Sunny Webbox RS485 w/SMA 6048-US

[Hedges]

¡Hola! ...

(Hello! I have an Off Grid installation consisting of a Sunny island and a Sunny Boy connected by Webbox, along with a backup generator set. To monitor the installation use the modbus protocol. This protocol allows me to read data periodically. Now, I want to write in your logs daily to prune the %Dod Inf, %Dod Sup and the battery charge current value (128 InvChrgCurMax). For this last parameter, the address that appears in the MODBUS document is incorrect: https://studylib.net/doc/25277802/webbox-modbus-tb-en-19 You have to modify this value through an FTP server, but a file does not appear in the file repository so that you can modify this value. Can you help me with either option? With a newer version of the Webbox MODBUS file or with downloading the FTP file of the Sunny Island configuration. THANK YOU)

I'm sorry, I have not gotten into the protocol at all. I just use Webbox as an interface between PC and inverters (direct crossover RJ45 cable, not networked), and as a data logger.

If you have Webbox connected to the internet, be aware that it has known security vulnerability.
I did see FTP mentioned in some documents.

SMA WebBox vulnerabilities

Got SMA WebBox connected. It is able to see the SB5000 and SI-6048 I'm using, display and presumably alter their parameters. My unit has RS-485 for communication with inverters and Ethernet for PC/network (other models have Bluetooth but lack legacy networks.) Reading that it supports FTP with...

diysolarforum.com

 

[daklein]

Fun new ebay toy came in the mail today: a reasonable cost used webbox! (I can't believe the asking prices I see up to $500-800 for an obsolete communication device that might already have been struck by lightning!? But, this showed up for <$50, ok I'll try that, and woohoo, it powers up fine.)

I see the baudrate can be set to 19200, same as I'm currently using with raspberry pi / rs485 / piggyback card to the SI6048 inverters. I kind of need that 19200b, which allows a 3-4sec update rate capable communication for other things in the system. I had been thinking the webbox would only work at 1200baud, so I'd only be able to use one or the other. But hey, maybe webbox can run at 19200?

Is anyone running a webbox at 19200baud rs485? Thanks!

 

[Hedges]

this showed up for <$50, ok I'll try that, and woohoo, it powers up fine.)

You beat me to it by a couple hours. I woke up to see it appeared and sold.

I've spent about $150 for mine.

Many SMA things run at 1200 baud. Get everything working at that speed before trying to increase it.
I've stuck with slow and steady.

Hassles with changing PC IP addresses to match, also turning off firewall.
At work I've used USB to Ethernet dongles. The settings are for a particular dongle, convenient to leave set.

 

[daklein]

You beat me to it by a couple hours. I woke up to see it appeared and sold.

Ha, There was one a week or two ago asking about $150 and I missed that one. The webbox does communicate with the SI at 19200. Probably obvious, but the raspberry pi rs485 interface must be disabled (unplugged the USB end, the rs485 is still connected and terminated), otherwise there would be two masters on the rs485 bus, at least for the initial detection of the SI on the bus. The webbox gave an error message immediately when detecting devices on the bus, when the RPi yasdi interface was still connected. I left the SI set at 19200, and set the webbox at 19200, and it worked.


And there, I learned one thing already; the parameter numbers are not unique, the parameters must go by the names? For example, parameter GdManStr is one I've wondered about setting remotely. It's available on the SI operation menu #560, to start /stop or auto the grid relay. The yasdi list of parameters showed it as #150, but the webbox lists it as #72.

150 | ' GdManStr' | 'Stop' ​

150 | ' GdManStr' | 'Auto' ​

And then, believe it or not, both YASDI from the RPI, and the Webbox seem to be coexisting on the rs485 bus. It's a bad idea to do so, I would think, they're going to step on each other's messages eventually. Definitely would not try to change parameters with either one while both are connected. Well, I guess I'll disconnect it now. That was fun to play with for a minute.

 

[Hedges]

Ha, There was one a week or two ago asking about $150 and I missed that one.

Was that you? I was going to put an offer on it but saw someone else had. So I bought it for asking price.
You win this round.

See you next time!

 

[kommando]

On RS485 I have found that having 2 masters will screw up the detection phase so instead each master has to be connected singularly for detection, however after the detection phase is complete both masters can be connected. Occasionally the polling from both masters will clash but as long as you only reading registers and not writing to them you will hardly notice. When writing to registers I first disconnect the other master just to be safe.

 

[Hedges]

I have read that multi-master RS-485 is sometimes done. Not sure if there are proprietary approaches.

What I have not been able to figure out is how SI-6048US signals over RS-485. It is compatible with another master like WebBox or Sunny Boy Control. The only message it sends is off-grid vs. on-grid, switching backup mode. With Sunny Boy Control as master, I'm able to see its data packets to/from Sunny Boy using a scope. But I have never triggered on anything when SI tells SB to switch. SB display shows the two states. Does anyone know what SI's message looks like, what pattern? Is it out of band, not a differential signal?

For a backup system with SI and SB, I would like to have a transfer switch so SI can be bypassed, putting loads directly on grid. I presently have that as manual interlocked breakers. I'd like to do it with a failsafe automatic switch, so refrigeration isn't lost if SI shuts off while I'm away. I might also want to manually transfer SB so direct to grid. Slow, 5 seconds off so it disconnects, doesn't suddenly get connected out of phase.

Because my older SB use RS-485, I would disconnect that to ensure they return to UL-1741 mode and do anti-islanding. Use 3-pole QO370 "generator" breaker. Have to extend sheet metal interlock because handle is in middle of breaker. When QO370 is turned on, it will feed SI output to the panel and 3rd pole will be live, closing a relay that completes RS-485 circuit.

For newer SB set to Rule-21, they should be compatible with both grid and SI. However, SMA America for some reason recommends setting them to "island" when used behind SI. No reason has been offered.

 

[kommando]

SMA's unique RS485 implementation SMAnet, technically very good but a cul de sac they wasted energy on when a simple Modbus implementation would have worked just as well. So Yasdi comes in when you want something other than an SMA peice of kit from the same era to connect. All my SB inverters and my SI5048 use this SMAnet but the SB inverters are so old they only have the Off_Grid option so no need to connect vis RS485 to the SI5048 to be told if the Grid is connected or not as they would not respond. Plus if I did connect the SB's to the SI I would be stuck with 1200 baud. The SI5048 frequency increase is all they need to moderate output when the batteries are nearly full.

I use a Solar-log to connect to the SB inverters, this has a SMAnet implementation so does all the data logging but they never got round to supporting the SI5048. What I have achieved is setting up a Modbus TCP slave simulator set with the registers for an SI8.0H-13 which the Solar-log does support. The fake SI8.0H-13 was detected and data I entered into the holding registers for SOC, bat voltage were logged and recorded. So now the next step is to connect to the SI5048 via Yasdi and collect the data, then translate this to the SI8.0H-13 modbus registers in a Modbus slave and get the Solar-log to first detect the SI8.0H-13 and then log all the info. I will likely do this all on a Raspberry PI running Yasdi MQTT and the Mango Scada software which reads MQTT databases using data points and has a Modbus TCP publisher ie a Modbus slave which can read the data points which the Solar-log should see.

Mango can also read the frequency and then turn relays on and off so adding or removing loads

This is the Modbus tool I used, which has the Modbus slave simulator, it can also write to defined registers and has traffic monitors so you can see the registers being queried, which is very useful to know in the detection phase as then you can add these to the slave.

GitHub - SciFiDryer/ModbusMechanic: Cross platform GUI MODBUS TCP/RTU simulator & gateway. Interprets data types including ascii float and int.

Cross platform GUI MODBUS TCP/RTU simulator & gateway. Interprets data types including ascii float and int. - GitHub - SciFiDryer/ModbusMechanic: Cross platform GUI MODBUS TCP/RTU simulator &am...

github.com

Its a pity SMA went off in a tangent with SMAnet, when they finally went to Modbus TCP its a very structured implementation with the same register number for the same data carrying across from one generation to another. So once you can connect to one Modbus Inverter or SI its easy to move to the next generation.

 

[solar3000]

¡Hola! Estoy intentando escribir parámetros a través del protocolo Modbus, ¿ha encontrado la dirección del registro 128 InvChrgCurMax, la dirección que aparece en el manual WEBBOX-MODBUS-TB-en-19 no es correcta? ¿Conoces alguna otra forma de modificar estos parámetros sin que sea manualmente a través de la interfaz web?
¡Gracias de antemano! Saludos

 

[kommando]

Install Yasdi for windows, connect PC to RS485 on the SI and use Yasdi to change parameter, you have it as 128, my SI has it as

404​

InvChrgCurMax​

'40.000' (A)​

Believe it changes with the firmware version hence the mismatch. So pull the parameters via Yasdi first and see if Yasdi sees it as 128 or 404 or another number.

 

[solar3000]

Hola, gracias por tu respuesta!
Ejecuto el exe y no em detecta el Webbox. Por lo que leo en el README es para Sunny Boys! ¿Como puedo detectar el Webbox para posteriormente leer los parámetros del Sunny Island y poder modiciar el registro que te comentaba?

Gracais de nuevo por tu ayuda,
Saludos

 

[kommando]

Yasdi is not for Webbox but for direct connection to SI.

connect PC to RS485 on the SI and use Yasdi to change parameter

 

[Hedges]

¡Hola! Estoy intentando escribir parámetros a través del protocolo Modbus, ¿ha encontrado la dirección del registro 128 InvChrgCurMax, la dirección que aparece en el manual WEBBOX-MODBUS-TB-en-19 no es correcta? ¿Conoces alguna otra forma de modificar estos parámetros sin que sea manualmente a través de la interfaz web?
¡Gracias de antemano! Saludos

"Hello! I am trying to write parameters via the Modbus protocol, have you found the address of the register 128 InvChrgCurMax, the address that appears in the manual WEBBOX-MODBUS-TB-en-19 is not correct? Do you know any other way to modify these parameters without it being manually through the web interface? Thanks in advance! Best regards"

Hola, gracias por tu respuesta!
Ejecuto el exe y no em detecta el Webbox. Por lo que leo en el README es para Sunny Boys! ¿Como puedo detectar el Webbox para posteriormente leer los parámetros del Sunny Island y poder modiciar el registro que te comentaba?

Gracais de nuevo por tu ayuda,
Saludos

"Hello, thanks for your reply! I run the exe and em does not detect the Webbox. From what I read in the README is for Sunny Boys! How can I detect the Webbox to later read the parameters of the Sunny Island and be able to modify the registry that I told you? Thank you again for your help, Best regards"

...

I have not tried programmatically talking to Webbox, only clicking on the GUI. Other equipment I've sometimes been able to talk programmatically by guessing field names based on labels displayed in HTML GUI labels.

By Googling I found this manual "Plant Monitoring SUNNY WEBBOX RPC User Manual" "Remote Procedure Call Description Interfaces and API Definition". You may be able to locate same on a Spanish web page from SMA.

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SWebBoxRPC-BA-en-14.pdf

"No he intentado hablar programáticamente con Webbox, solo hago clic en la GUI. Otros equipos A veces he podido hablar programáticamente adivinando nombres de campo basados en etiquetas que se muestran en etiquetas HTML GUI.

Al buscar en Google encontré este manual "Monitoreo de plantas SUNNY WEBBOX RPC User Manual" "Remote Procedure Call Description Interfaces and API Definition". Es posible que pueda localizarlo en una página web en español de SMA."

 

[daklein]

There's A webbox on ebay now, starting at $110+shipping, tested with data cable & power adapter. An rs485 piggyback card is also required.