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Tewaycell 10kwh Sodium-Ion 48V with Built-in Inverter

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Balderdashian

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I'm not even suggesting anyone buy this (other than Will to review), but it's just kind of incredible that a non-lithium battery is actually available on the market for sale directly to consumers. I know some basic 12V units have been available but this is the first fully assembled sodium-ion system I've seen.

It's $200 more than the LFE version and weighs 140kg instead of 111kg. It really looks like this tech is going to take off big time in the next few years. The inherent cost to produce sodium is so much lower than lithium. I just can't see this not being the dominant battery tech for stationary installations in the near future.
 
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The problem I see with sodium ion currently, is that most hardware (inverters/chargers) will not work well with the wide voltage range of this chemistry. Lifepo4 fits in well, because the voltage range at a pack level, is somewhat similar to a Lead-acid battery, which most hardware already supports.
But the sodium ion has a wide voltage range which most hardware doesn't support. So you are limited to using on a partial capacity of the sodium ion battery.
 
Ugh..
Na-chemistry have clearly pita-voltage curve. (Even steeper than Pb? or at least similar.)
I think that will be a huge disadvantage in competition with LFP.
 
MrSparkle said:
Ugh..
Na-chemistry have clearly pita-voltage curve. (Even steeper than Pb? or at least similar.)
I think that will be a huge disadvantage in competition with LFP.
Click to expand...

It's an engineering challenge. I'm sure as the availability of the chemistry improves and costs decrease, more hardware with support for it will be released.
 
MrSparkle said:
Ugh..
Na-chemistry have clearly pita-voltage curve. (Even steeper than Pb? or at least similar.)
I think that will be a huge disadvantage in competition with LFP.
Click to expand...
What is the disadvantage? The voltage curve makes it trivial to determine SOC without the bother of BMS communications.
 
Sodium cells get really low voltage on the low end of SOC. Like 1.8 or so, not sure. So you would need an inverter to work from 15-18v to 60v
That is the engineering challenge. if I dropped a sodium ion battery in my 6000xp, I wouldnt be able to use more than 50% of the SOC i would guess.
 
I have two Sodium packs, 12 v and 24 v
I can use +/- the whole capacity at 12v but not at 24v because my inverter can not follow the full voltage range of the sodium pack.
This is not the fault of the sodium cells, it is simply a limitation of the inverters.
I didn't even bother to try 48 volt, since the more cells you add, the greater the range of voltage you need, if you want to use the full capacity.
My soduim cells claim 3000 cycle life - much lower than LFP.
The main advantage of sodium is far wider temperature range compared to LFP.
Sodium should be a great option for hot climate areas, and not need to condition the space.
I don't know the differences for fire potential or thermal run-away. marketing data said Na is better, Maybe someone who knows can chime in.
 
ScrotpusGobbleBottom said:
Sodium cells get really low voltage on the low end of SOC. Like 1.8 or so, not sure. So you would need an inverter to work from 15-18v to 60v
That is the engineering challenge. if I dropped a sodium ion battery in my 6000xp, I wouldnt be able to use more than 50% of the SOC i would guess.
Click to expand...
This "Mica" sodium battery has voltage range 39-54.6V. That is within the capabilities of many 48V inverters, including Victron. Have seen some others in that voltage range.

(Note: just pulled it randomly off the internet and have no experience using it.)
 
Drunk Engineer said:
This "Mica" sodium battery has voltage range 39-54.6V. That is within the capabilities of many 48V inverters, including Victron. Have seen some others in that voltage range.

(Note: just pulled it randomly off the internet and have no experience using it.)
Click to expand...
That is better than I was thinking! I hope its true.
 
my sodium 12v pack is 8v to 15.6
to use it with the MPP 1012 I have to dial down the max voltage to 15.5 (I actually use 15.4 to be sure) and I cut off the low voltage at 10v but the inverter does allow lower in the settings.
If we assume x 4 then the low to high for 48-volt pack would be 32v to 62.4v to use the full capacity of the cells.
I suspect they are not using the full capacity of the sodium cells if the range is 39-54.6 they are limiting it to match the inverter.
@Hedges posted the available range of the SMA units a while back - caught my attention because it was closer to the full range of the sodium cells.

edit: darn Hedges, he has way too many posts, I was trying to find that voltage range for the SMA he talked about, but wow he posts a lot. lol.
 

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OffGridForGood said:
my sodium 12v pack is 8v to 15.6
to use it with the MPP 1012 I have to dial down the max voltage to 15.5 (I actually use 15.4 to be sure) and I cut off the low voltage at 10v but the inverter does allow lower in the settings.
If we assume x 4 then the low to high for 48-volt pack would be 32v to 62.4v to use the full capacity of the cells.
I suspect they are not using the full capacity of the sodium cells if the range is 39-54.6 they are limiting it to match the inverter.
@Hedges posted the available range of the SMA units a while back - caught my attention because it was closer to the full range of the sodium cells.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately crossing over 60v is a problem for most 48v inverters too. Right?
So we have limitations on both ends.
 
Still the sodium are better than lead-acid - you get more usable capacity from them, and good in cold or very hot conditions, better than LPF for temperature extremes
 
I have now been thinking a bit about efficiency and conversion losses.
Is it more challenging for manufacturers to build inverters with high enough conversion efficiency from a wider voltage range compared to narrow voltage range?

If building components required for supporting wide range are more expensive to achieve high enough efficiency, that also affects sales price of the product I believe.

Is there a difference in conversion losses of currently available inverters, compering say FLA/SLA/AGM to LFP?
Some one that took a deep dive investigating that aspect and have insights to share?
 
Watts recently sold out of the 250ah sodium option they carry. ‘zon now has a couple options in the 50ah and 100ah range.
 
I only see raw cells and a single AIO. Where am I missing?

The wider temperature range makes it more useful for a future project.

Outside of the Renogy unit, is there anyone else making a battery/AIO combo unit?
 
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