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The absolute top-of-the-line Chinese LiFePO4 batteries?

MaximusAnonus

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Hi,
I'm expanding my system and I need about 40 300-ish Ah cells. Years ago I've bought some Winston cells locally here in Europe and while they are still kicking strong the price of about 450-500 USD per cell is just too much.
The 280Ah cells from "Shenzhen Luyuan Technology" from "Mrs. Wan Amy" are about half the price with everything included. Is that the top of the line you can buy in China? Or anyone has any better tips?
 
You can't compare those directly.

The Winstons are much more rugged ones, comparable to Sinopoly and Calb, while the ones from eg Amy are aluminium-cased cells. (Which are cheaper)
Also, some Winston cells are LiFeYPO4, which does have some benefits over LiFePO4 (Lower charging temp), at a higher price.

For the aluminium-cased prismatic cells, the ones from Luyuan (matched) are considered great quality.

As said, it depends on your usecase which type of cells is the best choise.
 
You can't compare those directly.

The Winstons are much more rugged ones, comparable to Sinopoly and Calb, while the ones from eg Amy are aluminium-cased cells. (Which are cheaper)
Also, some Winston cells are LiFeYPO4, which does have some benefits over LiFePO4 (Lower charging temp), at a higher price.

For the aluminium-cased prismatic cells, the ones from Luyuan (matched) are considered great quality.

As said, it depends on your usecase which type of cells is the best choise.
They are just plain LiFePO4. I don't need anything rugged. I have them in custom made steel box anyway. It's just that at the time it was a great deal and available locally.
Use case is a pretty simple household battery. Getting charged from solar and wind, powering a two water heaters and two electric cars plus whatever is needed inside the house.
 
Look at the new 280LFK model
that has just arrived, with a 6000 cycle life. I got a great price from Docan on Alibaba for 16 cells under $2000 shipped to San Francisco.

 
I think the 280K EVE cells are what Amy Wan is selling now also.
 
Look at the new 280LFK model
that has just arrived, with a 6000 cycle life.

Once i see the majority of these cells surpass 6000 cycles, i’ll buy some.

I’ve seen Winston cells that are still going after 5000 cycles, so the concept is sound.

What are the oldest continually cycled EVE cells that anybody has?
 
Once i see the majority of these cells surpass 6000 cycles, i’ll buy some.
So how does that work exactly? Are you looking for someone keeping statistics 20 years from now on how long they last? If they can verify 20 years from now that they really did surpass 6000 cycles, you will buy them? Even though there is almost certainly something better available at that point?

Most (all?) estimations of lifecycle (light bulbs, batteries, etc.) are based on statistical inference. You can't wait until the projected lifetime to decide that it may be right. Either trust the science behind the lifecycle estimate, prove it wrong, or stay with whatever you trust. After a while, those old alkaline batteries will get tired.
 
So how does that work exactly? Are you looking for someone keeping statistics 20 years from now on how long they last? If they can verify 20 years from now that they really did surpass 6000 cycles, you will buy them? Even though there is almost certainly something better available at that point?

Most (all?) estimations of lifecycle (light bulbs, batteries, etc.) are based on statistical inference. You can't wait until the projected lifetime to decide that it may be right. Either trust the science behind the lifecycle estimate, prove it wrong, or stay with whatever you trust. After a while, those old alkaline batteries will get tired.
Yeah I don't get that either.
The price is so low that setting this bar there is nonsense.

We all know that lower DoD increases life on any kind of battery and that across the board lithium will last longer than lead under their respective appropriate conditions for longevity.

Running them up and down twice a day is still 8 years to wait, but falls under the "hard life" category which would likely result in less life anyways. If you do it once a day it's over 16 years to reach 6k.

Then they won't be available, and then he'll say the same about the next available cell model, then ultimately just wait until his death to buy anything lol.

Even if they're only 4000 cycles it's still a better deal than lead over that period at that price.
 
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So how does that work exactly? Are you looking for someone keeping statistics 20 years from now on how long they last? If they can verify 20 years from now that they really did surpass 6000 cycles, you will buy them? Even though there is almost certainly something better available at that point?

Most (all?) estimations of lifecycle (light bulbs, batteries, etc.) are based on statistical inference. You can't wait until the projected lifetime to decide that it may be right. Either trust the science behind the lifecycle estimate, prove it wrong, or stay with whatever you trust. After a while, those old alkaline batteries will get tired.

My first LiFePO4 set is coming up on 10 years old. A decade ago half the people i spoke to said it was pointless having batteries last a decade as “there will be something better”. The other half said they wouldn’t last 5 years.

In another decade or so when these ones are worn out i’ll know if it’s worth buying more like mine, or switching to EVE.

I have had enough first hand experience of chinese LiFePO4 manufacturers making up their specs and recommendations that i will pass on taking them for their word.
 
I'm with you toms. Seems to be alot of folks boasting about the long cycles in the aluminum cells coming out but print is cheap and we're along way from knowing the truth. It's something to see lfp in daily use after 10+ years with little to no pampering. I hope the new aluminum cells hold up as well as the old plastic cells are performing.
 
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Seems like before accusing EVE of lying about their specs .... there should be some kind of evidence of that presented as well.
 
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Like with most things time will tell. We'll just need folks putting them in fulltime off grid use to update in a few or so years how they're performing. :geek:
 
The manufacturers of these cells arent little garage shops, they are huge industries that supply globally to big corporations. Tesla just switched all future cars to LifePo cells, if that makes you feel any better.

If you buy directly from the cell manufacturer and not a shady reseller of old used cells on Alibaba in an attempt to save a few dollars, you will be fine.

If your that suspicious, maybe you should buy a gas powered Sears generator instead. But be aware, it probably contains Chinese parts also.
 
Once i see the majority of these cells surpass 6000 cycles, i’ll buy some.

I’ve seen Winston cells that are still going after 5000 cycles, so the concept is sound.

What are the oldest continually cycled EVE cells that anybody has?
From what I heard the claimed 6k cycles (which is roughly a 2x 'improvement' over the LF280 and LF280N), is achieved by more conservative usage recommendations/assumptions, not any huge advance in the tech/manufacturing process itself. This is second hand info, I haven't seen a datasheet for the new cells, and I've been very out of the loop for the last 6 months. But from what I heard the earlier two models assum 1C/1C charge/discharge, whereas the K model assumes 0.5C/0.5C charge/discharge, under optimal compression @ 25*C.

Edit: yes, just looked at the datasheets, the above is correct.
 
The manufacturers of these cells arent little garage shops, they are huge industries that supply globally to big corporations. Tesla just switched all future cars to LifePo cells, if that makes you feel any better.

If you buy directly from the cell manufacturer and not a shady reseller of old used cells on Alibaba in an attempt to save a few dollars, you will be fine.

If your that suspicious, maybe you should buy a gas powered Sears generator instead. But be aware, it probably contains Chinese parts also.
Basically I agree with you, the first and second paragraph at least, especially the second paragraph. But I would push back a little against the implications of the third.

Recognizing that spec inflation is a real and common thing, is not really that suspicious, mostly its the middlemen and resellers, but manufacturers engage as well. I agree with you that generally speaking the large, legit cell manufacturers are less likely to engage in it, or at least less likely to do so egregiously, but caution, skepticism, and due diligence are well warranted in this market.

And its also fair to acknowledge that compared with the likes of CALB, Winston, and a few others, we (at least most on this forum), don't have the same volume of real world long term data, like many things, lab testing and real world performance may differ greatly, particularly when the lab testing is often just a few hundred rapid cycles and projections based on that. Acknowledging this, doesnt require any skepticism or distrust of the manufacturers, its just the limitations of partial testing and projections, and different real world use-cases (in my opinion).
 
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