System diagram check for truck camper

[filippomasoni]

Hello everyone, after many other parts of the build it's finally come the time to tackle the electrical.

I'm from Italy and will be mostly traveling Europe, so everything is based on metric and 230V AC.

The vehicle is a Ford Ranger single cab with a flatbed and a hard shell composite camper, very small but complete package. Weight reduction is crucial, so many component choices were made for weight and space saving, like the Meanwell inverter instead of Victron saves me 12kg.

Here's the current version of the system diagram:

V1


V2


V3


I'm mostly uncertain about grounding in general, even though I've read the great guides https://diysolarforum.com/resources/grounding-made-simpler-part-4-mobile-systems.159/ by @FilterGuy

The camper is made of composite material and isolated from the chassis, but since I will be using a non-isolated DC-DC that will be my only ground/chassis connection.

1. Is an SPD necessary for the solar panels?
2. Can't find if the Meanwell inverter had a neutral tied to ground, but it has a 'chassis bonding lug'. It will be mounted on aluminum extrusions similar to 8020, do I need to isolate the inverter chassis from the aluminum with rubber?
3. Do I need to ground the shore power to chassis?
4. What's the correct way of sizing ground connections?

If you find any other issue or suggestion please let me know.

 

[HarryN]

Personally, I would not use a DIY cell battery setup in a mobile application.

There are substantial vibrations. If possible, use a commercial battery built from cylindrical cells.

 

[mikefitz]

need to isolate the inverter chassis from the aluminum with rubber?

No bond to your chassis ground bus, 16mm2 cable.

ground the shore power to chassis?

Yes. Local regulations may/will require a double pole isolator between the shore power inlet and any distributed AC. Don't know about Italy but UK regulations require double pole RCD and 16 A MCB. ( Or RCCB) Fitted immediately after the inlet socket. The diagram shows unprotected cable to charger and transfer switch.

What's the correct way of sizing ground connections?

Enough current carrying capacity to allow any upstream supply, AC or DC protection, fuse or breaker, to operate.

Unless your inverter is neutral to earth bonded any RCD, RCCD, won't operate

 

[filippomasoni]

No bond to your chassis ground bus, 16mm2 cable.

Do you mean bonding just the inverter to the ground busbar like the diagram or bonding the aluminum structure to the ground busbar as well?

The diagram shows unprotected cable to charger and transfer switch.

Right, forgot about that, regulation in Italy requires each campsite outlet to be protected by a breaker, so internally it's often skipped, but I was planning on adding one, forgot on the diagram, I'll update it.

Unless your inverter is neutral to earth bonded any RCD, RCCD, won't operate

I didn't think of that. I actually meant to say RCBO which is both residual current and a classical breaker to protect the wires.
I'll see if I find information about the inverter, otherwise I may inspect it when I get.
Basically if neutral and ground are connected then an RCD can do it's purpose, otherwise I only need a regular MCB to protect the wires?

 

[Drizzt321]

Consider maybe a Victron 150/35 or 150/45, rather than 2 separate ones. Put the PV via an appropriate sized MC4 parallel connector, then one one pair of wires penetrating (fewer penetrations!) in, and then to a disconnect switch (probably don't need fuses, almost certainly don't need fuses on each wire). Potentially that could be a DC non-polarized breaker, if you really wanted, that could double as a shutoff switch. Not sure you really need it, since once installed everything is going to remain wired up and doesn't need to be disconnected.

Plus with a single 150/35 you'll be saving space & weight overall, and you can either put in series or parallel.

Would be reasonable to put a fuse or DC breaker disconnect on the MPPT -> bus bars. Again, single fuse on POS is sufficient, no need to put it on both.

Sure doing a separate Inverter & Charger is more space & weight efficient than a single Inverter/Charger unit? Big advantages is you can get one with a built-in transfer switch, and some will even allow top-up from battery if the shore power isn't sufficient (e.g. 15a shore circuit, but AC startup needs, briefly, 20-25a startup say, inverter/charger can supplement from battery to get to that 25a startup).

What's your realistic needs for 230VAC?

The MultiPlus 24/2000/50 https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-MultiPlus-500VA-2000VA-EN.pdf is 15.5kg, the BlueSmart IP22 (https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Blue-Smart-IP22-Charger-230-VAC-EN.pdf) is 1.3kg itself, so you're "at" 14.2kg at that point, plus a bit for wiring, say another 1-2 kg, and then the transfer switch weighs how much? And can't find good docs on the Meanwell inverter, for how much weight it is. The MultiPlus is 1600W continuous (25C), but 3500W surge for startups.

Heck, if you can fit it in the space, EasySolar 24/1600/40 the https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-EasySolar-1600VA-EN.pdf might work for you, 1600VA/1300W (3000W surge) on the AC side, 100/50 on the MPPT solar input, only 16a transfer switch though. Would remove a fair bit of wiring, no transfer switch, etc. Could still parallel the 2 solar panels, although not put in series.

All depends on your 230VAC needs.

 

[Backyard]

I agree with the above. Swap out those two Victron SCCs for one Victron 150/xx and put the panels in series

I'm not so sure you need to tie all your negative lines to ground. There should already be a substantial ground strap from the vehicle battery to ground. Try and limit ground loops. If your local code requires you to ground the casing of each equipment to the earth ground pin on your shore power plug, then by all means. I also wouldn't run the chassis ground to a ground busbar and then to the negative busbar. I'd run it straight to the negative busbar skipping the ground. Bonding can be done at your shore power socket

Otherwise a nicely done diagram

 

[filippomasoni]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I chose to use 2x Victron MPPT 100/20 because they are cheaper than a 150/35, same weight and I have the added benefit or redundancy, if one fails I still have a panel working and I believe they will perform better in case of partial shading than either parallel or series. Prove me wrong if I said some nonsense.

I'll have a single penetration with an waterproof electrical box on top, that I can use to service and bring other things on the roof, like starlink wires, cameras, lights etc. 2 or 4 wires won't be much of a difference.

Quality high voltage DC breakers (not from china) are very expensive and unnecessary for PV, a standard PV fuse holder and fuses are very cheap and can be used as a disconnect in the rare case it's necessary, just pull the fuse door open. I've seen it done many times.

Regarding AC needs, I've specified in the diagram the main load will be an induction cooktop. Most 230V units in Europe are about 3500W, and I'll choose between a few that have an internal setting to limit power to about 2000W, because it'll be more than enough for my needs.
Victron inverters are unfortunately very heavy. I chose the Meanwell because it's a quality brand, I've heard good things about it, even on this forum, and it's about 8kg while the only comparable Victron in the 3000VA which is 2400W continuous, and it's 19kg. The 2000VA is only 1600W continuous, the peak or surge is only for a few seconds which is not enough for the induction. EDIT: also important is the derating curve, Meanwell is 2200W up to 40℃ while the Victron 2000VA is 1450 W. Even with proper forced ventilation it's easy to get to 40℃ in the electrical cabinet.

I've also considered to go with an all in one unit, but they are still much heavier and too big for my space. Also the inverter will stay on only when cooking, otherwise everything will run on DC, so I prefer to have separate components. Plus I've already got the Victron charger on sale on amazon.
Meanwell and Cotek are the only lightweight inverter made by a reputable brand I found. If you have any other suggestion please let me know.

I'm not so sure you need to tie all your negative lines to ground. There should already be a substantial ground strap from the vehicle battery to ground. Try and limit ground loops. If your local code requires you to ground the casing of each equipment to the earth ground pin on your shore power plug, then by all means. I also wouldn't run the chassis ground to a ground busbar and then to the negative busbar. I'd run it straight to the negative busbar skipping the ground. Bonding can be done at your shore power socket

Otherwise a nicely done diagram

Thanks. The green ground busbar is just a visual way to make it clear on the diagram at the moment, when I have all the connections figured out and found the placement, I might just ground the only 3-4 wires directly to the negative bus. But the current path will be the same, I'll have a single wire going to chassis, the entire camper, being composite is completely isolated from metal. I don't see any ground loops in the diagram.

 

[Drizzt321]

I chose to use 2x Victron MPPT 100/20 because they are cheaper than a 150/35, same weight and I have the added benefit or redundancy, if one fails I still have a panel working and I believe they will perform better in case of partial shading than either parallel or series. Prove me wrong if I said some nonsense.

Honestly the SmartSolar MPPT are quite reliable, I wouldn't worry too much about redundancy, especially if you're slightly overspecced on the capacity. In terms of weight though, the 100/30 (https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...charge-controller-MPPT-100-30-&-100-50-EN.pdf) is 1.3kg, the 150/35 (https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...charge-controller-MPPT-150-35-&-150-45-EN.pdf) is 1.25kg. Can't speak to price differences, I'd think 2 of one would be overall more expansive than 1 of the other, but you know your local prices better than I do.

Although if you're _that_ weight sensitive over every fraction of a kg (it does add up in the end though, that's true), maybe MPPT 75/15 (https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...-MPPT-75-10,-75-15,-100-15,-100-20_48V-EN.pdf) which is 0.5kg each.

As for partial shading, that's why you put them in parallel, rather than series. Parallel panels, even with 1 MPPT, you'll still get full power potential out of the other one. It's series that partial shading will hurt total production. Hm, in that case, a 100/30 or 100/50 would be better than the 150/35. The 100/50 could work if you also wanted to ground mount some for additional production. Problem with that is you'd need fairly close to same voltage panels to put in parallel, and those would obviously be bulky and add weight. *shrug*

Regarding AC needs, I've specified in the diagram the main load will be an induction cooktop. Most 230V units in Europe are about 3500W, and I'll choose between a few that have an internal setting to limit power to about 2000W, because it'll be more than enough for my needs.

Ah, missed that, sorry. Yeah, need a decently sized inverter in that case. Even with the power limiting. Good think you're doing 24v system.

Have you added up the weight of the transfer switch, associated additional wiring, and potentially needing a slightly smaller bus-bars to connect everything together? If you're that incredibly weight conscious, a 4 position bus-bar is going to be lighter (in theory) than a 6+ position bus bar (assuming 1 MPPT, Inverter-Charger, Orion, Battery). Not sure what you're using to screw/bolt everything down to, but with fewer components you that could be somewhat smaller possibly, which could mean more grams saved. *shrug* Entirely up to you, just trying to also give some alternate possibilities.

Quality high voltage DC breakers (not from china) are very expensive and unnecessary for PV, a standard PV fuse holder and fuses are very cheap and can be used as a disconnect in the rare case it's necessary, just pull the fuse door open. I've seen it done many times.

Why not just get a basic disconnect switch then? Something like https://richsolar.com/collections/b...pole-thermal-type-waterproof-circuit-breakers is OK as a breaker, but works fine as a disconnect as well. Or something like https://richsolar.com/collections/breakers-switches/products/battery-switch-on-off-275a, which should still be pretty cheap. Like I said, once installed, I don't imagine you're going to be moving things around much at all. If it was me I wouldn't worry about a fuse or disconnect switch.

You definitely don't need to put a fuse on _both_ lines. If you still want to, just put on the POS side. No need for more (fewer components and more weight saved).

I'll have a single penetration with an waterproof electrical box on top, that I can use to service and bring other things on the roof, like starlink wires, cameras, lights etc. 2 or 4 wires won't be much of a difference.

Fair enough, didn't know there was going to be a significant amount of other wiring stuffs as well.



Hmmmm... a bit heavy, 26kg, but the EasySolar II 24/3000/70-32 might actually weight about the same or less, since it replaces a LOT of your components all in one (true, no redundancy, but Victron tends to be quite reliable). Does your MPPT, Inverter (2400W continuous, 2200W at 40C), Charger, Transfer Switch, and a single set of wires to the bus bars. I'd actually start running through your list of parts and estimate of wire length and start adding up the weight, you might be close to breaking even. Also include cost estimates. Might not make the cut, but still worth estimating.

Consider it, and also measure out the space needed. It'll simplify your wiring by a lot is my guess. Not sure why you are needing to be so careful of the weight, but you have your reasons.

 

[filippomasoni]

You're bringing some valid points for sure, which I'll consider and update the diagram.

But as far as weight I've already done the calculations when considering the easy solar.
2x MPPT + charger + inverter = 2x0.65 + 1.3 + 8 = 10.6
I haven't calculated the weight of wires, lugs, bolts etc and you're right it will add some weight, but it's gonna be far from 15kg of difference. Everything will be close by in the same cabinet, and the only big and heavy wire for the inverter won't change anyway. The transfer switch is the size of a small din breaker, maybe less than 100g.

By the way the 2 MPPT I'm considering are the 100/20 versions, recommend by victron online calculator with the solar panel specs. The 100/20 is only 0.65kg, is smaller than the 100/30 or 150/30, it's on a different product line all together.

But since you mentioned additional ground mount panels, I did in fact consider the possibility of adding foldable panels, maybe in future, and since those will be different models they would require e separate MPPT, in that case probably a small 75/10 so heaving 3 MPPT would probably be silly. I could consider having the panels in parallel with the 100/30, which is the same weight as 2x 100/20, half wires, connections, fuse/breaker/switch.

As far as fusing both positive and negative PV I've always wondered why but I've seen many designs like that and just assumed it was correct. Even professional residential installs that I've seen.
https://co-en.rs-online.com/product/abb/e91-32pv/70318948/ this is what I mean, they are cheap, specifically made for PV rated for 1000V DC. The switches you suggested are only rated for 48V which my PV can exceed and made for high currents which is unnecessary.

 

[Drizzt321]

But as far as weight I've already done the calculations when considering the easy solar.
2x MPPT + charger + inverter = 2x0.65 + 1.3 + 8 = 10.6
I haven't calculated the weight of wires, lugs, bolts etc and you're right it will add some weight, but it's gonna be far from 15kg of difference. Everything will be close by in the same cabinet, and the only big and heavy wire for the inverter won't change anyway. The transfer switch is the size of a small din breaker, maybe less than 100g.

Ah, all the same cabinet regardless, ok. And agreed, the lugs/wires/etc are unlikely to make up _that_ much weight.

I'm still unsure why you're counting every gram it seems, unless you have some other heavy weight stuff you're packing on there that isn't a part of the solar/electrical that we're not aware of.

By the way the 2 MPPT I'm considering are the 100/20 versions, recommend by victron online calculator with the solar panel specs. The 100/20 is only 0.65kg, is smaller than the 100/30 or 150/30, it's on a different product line all together.

But since you mentioned additional ground mount panels, I did in fact consider the possibility of adding foldable panels, maybe in future, and since those will be different models they would require e separate MPPT, in that case probably a small 75/10 so heaving 3 MPPT would probably be silly. I could consider having the panels in parallel with the 100/30, which is the same weight as 2x 100/20, half wires, connections, fuse/breaker/switch.

Ah, I see, the 100/20 is part of the same "line" as the 75/15, gotcha. Didn't catch that. Why not go for 75/15 then, unless the price is exactly the same? Your panels won't, even cold, get close to 75v max input.

I wouldn't use folding solar panels to parallel in unless they're very similar voltage, which is unlikely in a "folding" panel. You'd want a separate charge controller for that, and likely need to serial them because most are "12v" (so typically ~18-20Vmp), which you need typically, I think, +2v above battery voltage for most MPPT to be able to kick in and start charging. There are some "24v" folding panels out there. Even so, they wont' be similar voltage to your main panels, so I'd recommend a separate charge controller for that.

If you do plan to do a ground mount, I can send you some Amphenol quick connect/disconnect, FAR superior to MC4 for regular connect/disconnect while still handling up to 20a and is waterproof.

As far as fusing both positive and negative PV I've always wondered why but I've seen many designs like that and just assumed it was correct. Even professional residential installs that I've seen.
https://co-en.rs-online.com/product/abb/e91-32pv/70318948/ this is what I mean, they are cheap, specifically made for PV rated for 1000V DC. The switches you suggested are only rated for 48V which my PV can exceed and made for high currents which is unnecessary.

I haven't really seen any designs, especially mobile, with fusing on both wires. Now _technically_ given potential for lightning/etc fusing on both wires is potentially better design. But IMO that'd be more fixed solar (house, ground array, etc) than in a mobile application.

If you're going to stick with dual charge controllers, I'd just use 1 of those and put the POS of each panel through each side separately, if you're going to definitely fuse the panels. I still wouldn't just reach in there and pull the fuses, they aren't like DC circuit breakers that are designed to quench an arc. If there is power flowing through them you could get an arc trying to pull the fuses, just like trying to pull MC4 connectors apart. So regardless, throw a towel or thick tarp or something over top of the panels to pull the fuses. Or just not bother.

And I wasn't necessarily saying _those_ switches themselves, just something like that in general. Although good catch on the higher PV voltage than rating.

Not sure what you have available in your part of the world, but Langir breakers, like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B012MWNSY8, seem to be reasonably decent. Could use them instead. Now I have one and I do have both poles hooked up (solar in from top) because my only solar is ground mount, so I have to connect/disconnect whenever I'm moving (old vintage travel trailer). If I had my roof mounted, decent chance I'd just have them hardwired.

But happy to have someone being paranoid and add some extra safety into your system

 

[HRTKD]

I agree with the comments about using a Multiplus 24/3000. It would mean that you can combine the Meanwell inverter, the transfer switch and the Blue Smart Charger as well as reducing the amount of wiring. I'm beating a dead horse here I know.

I don't know how cramped for space you'll be but a digital layout plan never seems to work out as well as the physical layout. No plan survives contact with the wire. Actual wire doesn't bend as well as digital wire.

 

[Drizzt321]

I agree with the comments about using a Multiplus 24/3000. It would mean that you can combine the Meanwell inverter, the transfer switch and the Blue Smart Charger as well as reducing the amount of wiring. I'm beating a dead horse here I know.

I don't know how cramped for space you'll be but a digital layout plan never seems to work out as well as the physical layout. No plan survives contact with the wire. Actual wire doesn't bend as well as digital wire.

OP seems more concerned with weight, rather than with space. I think it ended up being ~8-9kg of weight savings, give or take. Maybe slightly less.

 

[filippomasoni]

I've updated the diagram, including and RCBO after the shore power inlet, before anything else. I've removed the negative bus as it was just a visual complication, so all the grounds go to negative busbar and that is tied to the chassis of the Ranger in just one place, this should avoid any ground loops.

I've also added an Anderson connector because of the rare case I'll have to unload the camper from the truck. The SB50 only support up to 16mm wire unfortunately. From Victron manual of the Orion XS it recommends 16mm wire up to 5m, but calculating voltage drop on the 12V line it would be substantial, do you think it's necessary to go up one size to 25mm like the diagram?

I've put the panels in parallel and placed a 100/30 with a single fuse and disconnect like advised. For sure a cleaner install. I'll see if I find a decent DC breaker to simplify even more. I don't like Chinese breakers from amazon, but I prefer reputable brands like ABB, Schneider, Bticino etc for this kind of stuff.

Ah, I see, the 100/20 is part of the same "line" as the 75/15, gotcha. Didn't catch that. Why not go for 75/15 then, unless the price is exactly the same? Your panels won't, even cold, get close to 75v max input.

Victron calculator is recommending the 100/20 for that situation, not sure why the 75/15 is not considered, it would be even smaller given it doesn't have the heatsink at the back. For a parallel install it says to go with a 100/30 which is actually cheaper that 2 100/20 and same weight, but saving space and less wiring will definitely help clean up the install like you suggested. If I manage to find a foldable panel with enough voltage I'll add a 75/15 in future so that I can deploy the panel on ground if needed. Regarding parallel connection, is it better to do it with MC4 outside or without inside the electrical box?




Regarding Inverter and weight, the multiplus was my first choice, I was set on that for a long time, but as I was building the entire camper and trying to keep track of weight I realized many small things add up quickly. Without going into too many details, I don't want to end up too close to the GVM and sacrifice bringing stuff around or worse having to find ways to shed weight after the build is done, I've heard this too many times.
I'll have 160L of water, 48kg for the batteries, 40kg for the two solar panels (I've debated flexible ones, but very expensive, can't utilize the space efficiently and can't reach that power, plus need a way of isolating them from the camper roof to avoid overheating and transferring that to the habitat)
So in the end I decided saving 10kg on the inverter was worth it. If one day I end up shipping the truck to the US and traveling America, which is a future goal, I could just swap the Victron charger for a 120V version pretty easily without changing the inverter or finding bulky transformer systems.

I don't know how cramped for space you'll be but a digital layout plan never seems to work out as well as the physical layout. No plan survives contact with the wire. Actual wire doesn't bend as well as digital wire.

Definitely agree with that, it happened with every part of the build (I've hated plumbing) and I'm sure will happen with the electrical as well lol. But a compact din transfer switch alongside the two other din breakers that I need with 2.5mm wire won't be the issue, more likely the huge list of DC loads, relays and esphome devices for home assistant that I haven't listed on the diagram yet.

 

[Drizzt321]

I've also added an Anderson connector because of the rare case I'll have to unload the camper from the truck. The SB50 only support up to 16mm wire unfortunately. From Victron manual of the Orion XS it recommends 16mm wire up to 5m, but calculating voltage drop on the 12V line it would be substantial, do you think it's necessary to go up one size to 25mm like the diagram?

Good plan. You can always go for a pair, run 2 slightly smaller wires. A pain, but that'd work fine. Just make sure things are shut off before disconnecting/connecting. I believe the Orion also has a software Off via BT, at least my Orion Tr Isolated does, so that'd suffice for a "shut off" switch, as it were, if needed. As long as little to no current is flowing, that should be fine.

Regarding parallel connection, is it better to do it with MC4 outside or without inside the electrical box?

Doesn't really make a difference. Might be easier to have it outside the junction/penetration box so it takes up less space, but fundamentally whatever works best for you. There are paralleling connectors that are wires with a Y junction in the middle, or are a bunch of MC4 that looks sorta like what a bus might look like, so to speak. Either way overrate, make sure it can handle 30a, since combined yours can peak a bit over 20a.

Regarding Inverter and weight, the multiplus was my first choice, I was set on that for a long time, but as I was building the entire camper and trying to keep track of weight I realized many small things add up quickly. Without going into too many details, I don't want to end up too close to the GVM and sacrifice bringing stuff around or worse having to find ways to shed weight after the build is done, I've heard this too many times.
I'll have 160L of water, 48kg for the batteries, 40kg for the two solar panels (I've debated flexible ones, but very expensive, can't utilize the space efficiently and can't reach that power, plus need a way of isolating them from the camper roof to avoid overheating and transferring that to the habitat)
So in the end I decided saving 10kg on the inverter was worth it.

That's a LOT of water, a ton of weight. Yeah, with all the other bits and bobs of fittings...at a certain point you do need to really look at trimming back weight everywhere you can manage it.

It's a real shame we generally have to choose between glass covered panels (weight) and the semi-flexible ones that tend to break down relatively quickly. I'm really interested to see/hear from people with panels like https://www.topunive.com/product_details/42.html that have them outside full-time. I'm using these as folding portable ground mount (doing my own frame & hinges & such), but won't be outside in the sun full time, so not really going to see the long term durability. They're so thin and light they're a lot closer to the traditional semi-flexible, yet they still have an aluminum rim and a slight bit of flex. Would be perfect for your application, assuming durability is better than the normal flex panels. Very light weight, high efficiency. Only it's a "12v" panel, so you'd need 2 in series to give you enough voltage. Which is actually how I'm running mine, even though I have a 12v system, so I can get less power loss due to voltage drop on the long wiring runs. Use the MPPT to drop the voltage down to my battery system voltage.

 

[filippomasoni]

Great, thanks.

That's a LOT of water, a ton of weight. Yeah, with all the other bits and bobs of fittings...at a certain point you do need to really look at trimming back weight everywhere you can manage it.

Yeah I kind of overdid it a bit lol, it's two 80L tanks, but I guess I can always fill them less if I want to stay light.

It's a real shame we generally have to choose between glass covered panels (weight) and the semi-flexible ones that tend to break down relatively quickly. I'm really interested to see/hear from people with panels like https://www.topunive.com/product_details/42.html that have them outside full-time.

Yeah it's a shame. Those look nice, but given the size I could only fit 6 of those and have 600W instead of 880W with the rigid panels. Most flexible or semiflexible are small output and fitting multiple weird size panels on a confined space is difficult. I don't think I can get anywhere close to 800W without using the rigid glass panels. Plus to make them last a bit longer and avoid cooking the inside of the camper with heat in summer, some sort of spacing has to be designed, which mitigates part of the weight saving. Heck I've see a YouTube video where they made an aluminum structure around flexible panels to raise them which made them probably as heavy as rigid ones.

I love the outdoors and remote places, so I prioritized what would give me more time without reaching town, so I'll have to sacrifice something else, it's all about compromise. The perfect rig or system doesn't exist, everyone has different priorities. But electrical safety and reliability is a priority.

 

[Drizzt321]

Great, thanks.


Yeah I kind of overdid it a bit lol, it's two 80L tanks, but I guess I can always fill them less if I want to stay light.


Yeah it's a shame. Those look nice, but given the size I could only fit 6 of those and have 600W instead of 880W with the rigid panels. Most flexible or semiflexible are small output and fitting multiple weird size panels on a confined space is difficult. I don't think I can get anywhere close to 800W without using the rigid glass panels. Plus to make them last a bit longer and avoid cooking the inside of the camper with heat in summer, some sort of spacing has to be designed, which mitigates part of the weight saving. Heck I've see a YouTube video where they made an aluminum structure around flexible panels to raise them which made them probably as heavy as rigid ones.

I love the outdoors and remote places, so I prioritized what would give me more time without reaching town, so I'll have to sacrifice something else, it's all about compromise. The perfect rig or system doesn't exist, everyone has different priorities. But electrical safety and reliability is a priority.

So that's why you went with such large fresh water tanks, lol. But...don't forget grey water storage for when you're in totally remote areas. Leave no trace!

Even for rigid glass panels, you need some sort of structure to hold them down well, although I suppose Z brackets can be enough and are minimal weight. I'm actually finding using a fair amount of angle aluminum & casement hinges for my panels, it's still going to be significantly lighter than even 1 traditional glass panel, even without any hinge/stand. I'm still working on them, got distracted by needing to do some trailer repair and been a bit rainy, so with no indoor workshop area haven't been able to continue working on them.

Not going to knock you for preferring the 800W, I'm very much a proponent of more panel area better to have a reserve. But also seems, other than your induction cook top & water heater, neither of which will run full time, you don't actually have that much power loads. Even one of the 12/24v compressor fridge/chest things don't draw too much. Stick with what your plan is, but my reading is you'd probably be fine with 600W. However...if you're in grey/rainy weather for more than a couple of days, you probably will be very glad you've got the extra panel area

Actually, a pair of flexible panels might be great, if you have a place to stash them, with one of the 75/15 controllers to throw out on the ground for additional power if you end up in major need. Future thought, if you find you end up needing that.

 

[HRTKD]

My prior camper's fresh water tank held 120 gallons. The current camper is 100 gallons, but the mfg cheats and counts the 10 gallon water heater as part of that. Terrible loss of capacity.

I use a 150 gallon collapsible water bladder for those times where I need to refill my fresh water tank but don't want to move the camper. That's probably not an option for you unless you can drop the camper off the truck.

I had planned to put four 200 watt panels on the roof of the prior camper, but when I did the layout in CAD, it wouldn't work. So I went with two 320 watt panels.

RV's are full of compromises.

 

[Drizzt321]

Ha! I have a trailer (14.5 ft total length), and 100 gallons seems insanely large.

 

[Backyard]

I'm putting in a 250 gallon (948 liter) freshwater and gray water tank in my camper. Your guys tanks look small and light to me

 

[Drizzt321]

How freaking big is your trailer? 40 ft 5th wheel or something? Jeeze... Are you living out of it full time I hope?

 

[Backyard]

How freaking big is your trailer? 40 ft 5th wheel or something? Jeeze... Are you living out of it full time I hope?

Haha. I'm slowly converting a 30.5 foot horse trailer to a camper. It's got pretty beefy axles and stout frame. So, weight isn't my biggest fear. Other then what it will do pulling it. I have a 3500HD DRW Duramax to help counter that issue too

 

[Drizzt321]

Well, ~16 gallons is plenty for me for a week here or there. And I have a couple 5 gallon cubes to supplement just in case when I'm out in the desert longer.

Anyways... back on subject. Seems like filippomasoni now has a refined system, and the whole weight thing is making a lot more sense now. I think pickup truck and figure plenty of weight capacity...but once adding all the things on, especially that much water... yeah.

 

[filippomasoni]

We have the demonstration that it's all relative to everyone's needs. Too much water for some can be too little to others

I contacted Meanwell about neutral - ground bond of the inverter and they confirmed "Internally Neutral is floated to FG" .. "If you want to connect Neutral to FG yourself, it might be easier to order TB type where you can access the N and FG on the terminal block."

So I've updated the diagram with a neutral - ground bond after the inverter output. This way I can safely have an RCB after the transfer switch and then I've split into two small breaker to handle induction and outlets separately. 1DIN 1P MCB breakers are pretty small and inexpensive anyway. It just look a bit of a waste to have two RCB, one after shore power inlet and one after the switch. Or maybe in this case an MCB can be enough to just protect the wire? At least in Europe we should expect all shore power outlets of campsite to be protected beforehand.



To summarize my initial doubts:

1. Is an SPD necessary for the solar panels? Not necessary
2. Can't find if the Meanwell inverter had a neutral tied to ground, but it has a 'chassis bonding lug'. It will be mounted on aluminum extrusions similar to 8020, do I need to isolate the inverter chassis from the aluminum with rubber? Manual neutral ground bond after the output
3. Do I need to ground the shore power to chassis? When I'm plugged in, ground and neutral if it's bonded will be shared with all the negative of the DC system, is that correct?
4. What's the correct way of sizing ground connections? same as other wires?

 

[HRTKD]

What's the correct way of sizing ground connections? same as other wires?

There's a current thread (as of this week) that discusses that very subject. Conclusion: same size or one size smaller.

 

[filippomasoni]

I've been doing some research, and I now understand the neutral ground bonding, it's needed for a RCD to work and I can do it after the inverter, so that's fine.

But still remain my question number 3:

Do I need to ground the shore power to chassis? When I'm plugged in, ground and neutral will be shared with all the negative of the DC system, and therefore the vehicle. Is that correct?

Since many inverter with AC-in only close the neutral ground circuit when off-grid and open it when connected to grid, I would say the shore power ground should not be connected to ground, as the AC ground would be done by the real ground of the shore power, of course assuming they've done it correctly.