Sungold / SRNE Inverter and Battery Communication in Solar Assistant

[Lighthouse Beacon]

Guys I am having problems with the inverter failing to communicate with Solar Assistant. It appears the USB is unstable for long term use with Solar Assistant and the SG / SRNE 10k. @marionw @Kenny_ @42OhmsPA

I want to get the communication from the batteries (485 Pylontech) to report to Solar Assistant directly and report the SOC and use another USB to 485 to talk/give automation commands to the inverter.

Does anyone know if this possible? @marionw would I need (2) 485 cables or a 232 cable for the batteries? I guess I would need to figure out what the pin outs are.

I think @marionw has an old post where he identified pin outs. Any tips appreciated guys. I have to get away from USB-B.

 

[Kenny_]

My SA is connected via USB to my inverter and via usb to 485 to my master battery.

It has crashed on occasion but rarely... have to restart the Pi

.... when I first installed SA I had the Pi sitting on top of the inverter and the usb cable running from below up beside it to the top and it crashed constantly.... I think the USB cable was picking up RF and causing it to crash...
after moving the pi down below the inverter (sitting on my master battery actually) it rarely crashes... maybe twice in a year...

 

[42OhmsPA]

I'm not having any issues with the ASPs on the latest beta. I did have some issues early on with the ASF but they got better with SA updates.

These are the cables I'm using with the ASPs. Monoprice USB Type-A to USB Type-B 2.0 Cable - Gold Plated, 28/24AWG, 3 Feet, White https://a.co/d/aeWCByH

My Pi sits on my wire trough below the loads panel, between the ASPs.

SRNEs are connected directly to the Pi and the 4 JBDs go to an old USB hub I had laying around. I used the USB adapters from Overkill.

 

[marionw]

Please note that some inverters (and manufacturers) have reported problems using the USB 2.0 Type-B Male (squarish looking connector with two rounded corners) with Solar Assistant, there may be ground loop issues between the Raspberry PI and the AIO.

Andy's Off Grid Garage discusses issues with "non" isolated communications.

the Off-Grid-Garage

DIY Solar Battery Projects

off-grid-garage.com

I use isolated RS485 to USB converters between my computer and my Inverter and batteries as well as inputs to Solar Assistant.

See:

M

Post in thread 'Help with Pace BMS Comms'

Dec 29, 2023

First, do you have the pinout of each RS485 port.
The EG4 Lifepower4 batteries for example use pins 1&2 as an RS485 bus as well as pins 7&8 as a second RS485 bus in the same RJ45 jack.
I purchased a RS485 to USB Converter:
RS485-USB-Converter

Using a spare cat5 cable, just cut of the RJ45 connector on one end, remove about 3 inches of the outer insulation then you can connect the correct pair of wires to the RS485 to USB Converter and plug the RJ45 connector on the other end to the correct port on the battery.
Look at the RJ45 connector on the cable (With my tired old eye I use a...

• marionw

• 

M

Post in thread 'query on SRNE reset times.'

Feb 6, 2024

I use a spare ethernet patch cable, cut the RJ45 connector off one end, strip two to three inches of the outer insulation and select the pair of wires I need depending on which pins of the Inverter or BMS I need to use.

For a normal cable pins 1 & 2 are the orange/white and orange. Pins 7 & 8 are the brown/white and brown. I even at times use several of the wire pairs in the same cable.

Holding the RJ45 connector with the pins up and facing you (the latch/lock is facing away from you) pin 1 will be on the left and pin 8 on the right.

I use these as you can never tell which two pins in a...

• marionw

• 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B7MMSQXL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Lighthouse Beacon]

Brilliant guys thank you this all makes sense. @marionw im going to convert with the Waveshare Industrial USB to RS485 and get away from the USB-B. I recently bought a new pi, ssd, power supply, and ferrite rings and it ran about a week before it lost communication. The other Pi on Beta was freezing every 2-4 hours. I will update how it works out.

 

[marionw]

Brilliant guys thank you this all makes sense. @marionw im going to convert with the Waveshare Industrial USB to RS485 and get away from the USB-B. I recently bought a new pi, ssd, power supply, and ferrite rings and it ran about a week before it lost communication. The other Pi on Beta was freezing every 2-4 hours. I will update how it works out. View attachment 241494

Can't promise anything... But keep your fingers crossed.

I purchased my Orange PI preloaded directly from Solar Assistant and it came with a 5vdc buck DC to DC power converter.
In my setup I have an auto type fuse block wired (negative) to the AIO side of my Victron Shunt. The positive side is wired via an inline fuse to the positive bus bar in the battery stack.

I have the Victron shunt (via a 1 amp fuse) and a 20-90vdc to 12vdc buck converter (via a 10 amp fuse) connected to this fuse block. The 20-90vdc to 12vdc buck converter feeds my 12vdc fuse block where I have several 12vdc loads including a 10 inch HDMI touch screen (for the PI) as well as the 5vdc buck converter which powers the Orange PI. As you can see I have several power isolations between the power to the Orange PI and the same 48vdc power to the AIO.

Some folks use a "wall wart" to power their PI and have had issues when using the AIO USB port. Isolating the RS485 to USB inputs from any source into the PI has to be helpful.

I am setting up an Asus WIFI router (12vdc power and will operate as an Access Point to my NetGear Nighthawk WIFI router) and a number or RS485 to ethernet converters as well as RS232 to ethernet converters (all require 5vdc) to get all the Solar monitoring communications visible on my network so I can monitor everything from a single monitoring software. I also have an Ambient WS5000 weather station which I will include in the software not only for better PV production analysis but also for weather predictions for battery charging

Fuse Block:

Amazon.com

20-90vdc to 12vdc buck converter:

Amazon.com

 

[Lighthouse Beacon]

Can't promise anything... But keep your fingers crossed.

I purchased my Orange PI preloaded directly from Solar Assistant and it came with a 5vdc buck DC to DC power converter.
In my setup I have an auto type fuse block wired (negative) to the AIO side of my Victron Shunt. The positive side is wired via an inline fuse to the positive bus bar in the battery stack.

I have the Victron shunt (via a 1 amp fuse) and a 20-90vdc to 12vdc buck converter (via a 10 amp fuse) connected to this fuse block. The 20-90vdc to 12vdc buck converter feeds my 12vdc fuse block where I have several 12vdc loads including a 10 inch HDMI touch screen (for the PI) as well as the 5vdc buck converter which powers the Orange PI. As you can see I have several power isolations between the power to the Orange PI and the same 48vdc power to the AIO.

Some folks use a "wall wart" to power their PI and have had issues when using the AIO USB port. Isolating the RS485 to USB inputs from any source into the PI has to be helpful.

I am setting up an Asus WIFI router (12vdc power and will operate as an Access Point to my NetGear Nighthawk WIFI router) and a number or RS485 to ethernet converters as well as RS232 to ethernet converters (all require 5vdc) to get all the Solar monitoring communications visible on my network so I can monitor everything from a single monitoring software. I also have an Ambient WS5000 weather station which I will include in the software not only for better PV production analysis but also for weather predictions for battery charging

Fuse Block:

Amazon.com

20-90vdc to 12vdc buck converter:

Amazon.com

That sounds like a very smart setup. Yes I’m wall wart with very little isolation. I am going to address that as well thank you for your insight

 

[Lighthouse Beacon]

Well @marionw your info turned out awesome. I seem to be running with no freezing up now. I’ve got the batteries and the inverter talking to SA. Looks like both inverter and battery wanted pins 7 and 8. Only issue I’m seeing is that SA says it found and addresses 4 batteries but I only see two in SA? Is that normal? Dip switches are set 2,3,4,5

 

[Kenny_]

View attachment 241711View attachment 241712View attachment 241713Well @marionw your info turned out awesome. I seem to be running with no freezing up now. I’ve got the batteries and the inverter talking to SA. Looks like both inverter and battery wanted pins 7 and 8. Only issue I’m seeing is that SA says it found and addresses 4 batteries but I only see two in SA? Is that normal? Dip switches are set 2,3,4,5

I think your first/master battery has to be set to 1

 

[marionw]

If your wall mount SGP batteries are like my SGP rack mounted then the battery has on the right (looking up from the bottom) two RJ485 jacks that are for battery to battery communications. Either jack on a battery can daisy chain to the next battery.

The next port to the left is an RS232 (RJ12 6 pin jack looks like a phone jack) which is used by Solar Assistant or SOKTools.exe or PbmsTools.exe

The next two ports are RJ45 jacks which are CAN and RS485. The RS485 is connected to the BMS input on the inverter if you are using closed loop.
Battery addresses normally start at 1 and increase. The battery with address 1 is the master and it collects data from the other batteries. The RS485 jack on this battery is connected to the BMS jack on the inverter.

You need an RS232 to USB cable connected to the RS232 jack on the Master (address 1) battery. Plug this into SA and it will pull the data from all the batteries.

This is the RS232 to USB cable I use

Amazon.com

You can download the SOKTools.exe software from the Current Connected website. This software is a great tool for getting a look inside the batteries and monitoring individual cell voltages, temperatures and alarms. It's free so use it. Use the last link on the page

SK48V100 Server Rack Battery Owner & Operator's Manual | Current Connected

Full instruction manual for the SOK SK48V100 server rack battery. Everything you need to know is contained within this document!

www.currentconnected.com

 

[Lighthouse Beacon]

I’ve got the 485 on inverter going to SA and I’ve got the 485 on batteries going to SA. I was closed loop, which I liked, but now I’m open because SA is using the 485 on inverter. I’m letting SA read the SOC and determine being on grid or on batteries. So I need SA to read from the 232 plug to understand all the batts?

I wish the inverter had 2 485 ports so I could stay closed comms and also talk to SA. WiFi port is useless correct?

The board calls WI-FI 485-1

Hmmmm

UPDATED BELOW:




Sungold support is full of crap



Yes you can!

I am now talking to the inverter on “WIFI port” aka (RS4851) and closed comms via RS485-2 to batteries 485.

My next step is to order the RS232 cable and connect it to sok tools/Solar Assistant. So I benefit from BMS inverter closed comms, 485 communication to pi (no more usb b onboard converter) and 232 comms to sok tools or sa to better understand battery granular details


Making progress and learning! Awesommmeeee

 

[marionw]

The WIFI port uses pins 1&2 for power to the dongle DO NOT USE. Pins 7&8 are the RS485 bus pins that can be used for SA via an RS485 to USB Converter. This is what I use and I have had no problems. The dongle uses pins 1&2 for power and uses pins 7&8 to pull data from the inverter. The communications protocol on this port is SRNE Modbus.

I use pins 7&8 of the WIFI port for SA or the IPower.exe monitoring software (one or the other, not both at the same time). I use an RJ45 splitter and all I need to do if I want to run IPower.exe is to access SA via it's web and on the Configuration tab disconnect the Inverter and Battery connections. I also have an RJ45 splitter from the battery stack to both SA and to my computer so I can run SOKTools.exe. I just disconnect SA via it's web, run SOKTools and when done re-connect SA on the Configuration tab. No need to actually disconnect cables

RS485A goes to my inverter. RS232 to SA and RS485B and RS485C are battery to battery.

My Master battery and the battery stack. The open slot at the top is screaming for another battery...

 

[Lighthouse Beacon]

Thank you @marionw I have one other concern I’m curious what you think. I’ve noticed since my vacation in early July,(I shut down system for week) my voltages have been lower across all my packs. I live in South Florida, this also is my first summer with Solar and late June is when the rains come, it’s been cloudy almost every day. My mini split A/C are also running more. Does this look like my choppy PV production is the reason for my voltage drop off across my packs? I can’t find any connections bad anywhere. The BMS is telling the inverter to disconnect at 48.8 volts, but my SOC is still at 42%. Very odd. If I change any of those settings BMS comms put them back.

 

[Crowz]

I solved all of the drops/crashes etc with SA by buying a shielded usb cable. End of problems.

• Premium double-shielded cables with tinned copper braid and aluminum Mylar foil, Ferrite chokes
• Gold plated connectors and gold plated copper contacts for superior conductivity.

Amazon.com

$10.77 $3.59 per Foot ($3.59 / Foot)

Tripp Lite USB 2.0 Hi-Speed A/B Cable with Ferrite Chokes (M/M) 3-ft. (U023-003)​

​

 

[Kenny_]

I solved all of the drops/crashes etc with SA by buying a shielded usb cable. End of problems.

• Premium double-shielded cables with tinned copper braid and aluminum Mylar foil, Ferrite chokes
• Gold plated connectors and gold plated copper contacts for superior conductivity.

Amazon.com

$10.77 $3.59 per Foot ($3.59 / Foot)

Tripp Lite USB 2.0 Hi-Speed A/B Cable with Ferrite Chokes (M/M) 3-ft. (U023-003)​

View attachment 241785​

Yep! I'm pretty sure that is what my initial problem with my crashing Pi/SA! RF interference. Maybe I should get that shielded cable.
Working well at the moment though!

....ordered

 

[Lighthouse Beacon]

I solved all of the drops/crashes etc with SA by buying a shielded usb cable. End of problems.

• Premium double-shielded cables with tinned copper braid and aluminum Mylar foil, Ferrite chokes
• Gold plated connectors and gold plated copper contacts for superior conductivity.

Amazon.com

$10.77 $3.59 per Foot ($3.59 / Foot)

Tripp Lite USB 2.0 Hi-Speed A/B Cable with Ferrite Chokes (M/M) 3-ft. (U023-003)​

View attachment 241785​

I have that same cable. I’ve tried several

 

[Crowz]

I have that same cable. I’ve tried several

Why not use a victron smart shunt to track the actual soc for the battery bank and have that connected to solar assistant and then set the inverter to user for the battery and have it track actual voltage?

That's how mine is setup and works flawlessly.

or have solar assistant talk to the batteries for information gathering for each battery and have the inverter set to user and use voltage like mentioned above.

Using comms just seems like asking for headaches on these.

 

[Lighthouse Beacon]

Why not use a victron smart shunt to track the actual soc for the battery bank and have that connected to solar assistant and then set the inverter to user for the battery and have it track actual voltage?

That's how mine is setup and works flawlessly.

or have solar assistant talk to the batteries for information gathering for each battery and have the inverter set to user and use voltage like mentioned above.

Using comms just seems like asking for headaches on these.

I was on utility all night. Got up this morning with inverter in alarm for low voltage cut off. My packs were at 47.7 volts. I don’t know why my volts are getting lower and lower. Could I have a dead cell?

I use to never get that low in voltage. SOC said 40% at 47.7 volts. I’ve never seen volts that low and a SOC that high




Is this ok @42OhmsPA?

 

[agtcovert]

Timely thread. Soon as I get mine going I have a new PI ready for SA. I will have multiple SmartShunts (one will measure Chargeverter and ancillary solar generation from a Victron MPPT). Other will be main shunt. I will likely set up another PI with Venus OS similar to Off Grid Garage.

I know the JK BMSes speak Pylon, so hopefully I can use the information but leave comms open loop. Definitely seems like a source of anguish. I'm probably going to get an Orion 48-12-20 to a fuse block / bus bar for 12v stuff. They're like $63. Just wish they had a VE.Direct version.

Need to finish the big picture, but this is my plan. I have a powered 7 port USB hub I didn't use in my RV build I'm going to use for the USB stuff. Hopefully that also helps interference.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I was on utility all night. Got up this morning with inverter in alarm for low voltage cut off. My packs were at 47.7 volts. I don’t know why my volts are getting lower and lower. Could I have a dead cell? View attachment 241810

I use to never get that low in voltage. SOC said 40% at 47.7 volts. I’ve never seen volts that low and a SOC that high


View attachment 241811

Is this ok @42OhmsPA?

What are individual cell voltages when the packs are that low?

 

[Crowz]

Definitely need to get cell voltages across all the batteries when they are low like that.

Now on thing I do from time to time if the weather looks bad for a few days is to not run on the batteries and let them sit fully charged to allow for balancing.

 

[Crowz]

Also I stay in hybrid mode aka uti mode all the time. I use the scheduling feature that's built into the inverter to choose the times for it to run on the batteries. This also allows for me to adjust how much of the batteries gets used aka dod. If the weather looks bad for the next few days I just set option 53 to disabled to turn off it running on the batteries.

 

[Zwy]

When I purchased SA, I bought the whole package from SA including the buck converter. I have yet to see any crash. The only time I have had to reboot SA was when the local network had to be rebooted and SA needed a reboot to reconnect to the router. My network is between house and shop, modem is located in the shop.

Why not use a victron smart shunt to track the actual soc for the battery bank and have that connected to solar assistant and then set the inverter to user for the battery and have it track actual voltage?

That's how mine is setup and works flawlessly.

or have solar assistant talk to the batteries for information gathering for each battery and have the inverter set to user and use voltage like mentioned above.

Using comms just seems like asking for headaches on these.

I have a Smartshunt connected to SA and it works perfect for SOC. I would not recommend anything else.

I was on utility all night. Got up this morning with inverter in alarm for low voltage cut off. My packs were at 47.7 volts. I don’t know why my volts are getting lower and lower. Could I have a dead cell?

You need to start checking individual batteries and cells, it is possible you have cell drift and need to top balance. When running batteries in a pack, you will need to take pack balance into consideration on how the cables should be ran. Individual batteries drifting from a pack is the result of resistance and that resistance can be at the connections or how the cables are connected to the parallel batteries. Cable has resistance and will affect voltage potential which will affect SOC.

 

[Lighthouse Beacon]

I’m waiting on my 232 cable so all I can see is plugging sa into each 485

 

[marionw]

You definitely need to use SOKTools so you can get a detailed picture of your batteries. It is possible the batteries need some TLC for an initial controlled charge. If a battery has a "runner cell", that is, a cell get gets charged much faster than others and reached the Cell Over Voltage Protection setpoint the BMS will stop further charging of the battery and you may never get any of the other cells fully charged and in addition the BMS may never reset SOC to 100%.

ALL new batteries need a controlled/monitored charge before placing into service.

In the above SA screenshot it appears something may be wrong. The "Capacity" as displayed is way off, 20ah? should be the total capacity of the battery, more like 100ah. You need one battery address set to 1 which makes it the "Master" and by connecting SA to the RS232 port on the "Master" battery, SA will display each battery connected to the Master

Are you in open or closed loop. In closed loop the Inverter will set/override several of the "Menu" items with data being reported by the "Master BMS" and if you change the setting the Inverter will simply change it back to the BMS reported setting. If you simply disconnect the BMS communications cable the Inverter will default back to any setting you enter, or you can set the Battery Type (Menu 08) to USER and set what you want.

This is a screenshot of SA. I have SA connected to my SGP batteries via the RS232 to USB cable plugged into the RS232 port on the "Master" battery.



SA Configuration: