pollenface
Solar Addict
thats exactly right
The Renewable Energy Problem.
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FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
"Microgrids" (old news)
The new must-have for the wealthy? Their very own electrical grid.
“We’ve probably seen a tenfold increase in residential demand over the past six months,” one microgrid company said.news.yahoo.com
"A turnkey solar-powered microgrid system ... can cost up to $45,000 depending on the size of the home"
"Renewable microgrids on a neighborhood level have become increasingly attractive to mitigate costs and ensure reliable energy in areas hit by power outages, said Sharelynn Moore, executive vice president of Bloom Energy, which runs about 100 microgrids in residential neighborhoods across the country. For instance, the company partnered with a real estate developer in 2019 to power a 40-acre mixed-use community in Alhambra, California."
Sharing power within a neighborhood would be an interesting possibility.
Most of systems people here have wouldn't support that unless a single large grid-forming battery system interconnected them.
That might be the way to go, to retrofit this into existing neighborhood systems.
SMA's "Multi Cluster" would have several Sunny Island systems, and on the "grid" connection they interconnect through a controller. That should let them disconnect and run stand-alone when necessary, but share their PV power when connected. What I don't know is how well they work isolating an overloaded island to let the others remain up.
This data sheet has a diagram showing multiple systems supporting a single house, not what I was thinking of. If the islands can have their own PV and disconnect, then it might.
A few points about this:
* If people that have access to the public grid are doing this, it is probably a case of the people getting fed up with the poorly run public grid and taking maters into their own hands. However, the economics are probably hard to justify if you don't add that value of independence.
* If this type of thing catches on, it will be a threat to the public grid companies.... and you can bet they will try everything they can to stop it and or tax it. (They are already going down that path for individuals). Sadly, many/most of the Government bodies charged with regulation of the public grid companies are in bed with the public grid companies)
* To make something like that work, you really need some kind of a coop... and anyone that has ever dealt with a homeowners association knows how that can go sour.
svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
SEIA's plan to Congress: https://www.seia.org/sites/default/files/2020-11/SEIA-Solar-Vision-2021-117th-Final.pdf
Particularly nice is they list the bill numbers. There are a number of good recommendations (e.g., minimize permitting costs), but I'm still not crazy about building solar on public lands, would rather see steeper discounts for homeowners. That way the money is matched, they consume their roof space (not public lands), and they handle the maintenance. HR 3794/S 2666
The other thing SEIA promotes I don't like is the "fair" tax strategies to disincentivize fossil fuels (not just fair prices, but taxing them with a carbon tax for not being neutral). Yeah, we all want that long term... but currently there isn't enough energy storage and crippling fossil fuel plants will make the problems CA sees with outages nation-wide. Ideally rather than push this I'd like to see more emphasis on storage. HR 2360 doesn't go far enough and seems akin to wishful thinking (throw money at universities and pray). Let's put some $$ into actually building (and making jobs) with some large hydro projects, let's put some $$ into some pilot plants for tidal and thermal. Perhaps even a Magnus Effect project!
HR 2360/S 1142, the Energy Storage Tax Incentive and Deployment Act (Doyle, Heinrich, Gardner)
HR 3597/S 2668, the Solar Energy Research & Development Act
HR 4511/S 3109, the Interregional Transmission Improvement Act (Haaland, Heinrich), require FERC to reform the interregional transmission planning process
Particularly nice is they list the bill numbers. There are a number of good recommendations (e.g., minimize permitting costs), but I'm still not crazy about building solar on public lands, would rather see steeper discounts for homeowners. That way the money is matched, they consume their roof space (not public lands), and they handle the maintenance. HR 3794/S 2666
The other thing SEIA promotes I don't like is the "fair" tax strategies to disincentivize fossil fuels (not just fair prices, but taxing them with a carbon tax for not being neutral). Yeah, we all want that long term... but currently there isn't enough energy storage and crippling fossil fuel plants will make the problems CA sees with outages nation-wide. Ideally rather than push this I'd like to see more emphasis on storage. HR 2360 doesn't go far enough and seems akin to wishful thinking (throw money at universities and pray). Let's put some $$ into actually building (and making jobs) with some large hydro projects, let's put some $$ into some pilot plants for tidal and thermal. Perhaps even a Magnus Effect project!
HR 2360/S 1142, the Energy Storage Tax Incentive and Deployment Act (Doyle, Heinrich, Gardner)
HR 3597/S 2668, the Solar Energy Research & Development Act
HR 4511/S 3109, the Interregional Transmission Improvement Act (Haaland, Heinrich), require FERC to reform the interregional transmission planning process
svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Looks like SEIA got a bill number wrong... HR 2360 is the Renewable Energy for Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands Act
H.R.1684 - To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide tax credits for energy storage technologies...
No text yet, but probably the same as the solar to extend the existing tax incentives. The key text from the previous is probably:
H.R.1684 - To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide tax credits for energy storage technologies...
No text yet, but probably the same as the solar to extend the existing tax incentives. The key text from the previous is probably:
I find it interesting that many are focusing on either utility scale or home scale storage and renewable sites. These are a necessary part of the equation, but there is a third part that will likely be required.
Shared or neighborhood scale storage and solar systems. These can be arranged as a small co-op/utility. This allows some of the economies of scale associated with larger installations, and spreading the maintenance costs out, while keeping power generation and storage closer to the consumer, and in the case of rooftop PV, its generation. Setups like this would be arranged by the local gov, or the developer. Each home would have a rider (or local association) fee to manage the installation. Power sales to the grid could make this a net zero cost in many cases.
Shared or neighborhood scale storage and solar systems. These can be arranged as a small co-op/utility. This allows some of the economies of scale associated with larger installations, and spreading the maintenance costs out, while keeping power generation and storage closer to the consumer, and in the case of rooftop PV, its generation. Setups like this would be arranged by the local gov, or the developer. Each home would have a rider (or local association) fee to manage the installation. Power sales to the grid could make this a net zero cost in many cases.
svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
There are some caveats, but looks like you could get up to $10M under H.R.448 - Energy Resilient Communities Act, see post #12.
svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
More Energy legislation:
S.1062 - A bill to prohibit the procurement of solar panels manufactured or assembled in the People's Republic of China. (No text yet)
H.R.998 - Offshore Wind Jobs and Opportunity Act
H.R.806 - Clean Energy and Sustainability Accelerator Act
Establishes a non-profit, setup by the president, to be known as the Clean Energy and Sustainability Accelerator. Mandate:
S.1062 - A bill to prohibit the procurement of solar panels manufactured or assembled in the People's Republic of China. (No text yet)
H.R.998 - Offshore Wind Jobs and Opportunity Act
H.R.806 - Clean Energy and Sustainability Accelerator Act
Establishes a non-profit, setup by the president, to be known as the Clean Energy and Sustainability Accelerator. Mandate:
- providing financing support for investments in the United States in low- and zero-emissions technologies and processes in order to rapidly accelerate market penetration;
- catalyzing and mobilizing private capital through Federal investment and supporting a more robust marketplace for clean technologies, while avoiding competition with private investment;
- enabling climate-impacted communities to benefit from and afford projects and investments that reduce emissions;
- providing support for workers and communities impacted by the transition to a low-carbon economy;
- supporting the creation of green banks within the United States where green banks do not exist; and
- causing the rapid transition to a clean energy economy without raising energy costs to end users and seeking to lower costs where possible.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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How about a bill permitting people to install dual-fuel appliances, whenever state or local legislation requires electric?
Allowing plug-in hybrids to meet any rules designating pure electric?
Otherwise, we will be left stranded in the cold and dark when electric fails and fossil fuel infrastructure can't be utilized or has been removed.
Allowing plug-in hybrids to meet any rules designating pure electric?
Otherwise, we will be left stranded in the cold and dark when electric fails and fossil fuel infrastructure can't be utilized or has been removed.
svetz
Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
As if California would let the power go off for residents... oh wait... hmmm... try this link: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/CA
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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You know the politicians will have fossil fuel backup for their own homes, while banning it for their constituents.
They've demonstrated us to be second-class citizens in other areas already.
I distinctly remember Feinstein smiling as San Francisco mayor while she trashed certain constitutional rights.
It'll probably take years for Supreme Court to rule on whether heating our homes during a cold snap is protected as part of "right to life", or if the taking away of our liberty is more important.
They've demonstrated us to be second-class citizens in other areas already.
I distinctly remember Feinstein smiling as San Francisco mayor while she trashed certain constitutional rights.
It'll probably take years for Supreme Court to rule on whether heating our homes during a cold snap is protected as part of "right to life", or if the taking away of our liberty is more important.
D
Deleted member 23531
Guest
I’m sympathetic to those who view a natural gas stove ban as ridiculous, I love my high BTU gas cooktop and I don’t believe cooking is a significant use of energy compared to transportation, heating/cooling, and industry.
However I also don’t think whatever underfunded federal programs that get approved are a waste. They are balancing political will to retrain coal and manufacturing jobs to clean energy jobs and that is worthwhile in my view.
I also live in CA like some of you and I don’t think mandating residential solar is a significant cost adder to housing, and anyway that is really negligible compared to real reasons for high housing costs like underdevelopment and tax policy.
Just like subsidizing electric vehicles (without much attention to the grid, charging stations, or storage), I think you need to realize that policy does what it can and the commercial response it invokes is what actually gets the job done. So to eschew residential solar as misguided is maybe true in isolation, but it will have the same effect that you claim will be better since it will also contribute to commercial development in storage, grid/technology improvements, energy policy, etc. I guess what I’m saying is yes it is narrowly directed but theses sectors of the economy are interconnected so even subsidizing residential solar will effectively advance a host of other areas which also need it.
However I also don’t think whatever underfunded federal programs that get approved are a waste. They are balancing political will to retrain coal and manufacturing jobs to clean energy jobs and that is worthwhile in my view.
I also live in CA like some of you and I don’t think mandating residential solar is a significant cost adder to housing, and anyway that is really negligible compared to real reasons for high housing costs like underdevelopment and tax policy.
Just like subsidizing electric vehicles (without much attention to the grid, charging stations, or storage), I think you need to realize that policy does what it can and the commercial response it invokes is what actually gets the job done. So to eschew residential solar as misguided is maybe true in isolation, but it will have the same effect that you claim will be better since it will also contribute to commercial development in storage, grid/technology improvements, energy policy, etc. I guess what I’m saying is yes it is narrowly directed but theses sectors of the economy are interconnected so even subsidizing residential solar will effectively advance a host of other areas which also need it.
D
Deleted member 23531
Guest
For example, electric vehicle subsidies have clearly advanced grid storage technology and commercial viability. I don’t even need to mention the company pioneering this area as you all already know it. They are primarily profitable thanks to electric vehicle subsidies like direct tax breaks to buyers and carbon offsets they sell to other companies.
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