the rapidly changing inverter landscape

[1201]

Some of us want to stack 2 and not 4 and 2-6k isn’t enough

Two 10kw is 20kw vs three 6000xp 18kw

It's split phase

 

[Cmiller]

from what I understand, the xw software is pretty buggy and theyve had , what, a decade, to fix it?

To be honest, the bugs came with the XW Pro. Before that with the XW+ 5548 and 6848 we put tons out and they were pretty much rock solid! Most of those (probably hundreds) installs are still working today. Some of the XWs that I installed are probably going on 10 years old now. Even the Pro has most bugs sorted out now though!

For an off-grid setup, the XWs are very hard to beat! Split phase, solid surge, great continuous output, awesome gen start options with the AGS.... I could go on for a while! Shoot, I have seen a double stack 6848 setup humming along with 7-7.2kW load on each inverter and it held it and ran with it for probably a good half hour or longer and never shut down! Try that with a new AIO and I don't think it would go long until they would overload! I doubt even the 15K would overperform like that for that length of time!

But once you start getting grid-interactive the AIOs just pull everything together nicely, as far as setting up the system goes. But, to be honest, I think they can be just as buggy as an "old clunky" XW sometimes! It takes some pretty serious programming to be able to make everything work together smoothly all the time!

Probably a big reason that Schneider is not changing much (at least in terms of firmware) on the Pros, is because they have an AIO inverter now as well. (Well, I guess their site still says coming soon.) Now, that would be a proprietary, high voltage battery, type of unit though.... I'm not interested in something like that to be honest! It does have 4x mppts, but only at ~16A, if I recall correctly. And if you were to ask about surge capability, they would probably say "surge.... what's that?" Also, there is no screen whatsoever, so you need to use the app to see what is happening. Definitely not off-grid friendly!




The Schneider specs do say surge: 15.4kW, but I would need to see it to believe it. And I'm also sure that single leg surge is limited to half of that. Pretty sure it's a HF inverter.

 

[Mattb4]

I would point out that the next evolution in inverters will probably be voltage range. More high voltage inverters (300-500 volts) and more inverters that can work over the sodium ion voltage range (2:1.)

Not 300-500vDC but I notice the WZRELB has up to 110vDC.

 

[Hedges]

I recently commissioned a Sunny Island with its original 2007 firmware. Would need an update only if I wanted BMS communication, but I have AGM.

Midnight Rosie looks good, split-phase or single phase, HF, 8kW continuous, some 16kW to 20kW surge.

It is the fancy features of grid support, time shifting, peak clipping that require new software.

 

[1201]

I hear you. Part of the issue is not JUST bogginess, it is understanding how all these different setting affect each other. There may well be a way to make the inverters do what I want them to do, but without documentation that clearly explains the various functionality they support and how the different setting will affect that function, it seems like I am blindly "pushing buttons" in a trial and error like fashion trying to come up with something that actually works.

Such great hardware, thwarted by bad software.

 

[1201]

I recently commissioned a Sunny Island with its original 2007 firmware. Would need an update only if I wanted BMS communication, but I have AGM.

Midnight Rosie looks good, split-phase or single phase, HF, 8kW continuous, some 16kW to 20kW surge.

It is the fancy features of grid support, time shifting, peak clipping that require new software.

Those things are important now that batteries are affordable and people want to use them instead of save them. I LOVE my sunny islands but I'm likely going to be changing them for something more modern.

They work great as off grid inverters, excellent. They even work great as grid tied "keep batteries charged inverter" but having to turn the grid on and off daily is already getting old and it's only been a 4 months lol(first world problems).

I need an inverter that will 1: use pv and when pv is unavailable use the battery until its low before switching to the grid and 2, use current transformers to support the main house loads. This is not as big a deal as I only pull about 7kwh from the grid on average but I would prefer that to be zero.

 

[Hedges]

Maybe European model 8.0H SI will do time shift and peak shave.
Commanding different voltage targets could do it.

What I would like to do is AC couple lithium battery with SBS, use that for time shifting and to keep SI + AGM floating at night if grid down. Problem is I think it bricked one of my SB, and don't know yet if it can adjust charging, not just discharging, based on frequency-watts.

If I don't work out the issues, I'll use SBS + LG RESU-10H + WattNode strictly grid-tied. Keep SI + AGM + SB for grid-backup.

I think SBSE + ABU (or whatever they call the compatible model) will do what these other AIO you're interested in do. But for twice the money, and half the surge capability. 15kW PV, 7.7kW inverter, 10kW battery charger. Wimpy 9kW surge.

Updated firmware and SI could be all things to all people (with deep enough pockets.) Possibly external Command and Control could accomplish it. But really all in one box is what we want.

 

[SeaGal]

I have a (actually 2) cheap Chinesium Solis inverter - they do what I want rather well and are very controllable to customize them to do what I want.

Time will tell whether they last 5, 10 or 15 years (coming up for 2 years as I write). There have been so many sold in the UK that I suspect I will be able to buy a "pre-loved" old one down the line if mine gives up prematurely.

I suspect that Sunsynk/Deye/Sol-Ark are in the same category.

 

[timselectric]

After a while, people get tired of "saving money".

Neeevvveeerrr lol

 

[Hedges]

I think "saving money" was different from saving money.

But some people might actually trade in their car (or wife?) because it works too well. That is, they take reliability for granted. The new model with extra features, especially high performance models, can be problematic.

 

[NCislander]

I think "saving money" was different from saving money.

But some people might actually trade in their car (or wife?) because it works too well. That is, they take reliability for granted. The new model with extra features, especially high performance models, can be problematic.

Who's taking "The Wife" for a trade in? It might be time for my upgrade.

 

[SeaGal]

But some people might actually trade in their car (or wife?) because it works too well. That is, they take reliability for granted. The new model with extra features, especially high performance models, can be problematic.

There is always excitement with new features over the "boring" old model that does what it always has done

 

[toms]

about a year ago when I joined, it was the Schneider xw pro that was popular for low frequency, and the growatts and voltronics were popular for high frequency off grid.

Now I hear almost no mention of them. That's how quickly the landscape is changing. Today 6000xp is extremely popular and we are not talking about auto transformers any longer.

18kpv has joined the solark 15k conversation for whole home use, and there are at least 4 or 5 brand new grid interactive inverters coming out this year that did not even exist last year.

this industry changes FAST

Maybe, but in 2012 when I set up my primary off grid system I chose an SMA Sunny Island.

In 2024 I would choose the same inverter..

Some things change - some stay the same.

 

[marionw]

Who's taking "The Wife" for a trade in? It might be time for my upgrade.

But she will get to keep the solar stuff

 

[Mattb4]

I think "saving money" was different from saving money.

But some people might actually trade in their car (or wife?) because it works too well. That is, they take reliability for granted. The new model with extra features, especially high performance models, can be problematic.

The song begins to play. "I was tired of my lady, we'd been together too long.... Do you like Piña Coladas?"

 

[SeaGal]

when I set up my primary off grid system I chose an SMA Sunny Island.

... and there lies the chasm between the off-gridders that must have something to work, whatever vs. us grid-tied amateurs who can put up with some downtime to save a few $$$

 

[42OhmsPA]

In a few months, there might be some big changes in pricing and features. 10Kw split phase inverters coming into the pipeline that can be stacked. SRNE and Midnite come to mind. Some are already here like the NDX sold by Watts247 that may have the bugs worked out.

If EG4 had a 10Kw off grid inverter like the 6000XP that could be stacked, I might consider it.

Really looking forward to the stackable 10kW split phase ASF SRNE's.

Someday I still want a "bullet proof" low frequency with a big ass transformer and crazy surge ratings, Schneider XW Pro, but I took somewhat of a gamble on my current ASF and I've been beyond happy.

Since September 2023 I've put over 3500kWh PV through it and over 4000kWh AC output (thanks terrible December / January). It has handled everything I've thrown at it from my deep well pump (clamped ~40A / leg inrush) , table saws, miter saws, 240V air compressor (I really need to clamp it), electric dryer, and all the other standard household appliances.
With the money saved avoiding grid it's half paid for itself.

It's awesome how technology has evolved since I started this journey in October 2022.

I don't need tons of fancy features and constant firmware updates to fix 'bugs', I just want something that works, so far I think I've found it but time will tell.

I look forward to the future and more evolution. I see my next adventure being high voltage batteries in a couple years.

I'll be sure to document everything for the world to see, without the forum there is no way I'd be where I am today.

 

[SeaGal]

But she will get to keep the solar stuff

Yes.. god bless him... I'm never letting go of my LiFePO4's

 

[SeaGal]

The song begins to play. "I was tired of my lady, we'd been together too long.... Do you like Piña Coladas?"

So you end up with the same inverter, but love it more

 

[NCislander]

Go with what works, year after year. Many things in life. Solid, Dependable, Reliable, Comfortable.
Though hard to believe, life doesn't revolve around watching electricity meters (watching grass grow)

 

[featherlite]

There is always excitement with new features over the "boring" old model that does what it always has done

Proverbs 31:10-15
[for maximum effect, substitute “Victron” for “woman/her/she”]

10 Who shall find a valiant woman? far and from the uttermost coasts is the price of her.
11 The heart of her husband trusteth in her, and he shall have no need of spoils.
12 She will render him good, and not evil, all the days of her life.
13 She hath sought wool and flax, and hath wrought by the counsel of her hands.
14 She is like the merchant's ship, she bringeth her bread from afar.
15 And she hath risen in the night, and given a prey to her household, and victuals to her maidens.

 

[billvon]

Not 300-500vDC but I notice the WZRELB has up to 110vDC.

Yeah half a dozen inverters at the last Intersolar were supporting HV. Sol-Ark now has a 30K inverter that works to 400V, and Solis has at least two.

Partial list:

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Maybe, but in 2012 when I set up my primary off grid system I chose an SMA Sunny Island.

In 2024 I would choose the same inverter..

Some things change - some stay the same.

After seeing these beasts on those DC Solar trailers, I'm impressed. If I weren't already smurfed, I'd go Yellow.

 

[Hedges]

But she will get to keep the solar stuff

The trick is to tie "our" money up in stuff, which can then be assigned a depreciated value.
That is, if you also have separate assets you get to keep.

... and there lies the chasm between the off-gridders that must have something to work, whatever vs. us grid-tied amateurs who can put up with some downtime to save a few $$$

You forget the 3rd group, "non-binary", who dumpster dive or otherwise get bargains. Save lots of $$$ and get something industrial grade.

I have spent a lot of $$$, however, since becoming addicted.

 

[Brucey]

Yeah half a dozen inverters at the last Intersolar were supporting HV. Sol-Ark now has a 30K inverter that works to 400V, and Solis has at least two.

Partial list:

Question is if there's any diy battery options in the HV range specifically BMS?