Sunny Boy Storage

[gtibbitts]

Hello,
I currently have a grid connect system with an SMA 7.6KW inverter and 36 panels. It is working very well, but I'd like to add battery backup. The solar system is on my outbuilding which is roughly 75ft from my home. I'm looking at the Sunny Boy Storage 5.0KW unit and would get a Sunny Boy Automatic Backup Unit to handle failover when the grid goes down. My question is, the specs for the SBS and ABU both state that they must be within 10 meters/30ft. I believe this is for the communications system over cat5e. I'd like to have the ABU at my house and the SBS in my outbuilding which is farther away (75ft) because I don't want to attache the SBS and batteries to the side of my house. Does anyone know if these components can be set up at a distance greater than 30ft? Thanks,

Greg

 

[MurphyGuy]

I can't answer your question about the 30 foot limit. If you don't get an answer here, you might want to contact SMA themselves.

I do know that with the Sunny Boy inverters, the Secure Power Supply activation switch has to be within 10 meters because its a TTL (5 volt?) signal and becomes unreliable beyond that.

I looked at the Sunny Boy Storage and wasn't impressed. I'm not thrilled about their high voltage DC battery and limited options. Instead, I went with the SMA Sunny Island units which seem far more robust and flexible.

 

[gtibbitts]

I can't answer your question about the 30 foot limit. If you don't get an answer here, you might want to contact SMA themselves.

I do know that with the Sunny Boy inverters, the Secure Power Supply activation switch has to be within 10 meters because its a TTL (5 volt?) signal and becomes unreliable beyond that.

I looked at the Sunny Boy Storage and wasn't impressed. I'm not thrilled about their high voltage DC battery and limited options. Instead, I went with the SMA Sunny Island units which seem far more robust and flexible.

After looking at the Sunny Island, I think you are right. That will work better for what I need to do. Are you off grid or on-grid and if the latter, what automatic transfer switch do you use with the SI?

 

[MurphyGuy]

After looking at the Sunny Island, I think you are right. That will work better for what I need to do. Are you off grid or on-grid and if the latter, what automatic transfer switch do you use with the SI?

I am normally grid tied, but with the flip of a couple of switches, I can be off grid in about 3 minutes.. Once done, our 11kW solar array feeds 25kWh of lithium battery bank using the Sunny Islands and AC Coupling.

We don't use any automatic transfer equipment because we keep our off-grid system completely isolated when not in use, not even the earth ground is connected. In fact, the entire system sits on rubber casters so not even the box has conductivity to the concrete floor. When the power goes out, I connect a 6ga-4 wire cord between the battery system and my home's electrical panel.. 30 seconds later, we have full power to the entire house, a minute or two after that, the solar kicks in and keeps everything charged and powered. Total time from the grid going out to being powered by the off grid system is about 3 minutes.. most of which is me wondering why the lights wont turn on and then walking down to the basement.

Sunny Island's are the way to go.. You could just connect them to some flooded lead acid cells for a super reliable and super simple off-grid system. The Sunny Islands are well worth the extra cost. Our's have no problems starting the air conditioner or any other heavy load. In fact, I've never even gotten them to turn their own cooling fans on yet and have to physically look at the display to tell if they're even turned on.. They make less noise than my refrigerator.

Here's a couple photos of our system.

 

[gtibbitts]

I am normally grid tied, but with the flip of a couple of switches, I can be off grid in about 3 minutes.. Once done, our 11kW solar array feeds 25kWh of lithium battery bank using the Sunny Islands and AC Coupling.

We don't use any automatic transfer equipment because we keep our off-grid system completely isolated when not in use, not even the earth ground is connected. In fact, the entire system sits on rubber casters so not even the box has conductivity to the concrete floor. When the power goes out, I connect a 6ga-4 wire cord between the battery system and my home's electrical panel.. 30 seconds later, we have full power to the entire house, a minute or two after that, the solar kicks in and keeps everything charged and powered. Total time from the grid going out to being powered by the off grid system is about 3 minutes.. most of which is me wondering why the lights wont turn on and then walking down to the basement.

Sunny Island's are the way to go.. You could just connect them to some flooded lead acid cells for a super reliable and super simple off-grid system. The Sunny Islands are well worth the extra cost. Our's have no problems starting the air conditioner or any other heavy load. In fact, I've never even gotten them to turn their own cooling fans on yet and have to physically look at the display to tell if they're even turned on.. They make less noise than my refrigerator.

Here's a couple photos of our system.

MurphyGuy,
I acquired a pair of Sunny Island inverters. I have the ac wiring done, but am not sure if the DC is all wired into the master or if it's split with the slave. I'm assuming it is wired to both based on the sma diagrams, but haven't found any docs clarifying this. Can you confirm or correct my assumption? Thanks,

Greg

 

[MurphyGuy]

MurphyGuy,
I acquired a pair of Sunny Island inverters. I have the ac wiring done, but am not sure if the DC is all wired into the master or if it's split with the slave. I'm assuming it is wired to both based on the sma diagrams, but haven't found any docs clarifying this. Can you confirm or correct my assumption? Thanks,

Greg

The pos and neg battery cables must be wired to both inverters.

 

[Hedges]

After looking at the Sunny Island, I think you are right. That will work better for what I need to do. Are you off grid or on-grid and if the latter, what automatic transfer switch do you use with the SI?

In case you haven't figured it out already, a transfer switch isn't necessary with Sunny Island because it has internal SPST switch good for 56A. AC2 input goes to the grid, AC1 output goes to Sunny Boys and protected loads. Transfer switch would only be if you had both generator and grid input. In that case, switch must be in "off" position for 5 seconds before connecting other source, and it must have an auxiliary contact to tell Sunny Island when input is a generator.

You should get a "load shed" relay to disconnect the house, while keeping Sunny Boys connected to Sunny Island, in the event battery gets low.

A fuse (or two) at battery positive terminal would be a good idea.

 

[OzSolar]

In case you haven't figured it out already, a transfer switch isn't necessary with Sunny Island because it has internal SPST switch good for 56A. AC2 input goes to the grid, AC2 output goes to Sunny Boys and protected loads. Transfer switch would only be if you had both generator and grid input. In that case, switch must be in "off" position for 5 seconds before connecting other source, and it must have an auxiliary contact to tell Sunny Island when input is a generator

Do you mean "AC1 output goes to Sunny Boys and protected loads"? I might be missing something.

 

[Hedges]

Do you mean "AC1 output goes to Sunny Boys and protected loads"? I might be missing something.

Yeah, I'm confused (as usual.)
Time for another cup of

 

[Calvin98]

Here's a couple photos of our system.

What a great idea! Super clean installation! Very impressed. Where did you get the cabinet? Was considering something similar myself. I Like the portability aspect. That's a "heavy load" on those wheels 350lbs +?

 

[kuranaga]

I looked at the Sunny Boy Storage and wasn't impressed. I'm not thrilled about their high voltage DC battery and limited options. Instead, I went with the SMA Sunny Island units which seem far more robust and flexible.

their Sunnyboy storage units are basically equal to their Sunnyboy TL-US units but with MPPT removed. DC specs are identical.

 

[Hedges]

And now in the European market they have a 3-phase hybrid, with some inputs for battery and some for PV.

Sunny Tripower Smart Energy

That starts to get very interesting. Ideally they would offer one in the future for 120/208Y, and have the option to make that 120/240V split-phase (just a timing difference, and either ignore the 3rd leg or parallel with the 1st for imbalanced loads on L1.)

Biggest issue with Sunny Boy Storage seems to be wimpy 9kW surge (similar to PowerWall), and not stackable with additional units. Of course, external transfer switch and auto-transformer makes it much less attractive.

Sunny Island is much more capable. But lacks software for some grid shave/export limit/sell/interactive features.

 

[MurphyGuy]

What a great idea! Super clean installation! Very impressed. Where did you get the cabinet? Was considering something similar myself. I Like the portability aspect. That's a "heavy load" on those wheels 350lbs +?

Hmm.. Each Sunny Island is about 140 lbs so that's 280 lbs of inverters. The cabinet is probably 80 lbs (14 ga steel), plus the lithium battery inside is about 300 lbs. Add about 18 feet of 2/0 copper cable + BMS, contactor, main breaker, bus bars, etc, and the entire thing weighs around 700 lbs or so.

The wheels are rated for 600 lbs each.
I bought the cabinet as scrap steel for $40. It has a 12 inch scratch in the paint on the back side.

 

[Calvin98]

Really heavy! You are probably one of the few guys that could "easily" lift those inverters onto the low cabinet. I've seen people use tractors because they are so heavy. I had to use a forklift. I really like the idea though.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Really heavy! You are probably one of the few guys that could "easily" lift those inverters onto the low cabinet. I've seen people use tractors because they are so heavy. I had to use a forklift. I really like the idea though. Probably don't need any permits either since it is portable like that. Just another appliance.

I put a couple of 5 gallon buckets on a 4 wheel dolly with a piece of plywood and lifted it there first.. Then wheeled it over and muscled it up. Thought maybe I had dropped one of my nuts doing it and waited until the next day to do the second one.

They are heavy.. If I ever do it again, I'll use a chain fall to lift them..

 

[Hedges]

I used an engine hoist.
Just did it again this weekend for 3x Sunny Island. This time forgot about sand bags for counterbalance (after initially remembering) when extending boom beyond the front wheels; fortunately wasn't beyond the balance point.

How does a 140 pound weakling hang a 140 pound inverter?

When I hung my original 2.5 kW SWR-2500U inverters 17 years ago, I was probably stronger and they were only 75 lbs. I was able to carry them up a stepladder and hang them head high. Taking them down to upgrade was doable, but difficult When I hung 75 lb transformerless 10000TLUS under the deck...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Calvin98]

Ha. I bet every Sunny Island out there has its own lift story!
Buckets, engine hoist, sheer muscle power (David Poz), tractor and chain, guy on a pallet on a forklift......
Normal inverters are no problem, but Sunny Islands - man, oh man are they heavy.

The nice thing about the SB Storage is the high voltage series wiring. Means wires are for 10A current instead of 56A, 100's for the SI. Cost is high - $2600 for SBS and $3275 for the automatic backup unit. That is getting up there. Plus you have to use the SBS with "approved batteries" -BYD, LG, etc. They are expensive also. If you don't use SMA approved batteries, warranty might not apply. I think there might be more choices out there for 48V batteries than 500V batteries now.