The end of Temu
- Thread starter solarhobo
- Start date
As long as it was not added at the register, a national sales tax on imported goods seems fine. and keep it 5% to 10% max. And tax everything the same, don't pick winners and losers among products or countries. And no bailouts for the whiner industries. Also expect others to tax us the same and don't whine about that either.
Otherwise it all seems like a bunch of gamesmanship to make headlines. Eventually it will all go back to the start and we will have been "saved" by the administration of a problem they created.
No tax cuts on anything until the budget is in surplus and the debt has dropped 10% from the peak.
Because it's completely different. A VAT is only paid by the end consumer, meaning that importers of components used to build products are not penalized in doing so. They don't pay the VAT - only the end user of the final product does. With tariffs, you make the product (or part of a product) more expensive from the start, which then gets more expensive for the end user (who then likely still has to pay a sales tax on that too). In addition, tariffs can make entire products unfeasible, no matter how much you want manufacturing to come back, because the supply chains and know-how are not available, and it would take decades to change that - at which point you'll still be stuck with a (much) more expensive product.
You can't, for example, just decide to build an LFP battery factory and think you'll be up and running in a year or two. And by the time you do have the factory running, it'll be obsolete. You're playing catch up. Instead, what you can do is use the current situation as it is and use the availability of e.g. cheap LFP cells to build the next best thing, and then keep that internally to yourself with a local factory and the whole shebang.
The latter is what I do with my company: we have the entire production process of our product (radiation detectors) internal for the critical parts (the actual sensor). We have a supply chain that does not rely on China or other potentially troublesome places (which today sadly includes the US). We work with local companies (read EU wide) for this. We're best in class and have some features and abilities that the competition isn't even close to having. If we would have gone with GM tubes or Sodium Iodide we'd have been stuck competing with everyone else and wouldn't have been able to innovate in the field, let alone justify a local production. However we do use off-the-shelf stuff like microcontrollers and the like to make it work - if those get tariff on them, it would just increase our costs and the end product price.
Dagoth Ur Does Solar
Solar Addict
I'm ready for a trade deal or a war to break out just so I can stop seeing new tariff threads every day. 
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42OhmsPA
Who likes Electrical Gremlins?
Post's 17 and 21 are where it went political, in my opinion.
Think about who will be paying 30x the labor cost in the US.
robby
Electronic Engineer
- Joined
- May 1, 2021
- Messages
- 5,392
I have been trying to explain that but it's hard when most people look around and see that everything is fine and the stores are still full.
The hit's you mention are going to be a big part what people don't see coming.
America's importance to Chinese manufacturing is on the same level as America's importance to Drug Companies.
A Chinese factory makes 1,000,000 USB-C Charges for phones. 400K units may make there way to America at a price of $3 each. The remaining 600K are sold to other countries but for only $1-$2 Each.
What makes the Chinese Factory Viable is the 400K units they sell to the US at top dollar.
Just like how Drug companies make most of their money selling to Americans while other countries get the same drug for a third of the price.
If China looses the American Market then many of the factories that manufacturer components used in Items manufactured outside of China will not be available.
Folks expect empty shelves very soon. I don't know whether to tell people to buy now or to save your cash to weather out the storm.
Frugal Devonian
Solar Enthusiast
Deleted - bad form/not relevant.
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HighDesertOffgrid
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2022
- Messages
- 919
I currently own one item from this list. Craftsman 480 pc. Mechanic's tool set purchased in 1989.
There are an abundance of those at my local thrift store.
Clothes? You don't have thriftstores in Spain. More clothes there than you will ever need.
I look forward to a renaissance of cobblers, blacksmiths, and TV repairmen in the US. It will do our disposable society some good.
The question seems to be not whether Walmart and Amazon will "hold out" but what the definition of "holding out" indeed is in the first place.
If we don't let this all play out and discover where our *true* trade pinch points are over a longer period of time versus artificially 'proven' through the day to day handing out of exceptions to large swaths of the market...this will all end up being nothing but the greatest market manipulation/swindle in world history.
We need a solid profit-taking number quantifying each and every 'never mind' and/or tariff change to date and later add/compare those insider only numbers with the additional profit-taking certain to occur if and/or when these tariffs become nothing but the sad joke of but a sliver in world history:
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chill633
Solar Enthusiast
Planet will revise so much tougher in China that the ships going back need ballast, meaning almost anything shipping that way is practically free.
In a world that keeps oil prices artificially low, and oil is fuel. Shipping is already the cheapest method of moving goods, so bulk shipping going back is almost nothing.
chill633
Solar Enthusiast
Trying to get back on topic, I was looking for another Mr. Cool multi-zone heat pump and everywhere I look is out of stock. Their Amazon store shows out of stock. The places I bought before show out of stock. Home Depot says they have some so I will make a decision tomorrow. Do I believe them or do I pick another brand? I need another heat pump for the house before summer.
Hint to EG4 -- multi-zone, please.
Hint to EG4 -- multi-zone, please.
Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
You must be new to the internet.
SplitUniverse
New Member
I've listened to this argument so many times it makes want to puke:
Here's the long term trend of the "house price" / "median yearly income":
Home Price to Income Ratio - Updated Chart | Longtermtrends
Historically, an average house in the US cost around 5 times the yearly household income. The ratio in this chart divides the Case-Shiller Home Price Index by the US median annual household income.
www.longtermtrends.net
Just so nobody gets the wrong idea: I'm one of the lucky ones who managed to buy a house after the mortgage bust, I also keep paying for it with scraped knuckles and busted knees every time something needs fixing, ... I also don't starve or sleep under the bridge, at least for now (there are no guarantees in life); I also don't drive a late model "insert your favorite luxury brand" car, ...; I'm just a regular guy who would like to see this country succeed long term and keep the debate civilized.
On the matter of kids "getting things", the REAL civilized world recognized a LONG TIME AGO that kids are a common good, they are "raised, fed and educated by the village" because in the end it is them that will pay for your (and mine) medical bills and social security and whatever else comes along when we get older. That is a real meritocracy and democracy; you put all the kids on level playing field and you let them sort it out and prove who is the best and who can help us as a society the most, no who's got the most influential parents. It's also them who will pay for whatever stupid stuff we engage in today and it will be them paying in blood for the freedoms we don't care about today. FREEDOM just happens to include the word FREE, in fact it's the most precious and expensive thing in this world.
Anything else is just the start on the path to autocracy and "royal lineage". As a society it doesn't matter if it's your kid or my kid or the kid who was born in an immigrant detention facility becomes the guy that discovers the next great thing, the guy that leads this country to new diplomatic heights, the guy that invents the cure to god knows what nasty disease that pops it's ugly head in a few years (from the thawed permafrost, etc), etc; what matters is that we have those kids and that they are part of This society and Contributing to its success instead of hiding their cash in Switzerland, Ireland or some other tax paradise.
P.S. Sorry for the rant, it just sickens me seeing how many "dynasties" this supposedly "cradle of freedom and democracy" has, ....
fuzzmunky415
Solar Enthusiast
And if you need cheap electro schwag, I have drawers full of phone cables, Ethernet cables, USB a b c to z cables, routers and switches, walkie talkies, analog cells phones ( still have my original Motorola bag phone!), digital cell phones, old car speakers, headphones , amps, various cooking appliances, and handheld remotes to who knows what, you supply the batteries. Yes, you can take it all ..
fatjay
Solar Wizard
That's where an EV comes in handy.
fuzzmunky415
Solar Enthusiast
Check Costco, got mine from there,still waiting for install,larger project.
DPC
Canada, Great already
Hes orange and made mostly of comb over
It can be cathartic.
The factory makes a profit, the shipper makes money, and Walmart makes a profit. There is not $20 in any one pocket, it is slim margins all around. There is no price elasticity here. The theory that producers are going to eat the tariffs is totally delusional, but in keeping with the theories being practiced in the administration.
Question: how many solar panels, inverters, and LFP batteries are based on foreign production?
Answer: nearly all of them.
Very few of us, nearly zero, would have the solar energy systems we have if we had to source it entirely within USA. Shut our borders and there is no solar energy movement in the USA.
Mike C.
fuzzmunky415
Solar Enthusiast
chill633
Solar Enthusiast
Thanks. They, too, are out of mult-zone.
robby
Electronic Engineer
- Joined
- May 1, 2021
- Messages
- 5,392
Buy it now!
And forget EG4, I suspect that they are contracting not expanding into new product lines. That pretty much goes for most companies.
Rocksnsalt
Solar Enthusiast
Yes more multizone choices would be great, but I’d also like to see ceiling registers so we don’t have to have the ginormous obnoxious air handler on the wall.
My house has very limited places the air handlers will fit, in relation to where the outdoor unit would be.
Also just a cleaner look.
Aren't the ceiling units rather less efficient for airflow and heat exchanger size reasons? I guess they'd be easier to integrate into a ventilation system though, which is the big downside of mini splits.
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