Texas Solar Charges - Brazos bankruptcy causing me to be charged

[EastTexCowboy]

It's a co-op and Texas has a weird power grid.

I can attest to this. What's really bad about the way things are set up for coops here is they are virtually unregulated. Their argument is the members own the coop so they can do whatever they want. They decide what they want by allowing their elected coop officials to make those decisions. What they don't tell you is that you can't just run for office with the coop. You have to be "sponsored" by one or more existing board members (varies). So it's an exclusive club and you're not going to get in unless you're already part of that club.

I love Texas and agree with much of how things are handled here, but yeah, we have our shortcomings like any other place.

 

[cs1234]

So it's an exclusive club and you're not going to get in unless you're already part of that club.

I love Texas and agree with much of how things are handled here, but yeah, we have our shortcomings like any other place.

Almost everything is like that, almost everywhere. Some clubs have different entry criteria. Still a club.

 

[timselectric]

I'm a club of one. And not taking any new membership applications.

 

[Mattb4]

I can attest to this. What's really bad about the way things are set up for coops here is they are virtually unregulated. Their argument is the members own the coop so they can do whatever they want. They decide what they want by allowing their elected coop officials to make those decisions. What they don't tell you is that you can't just run for office with the coop. You have to be "sponsored" by one or more existing board members (varies). So it's an exclusive club and you're not going to get in unless you're already part of that club.

I love Texas and agree with much of how things are handled here, but yeah, we have our shortcomings like any other place.

Every year my Co-Op sends a ballot to elect the chosen one (there is no opposition candidate)as my Board representative. If you fill it out and mail it back they put you in for a drawing for a TV set. I stopped sending it back a long time ago to save the postage cost since they did not include a stamped return envelope.

 

[HarryN]

I wonder if there is some way that you can split your loads so that your own solar is powering one part of your home or other loads and the grid is a completely separate panel and set of loads?

As an example, your air conditioner compressor is a large load but exterior to the home - so is there a way to just run this from your existing solar arrangement with some modifications?

I am sitting here paying ~ $0.35 / kW-hr for electricity most of the time so while I completely understand your argument and you are right IMHO - $0.02 / kW-hr does seem attractive at the moment.

Having to re-wire it all with new components - I can understand why you would not want to do that. I can also see as a supplier why they would insist on it vs dealing with every brand X setup that comes in.

Ultimately one of the big problems is the NEC requirement of only one power feed coming into a building. If there are power feeds going to external loads ( pool, hot tub, air conditioning compressor, well pump) I am not sure how exactly that is played out.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Sounds to me like the person you spoke to doesn't understand what "off grid" means or that your own system isn't connected to the grid. Perhaps you should talk to someone else and see if you get the same story.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Power can't be managed that way.

What you're doing is akin to arguing that a gym has no right to charge you a monthly membership fee even though the costs to run the gym are the same whether you use it or not.

No it is actually like the Gym saying that if I build a home gym, and have a membership at their Gym that that gives them some right to charge me for both.

 

[Checkthisout]

No it is actually like the Gym saying that if I build a home gym, and have a membership at their Gym that that gives them some right to charge me for both.

My total bad.....


I think I misread the original post. I didn't see the part where the op said he's offgrid and wants to stay that way but someone saw his solar setup and is now demanding he interconnect to the system and they're now going to charge for his own solar output.


Ok. So in this case I'm guessing the power company is possibly mentioned on his land deed or there is some sort of law that gives that particular power company a right to all power within their service district or something like that.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Sounds to me like the person you spoke to doesn't understand what "off grid" means or that your own system isn't connected to the grid. Perhaps you should talk to someone else and see if you get the same story.

I hope you are right!
This type of "photon tax" is a really bad precedent that will led to expansion if left unchecked.
I maintain a utility connection (to allow the grid to be my back up during poor solar weather) and am happy to pay the monthly charge (about $30USD/month) to use zero power - if I don't need any that month. This is fair to the utility and to me, they supply the cables and poles infrastructure and are paid for that. If I also draw energy from their system I pay on top of that minimum charge for each per kWh for the energy they supply. That is fair and reasonable. Heck, if they figure the minimum charge is not enough, then go ahead and recalculate what it needs to be to cover the actual costs, I am fine with that.
But in no world it is right or fair that they also get to charge for what energy I use via solar I produce and use (or don't use) with equipment and systems I bought and paid for, that I maintain and is none of their damn business. What cost did they have to provide the sunshine?

The idea they can charge for power we don't use, is akin to saying we have no right to cut our usage for ANY reason, ie if you use less power by turning off the A/C and just dealing with the heat, they should be allowed to charge you for power you didn't use. I mean, what is the difference (to them) whether you suffered with the heat, or ran an A/C unit totally on solar? If you choose to run a generator all day on natural gas, do they get to also charge you for the kWh you didn't purchase from the electric utility?

 

[Texican]

I hope you are right!
This type of "photon tax" is a really bad precedent that will led to expansion if left unchecked.
I maintain a utility connection (to allow the grid to be my back up during poor solar weather) and am happy to pay the monthly charge (about $30USD/month) to use zero power - if I don't need any that month. This is fair to the utility and to me, they supply the cables and poles infrastructure and are paid for that. If I also draw energy from their system I pay on top of that minimum charge for each per kWh for the energy they supply. That is fair and reasonable. Heck, if they figure the minimum charge is not enough, then go ahead and recalculate what it needs to be to cover the actual costs, I am fine with that.
But in no world it is right or fair that they also get to charge for what energy I use via solar I produce and use (or don't use) with equipment and systems I bought and paid for, that I maintain and is none of their damn business. What cost did they have to provide the sunshine?

The idea they can charge for power we don't use, is akin to saying we have no right to cut our usage for ANY reason, ie if you use less power by turning off the A/C and just dealing with the heat, they should be allowed to charge you for power you didn't use. I mean, what is the difference (to them) whether you suffered with the heat, or ran an A/C unit totally on solar? If you choose to run a generator all day on natural gas, do they get to also charge you for the kWh you didn't purchase from the electric utility?

Im sorry, but you are making too much sense.
This will NOT be tolerated

 

[Rednecktek]

I think I misread the original post. I didn't see the part where the op said he's offgrid and wants to stay that way but someone saw his solar setup and is now demanding he interconnect to the system and they're now going to charge for his own solar output.

AAaahhh, that's the key. Sometimes those little pieces of information makes things make WAY more sense. I do it all the time. ?

If he was on the grid and trying to tie in then you would be right about needing to meter all the power he generates that feeds back. It's the whole Off Grid part that changes everything.

The OP needs to provide a sample power bill to better help us understand. It doesn't say if there is a facilities charge for the regular meter as well.

I think that would look like:
January - N/A (Not a customer)
February- N/A (Not a customer)
March- N/A (Not a customer)
April- N/A (Not a customer)
May- N/A (Not a customer)

?

 

[timselectric]

Actually, the OP has always been off grid.
Now that they want to sell the house.
They either want to (or are required to) have grid connected to the house before selling.
But the power company is making it very complicated. With a bunch of BS rules.

 

[SniperX]

Hey everyone. I currently live off grid, but plan to bring the grid back to my place so I can sell the property in the near future. I live north of Dallas, and will be using Pentex energy. They informed me that they will need to add a second meter to track what I am using from my own solar production so they can charge me for that because of some settlement that came about recently from the Brazos bankruptcy filing from Winter Storm Uri.

I am perplexed that they can charge me for this and was wondering if anyone else has had to deal with this? Icing on the cake is that the inverters I bought earlier this year are the EG4 6500ex which are not grid tie, so Pentex said I would need to buy new ones.

It is only around 1.4 cents per KWH right now, but I am upset more about the principal behind it. I put up the investment for my own system, I purchased inverters that work well for me needs and have the ability to have grid power bypass through it (but then I would be double charged), and they will also be charging me an additional $10 per month for the second meter.

I keep trying to find the details of this settlement to figure out how this can be legal, but I am not having any luck.

Thanks for any help and insight!

Can you put in your contract when you sell the house that you will pay up to say, $10,000 for them to hook to the grid and then remove all your solar (does not convey) before you give them the keys and then the new owner brings power to the house?

 

[cs1234]

Can you put in your contract when you sell the house that you will pay up to say, $10,000 for them to hook to the grid and then remove all your solar (does not convey) before you give them the keys and then the new owner brings power to the house?

If they were paying cash, possibly. I doubt you can do it for somebody that is trying to qualify for a mortgage.

 

[Checkthisout]

If they were paying cash, possibly. I doubt you can do it for somebody that is trying to qualify for a mortgage.

Yeah. Hard to get a mortgage on a house without grid power and water.

Not to mention homeowners insurance to protect the banks asset.

I would think it would be difficult to get insurance on a home with a bunch of unpermitted electrical work.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

Yeah. Hard to get a mortgage on a house without grid power and water.

Not to mention homeowners insurance to protect the banks asset.

I would think it would be difficult to get insurance on a home with a bunch of unpermitted electrical work.

I've bought and sold a lot of houses and never had an insurance company ask for an inspection. They sometimes will come out and do a walkaround and take pictures of the outside, but never once have they asked to go inside. That said, not being connected to the grid could present a problem but not necessarily. I've bought houses we were flipping (20 years ago) and one didn't even have a usable breaker panel. It all depends on the situation. All the same, I've always planned on maintaining my grid connection and installed a manual transfer switch, so if the next owner doesn't want to deal with solar just throw the switch and live on the grid. YMMV depending on the state of course.

 

[Checkthisout]

I've bought and sold a lot of houses and never had an insurance company ask for an inspection. They sometimes will come out and do a walkaround and take pictures of the outside, but never once have they asked to go inside. That said, not being connected to the grid could present a problem but not necessarily. I've bought houses we were flipping (20 years ago) and one didn't even have a usable breaker panel. It all depends on the situation. All the same, I've always planned on maintaining my grid connection and installed a manual transfer switch, so if the next owner doesn't want to deal with solar just throw the switch and live on the grid. YMMV depending on the state of course.

Some things are better in Texas.

Unheard of around here.

 

[cs1234]

There is a big difference between Texas (rural) and Texas (city). You people that live outside of the cities in Texas are smoking crack if you think Texas cities are any better than any other states cities. It's more of a rural/city divide, not a state vs other state divide. I've lived in cities in a bunch of states, red and blue, they are all huge and stinky.

The further you live from politicians (especially large numbers of them), the less intrusion into your life you will have. It's entirely an out of sight out of mind thing. Once they see you, your ass is grass.

 

[sunsurfer]

I just thought of what I am going to say when I speak to the highest up person I can reach at Pentex: “Does your water company keep a rain gauge at your house to charge you for any rain that waters your lawn?” ?

don't give them ideas

 

[EastTexCowboy]

There is a big difference between Texas (rural) and Texas (city). You people that live outside of the cities in Texas are smoking crack if you think Texas cities are any better than any other states cities. It's more of a rural/city divide, not a state vs other state divide. I've lived in cities in a bunch of states, red and blue, they are all huge and stinky.

The further you live from politicians (especially large numbers of them), the less intrusion into your life you will have. It's entirely an out of sight out of mind thing. Once they see you, your ass is grass.

There's a lot of truth right there. Although some of the houses were in smaller cities, that's not the same as big city. And most were in very small cities or rural.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

You people that live outside of the cities in Texas are smoking crack if you think Texas cities are any better than any other states cities.

Smoke cigs and I've smoked cigars, smoked weed twice many decades ago and got sick both times so enough of that, smoked some sausage and pork and bacon and fish, but I've never smoked crack. Maybe drank a shot or two of whiskey along the way...

I think that some big cities are worse than others when it comes to permits, but frankly they're all pretty restrictive. And sometimes invasive.

 

[DIYrich]

Hey everyone. I currently live off grid, but plan to bring the grid back to my place so I can sell the property in the near future. I live north of Dallas, and will be using Pentex energy. They informed me that they will need to add a second meter to track what I am using from my own solar production so they can charge me for that because of some settlement that came about recently from the Brazos bankruptcy filing from Winter Storm Uri.

I am perplexed that they can charge me for this and was wondering if anyone else has had to deal with this? Icing on the cake is that the inverters I bought earlier this year are the EG4 6500ex which are not grid tie, so Pentex said I would need to buy new ones.

It is only around 1.4 cents per KWH right now, but I am upset more about the principal behind it. I put up the investment for my own system, I purchased inverters that work well for me needs and have the ability to have grid power bypass through it (but then I would be double charged), and they will also be charging me an additional $10 per month for the second meter.

I keep trying to find the details of this settlement to figure out how this can be legal, but I am not having any luck.

Thanks for any help and insight!

Might want to get clarification on 2nd meter. As I read the settlement, the coop can no longer own generation. They are purely a distribution system. Most of their bill is fixed. The 2nd meter may be reading what you export, not self consume.

The connection charge may be large. New owner may not want to connect.

 

[Leeds]

I currently live off grid, but plan to bring the grid back to my place so I can sell the property in the near future. I live north of Dallas, and will be using Pentex energy. They informed me that they will need to add a second meter to track what I am using from my own solar production so they can charge me for that because of some settlement that came about recently from the Brazos bankruptcy filing from Winter Storm Uri.

Unless you plan to put your power into their grid the only answer you should offer this person would involve sucking on a specific appendage. Followed by an armed escort off of your property.

The power companies ONLY have any say over the grid and anything that connects to it.

Anyone from any power company suggesting otherwise is either mentally retarded or a scam artist. Either way they get an armed escort off of your property.