrapped in prettier packaging.

Focus on the written specifications of what you are buying, not on the marketing labels attached to them.

None of the companies selling $300/kWh server rack batteries has been around for more than a half dozen years. There is no guarantee any of them will be around half a dozen years from now. I don't believe server rack batteries have been around more than 2 years, perhaps, so there is very little track record.

Lot of folks say server rack batteries are so easy, but who the hell knows what will happen to these packs after 5 calendar years and/or 1500 cycles. If EG4, SOK, Pytes batteries began failing at double-digit percentages, I'm not sure if any of those retailers would be able to stay in business. The cost of warranty replacement could easily bankrupt them. This is all speculation on my part. I would venture to guess solar retailers are working on thin margins and aren't sitting on tons of free cash.

Please know I'm not trying to being critical of the companies that frequent these forums. I honestly wish them the best. Conversely, I believe open dialogue helps the consumer.
 
None of the companies selling $300/kWh server rack batteries has been around for more than a half dozen years. There is no guarantee any of them will be around half a dozen years from now. I don't believe server rack batteries have been around more than 2 years, perhaps, so there is very little track record.
Six years is usually long enough to get a reasonable indictor of how a company treats its customers. If they introduce a new product some years down the track and they have built trust in their service standards before then, it is at least an indicator of how they will support the new product. It's no guarantee of course, just on the balance of probabilities you at least know what their service ethic has been like.

But when you go for the cheapest you can find, inevitably corners are cut. It may not actually be in the product itself (although it can be of course), but in the manner in which they service customers, or lack of after sales support.

Some good companies go bad - a change in leadership or ownership can change the culture.

I'm weighing up these factors now with my choice of next inverter. I have the option of two which, on the basis of published specifications, are all but identical units. But specs can be achieved with lower quality components - in that case it can be one is built to last longer.

One has a local operation and known backup and warranty service and support, the other has a less than stellar reputation and no local support. The latter unit is $800+ / 30% cheaper. The units from each are highly likely to perform equally well, but what if something does go awry? Is the premium worth it? It's a subjective assessment.

People like Will Prowse get these batteries and pull them apart. That helps us to see the build quality and what cells are used. Those can at least be checked with the QR codes.

If you want to avoid all this, then go with a big well known brand installed by professionals. Tesla, Sonnen, LG etc. but expect to pay 3 times the price. This is a DIY forum, the nature of that generally means people are looking to get greater kWh for their buck but as a result there is additional risk involved.
 
So how do you research to find out what you believe it true? If we cannot trust YouTubers, then why listen to them?
How do I trust? I don't. Over time, I watch, listen, read, and use my own experience to determine what is right. In the end, I make the choice that works for me. When something goes wrong, I blame myself.
 
Six years is usually long enough to get a reasonable indictor of how a company treats its customers. If they introduce a new product some years down the track and they have built trust in their service standards before then, it is at least an indicator of how they will support the new product. It's no guarantee of course, just on the balance of probabilities you at least know what their service ethic has been like.

But when you go for the cheapest you can find, inevitably corners are cut. It may not actually be in the product itself (although it can be of course), but in the manner in which they service customers, or lack of after sales support.

Some good companies go bad - a change in leadership or ownership can change the culture.

I'm weighing up these factors now with my choice of next inverter. I have the option of two which, on the basis of published specifications, are all but identical units. But specs can be achieved with lower quality components - in that case it can be one is built to last longer.

One has a local operation and known backup and warranty service and support, the other has a less than stellar reputation and no local support. The latter unit is $800+ / 30% cheaper. The units from each are highly likely to perform equally well, but what if something does go awry? Is the premium worth it? It's a subjective assessment.

People like Will Prowse get these batteries and pull them apart. That helps us to see the build quality and what cells are used. Those can at least be checked with the QR codes.

If you want to avoid all this, then go with a big well known brand installed by professionals. Tesla, Sonnen, LG etc. but expect to pay 3 times the price. This is a DIY forum, the nature of that generally means people are looking to get greater kWh for their buck but as a result there is additional risk involved.
Tesla isnt without issues, just sayin......
 
Tesla isnt without issues, just sayin......
I follow a long running Tesla Powerwall thread in an Australian technology forum. By and large it would seems Tesla, here at least (can't speak for elsewhere), are supporting their customers when issues do arise. As are LG with their battery recall (as bad as that is) and Sonnen are going OK too, slower but at least they also have local support.

My point was if you want that sort of backup, then choose the brands/companies known in your market to have that service ethic/reputation. Those may well be quite different brands/companies.
 
I follow a long running Tesla Powerwall thread in an Australian technology forum. By and large it would seems Tesla, here at least (can't speak for elsewhere), are supporting their customers when issues do arise. As are LG with their battery recall (as bad as that is) and Sonnen are going OK too, slower but at least they also have local support.

My point was if you want that sort of backup, then choose the brands/companies known in your market to have that service ethic/reputation. Those may well be quite different brands/companies.
Yes you are correct with that point. Its why I chose Midnite solar and Samlex inverters. All the people here rushing to the lowest price chinese garbage has me scratching my head.
 
Mental list:

Sun Fun-Never buy
Big Battery-Never buy
Enphase-Never buy-silly warranty terms
Signature Solar-lame but entertaining….and probably, maybe, never buy. But maybe.
Amy(s)/Docan-Maybe. Depends on stock. B grade. Depends on US warehouse. 90% chance it’s ok.
Currentconnected.com-Strong buy.
Arizona Wind and Solar-75 percent good
Santan Solar-90 percent good. Some shipping issues.
Alt E-?
Don't forget about Solar-Biz (TheSolarBiz.com) After Tom spent an hour with me on the phone from his location in Panama and purchasing several items from them its the first place I look, their pricing is competitive.
 
Just like any profession or complex task it takes years of training to learn how to read and interpret research, and to be able to understand what is and is not valid on the basis of the data presented and the methodologies used. This is a skill requiring a career-like focus, including relevant review and feedback from reliable sources and is built up over a lifetime.


If you start out with the understanding that YouTube is merely another form of entertainment designed to promote what is popular, not what is correct/right, then you'll be better placed.

YouTube is entertainment first and foremost. Anything useful one might glean is a bonus but the signal to noise ratio is very low.

Occasionally entertainment media does occasionally provide useful or helpful information, but as a source of reliable data on matters which really require detailed analysis and sufficient expertise to understand, in general it's no better than cable news or newspapers or other mass media.

The skill of dedicated researchers, scientists and engineers is way under valued.
I've seen real professors from real universities give real lectures (brilliantly) on YouTube. There are some very entertaining professionals on YouTube.
But figuring out which are entertainers and which are professors, now that could be a career. :)
 
I've seen real professors from real universities give real lectures (brilliantly) on YouTube. There are some very entertaining professionals on YouTube.
But figuring out which are entertainers and which are professors, now that could be a career. :)
Oh for sure there is some excellent content delivered via YouTube. My point was to recognise most of it is designed to keep people watching anything on YouTube, irrespective of the validity of the presentation.

But like all social media, we the viewers are the product.
 
Been a long time lurker on this forum, but I suppose this is some information that may be of some use to people:

I have built their kit with the 280K cells, I was getting 278AH with there 150 bms. The labels on the cells said 286.343, 286.986, 287.238, 286.012

Reading this thread is disappointing and heart breaking, I really liked there kit..., I talked with Dwayne on the phone he seemed super nice so this is clearly alarming on what they are doing behind the scenes. I went back and watched the lets test certified cells video and I can confirm the results raybuildscoolstuff was getting around 278AH or so. I used a viltron smart shunt to verify the capacity and also the built in test they have, both were right at 278 ish and 3570 watt hours.
 
The 280K just does not match or come close to what EVE is claiming these are the grade A 280K with the official manufacturer test report. At this time I don’t recommend anyone buy the 280K regardless of it being a grade A or grade B. Some say it's because EVE decided to sacrifice capacity in lieu of Longer cycle life (6000 cycles vs the 3500 cycles of the 280N and 304).

One thing that is very strange is that these Cells may come short on the AH but they will come above the WH rating, the 280K is a 896WH cell and 280AH cell with a nominal voltage of 3.2 (nominal is the average voltage of the discharge curve).

My Results 278.4 & 901.4 WH, Luyuan Test Report said I should be getting 289.4 AH on these Matched & Batched Cells Genuine grade A:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/what-is-going-on-here-just-got-zke-40.49076/

shane_Uk with Luyuan Genuine matched & batch results 276 AH vs the 289 Ah on the sheet; did not show WH, but I suspect it would probably be around 900 or more:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/opinions-welcome-for-newbie-lifepo4-battery.47310/

18650batterystore.com grade A results, a person named Dena M. Says 277.7 AH (did not show WH, but again I suspect it would be around 900ish maybe 901):
https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/eve-lf280k#looxReviews


Fogstar UK grade A EVE 280, Cajocars gets 280.5 AH & 907.5 WH EVE stated Capacity was supposed to be 293.9 AH…, but still first person with a 280K to actually break the 280 barrier…but just barely
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/just-bought-16-280ah-a-grade-from-fogstar.51027/page-3#post-662021


So something is up, grade A 280K with manufacturing test report are having a hard time meeting the 280AH capacity which is very different form the original 280N and current 304, as these have NO problems meeting both AH and WH.


Now let's look at grade B 280k:

Docan 280K results, very detailed thread by basecamp, but average 263 AH and 850WH
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/poor-docan-experience-resolved.48592/#post-618121


Docan 280K Results by Ce Ce, 265 WH and 860 WH, tested a few cells but this was the average:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/disappointing-eve-280k-results.47555/


Docan 280K results by gonmag8 265 AH & 863.5 WH:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/disappointing-eve-280k-results.47555/post-606579

Docan 280K by atti 270Ah & unknown WH:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/eve-lf280k-capacity-test.49961/

I don’t want to just post Docan links but it seems they dominate the market probably sell 10x as many cells as all others combined so the test results all seem to be from them.


So yeah, Grade A with test report 280K is going to barely meet AH and will probably fall 1-2 AH short, it will exceed WH ratings though, and based on Ray’s testing this is consistent with his testing 276-278 ish AH, however he didn’t give us the WH so again its probably around 900 ish as we see with the others.

But Grade B 280K, yeah… I would not touch with a 10’ pole, we are right there with my low quality xuba cells that are now almost 4 years old 850 ish WH and 860 ish AH.

I’m not sure what type of Grade B docan’s Ray has, maybe they were 280N? Or Pre 2021 280K? DIfferent EVE factory perhaps? But the current 280K grade B supply reflects the grade A 280K and if they are having a hard time meeting capacity there is no chance grade B 280K will.

My recommendation is to avoid the EVE 280K grade A or B all together until a proven stable supply becomes available. If you want Grade A look at the EVE 304, they seem to be just like the original 280N but more capacity and are meeting both AH & WH.

If you are looking for Grade B Docan’s CATL 280 appears to be doing well testing well into the 295’s and higher. Other options would be 18650 grade B REPT 280s.

Lastly, I'm taking a screen grab of the video and will find out if the sun fun kits cells are luyuan cells, I'll ask them on Alibaba and see what they say, Lampard Li can usually tell who is the buyer of the cell based on the qr code / serial number.
 

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Thanks for that extensive research. It seems evident to me that Eve had a run of cells that were poor quality and used bullshit and obsification to dump them on the market for maximum price.
It would be interesting to see serial numbers or date of manufacture to try and figure out if it is one single run that was bad or these are just the lowest performing batteries per batch.
 
I'm no longer seeing Mr.Raybuildcoolstuff as a credible person, not after seeing this test:

Sorry but my own personal tests, and what others have tested and seeing now that the company Docan engages in outright fraud, re-lasering qr codes but is recommended by Ray makes me question his judgement.

I don't know about his doxing claims but that is a one sided claim that did not materialize to anything, I have my own opinions on those as well but I will keep those to myself.
 
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