The travel trailer project begins.

[carguy4471]

The story:
I just purchased a new Wolf Pup 14CC. It comes with a “juice pack” that includes a 50 watt solar panel and a solar controller that looks like it cost $12.

I will be adding an additional 150 watts of solar, swapping the battery out for two 100ah lifepo4 batteries (one battleborn, one off brand). I’ll be adding a 2000 watt renogy inverter to one outlet I’m going to install in the travel trailer. The solar controller will be replaced by a Victron 100/30. Battery monitoring will be a Victron 712. The stock converter charger will be swapped over to a WFCO lithium compatible unit. The overall goal is to be able to leave the batteries in year round in MN (the battleborn is heated the off brand will get a heating pad of some sort or get pulled during the winter). Ideally the solar will be able to keep the batteries topped off and heated battleborn warm all winter. I’m hoping I can get 3-4 days of boondocking out of the rig. I do have a 100 watt portable I can use to supplement or a genny if really needed.

Everything is ordered and ready to go. I start installing tomorrow. It’s still winter so I’ll be taking my time but I have to start by creating a mounting board for everything in the storage compartment. I’ll be putting photos and updates here if anyone cares to follow along. All comments and criticism is welcome.


An advertising photo of the same camper I purchased.


My new rig on it’s way home. I got to purchase it on my birthday this year so that was pretty fun.


The storage compartment where everything will go. The mounting panel will wind up behind the dinette on the right side of the photo.


The pile of goods sitting in the living room waiting for a new home. I think the only thing not in the photo is the 250amp ANL fuse that should be in the mail tomorrow.

The only part of the project that’ll have significant wait is the solar panels. I’m not trying to mount them until it warms up in a few months. Everything else is going to go in as time allows. I should be able to make progress each week and update the thread. I posted the wiring schematic in another thread if anyone is interested in checking that out, nothing too fancy.

Thanks for having a look. Wish me luck!!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

The story:
I just purchased a new Wolf Pup 14CC. It comes with a “juice pack” that includes a 50 watt solar panel and a solar controller that looks like it cost $12.

I will be adding an additional 150 watts of solar,

Need MOAR!

swapping the battery out for two 100ah lifepo4 batteries (one battleborn, one off brand).

Hmmm. Which brand?

I’ll be adding a 2000 watt renogy inverter to one outlet I’m going to install in the travel trailer.

Why not an inverter/charger vs. inverter + converter?

The solar controller will be replaced by a Victron 100/30.

Nice.

Battery monitoring will be a Victron 712.

Nice.

The stock converter charger will be swapped over to a WFCO lithium compatible unit.

More often than not, the trailer wiring is responsible for LFP charging issues more so than the converter. Furthermore, most "Lithium" converters are at best a poor implementation and use arbitrary rules that don't necessarily apply in the real world.

I would evaluate the stock inverter to see if it will suffice.

The overall goal is to be able to leave the batteries in year round in MN (the battleborn is heated the off brand will get a heating pad of some sort or get pulled during the winter). Ideally the solar will be able to keep the batteries topped off and heated battleborn warm all winter. I’m hoping I can get 3-4 days of boondocking out of the rig. I do have a 100 watt portable I can use to supplement or a genny if really needed.

Mostly sounds like a plan. The limitation is the 150W of solar. Flat on a roof in a northern latitude means you're going to have poor performance from the panel - likely not more than 30-40 rated in the winter. In winter, you're likely not going to get more than 300Wh from the panels even on sunny days. Each 100Ah battery has 1280Wh, so for 3 days, you'll have about 3460Wh total before the batteries are tapped. that's 1.15kWh/day. that's pretty decent if you're conservative.

If you have a propane fridge, run it on propane. They're hungry little monsters on AC. if it's a compressor fridge, you might use 600-1000Wh/day depending on size.

The pile of goods sitting in the living room waiting for a new home. I think the only thing not in the photo is the 250amp ANL fuse that should be in the mail tomorrow.

2000W/12V/.85 = 196A peak draw from the batteries. That requires 4/0 cable, and it needs to be fused for 250A. You should probably ditch the 200A breaker and install a 250A class T fuse.

The only part of the project that’ll have significant wait is the solar panels. I’m not trying to mount them until it warms up in a few months. Everything else is going to go in as time allows. I should be able to make progress each week and update the thread. I posted the wiring schematic in another thread if anyone is interested in checking that out, nothing too fancy.

Good. More time to get more panels... Get at least 300-400W on there if you can. Or at least get some deployable panels you can tilt more optimally.

Thanks for having a look. Wish me luck!!

Good luck!

 

[Rbertalotto]

Will you be connecting two totally dissimilar batteries together? I thought that was a total no-no. They might destroy each other?

 

[carguy4471]

Need MOAR!

I agree!! I'll gave 200 to start and I do plan to add another 200 before next winter.

Hmmm. Which brand?

It's a Tess Electric.

Why not an inverter/charger vs. inverter + converter?

I really would have like that route, but man the cost, wow!! It isn't the most expensive travel trailer in world and it would have been very hard to justify. It also didn't fit into the budget. I had the $$ on hand to buy all the above.

More often than not, the trailer wiring is responsible for LFP charging issues more so than the converter. Furthermore, most "Lithium" converters are at best a poor implementation and use arbitrary rules that don't necessarily apply in the real world.

The stock converter doesn't charge at a high enough voltage. The upgrade from WFCO will charge at 14.6/13.6. I think it's the stock units not made for lithium that give people issues. The manuals with charge profiles are published on the WFCO site.

Mostly sounds like a plan. The limitation is the 150W of solar. Flat on a roof in a northern latitude means you're going to have poor performance from the panel - likely not more than 30-40 rated in the winter. In winter, you're likely not going to get more than 300Wh from the panels even on sunny days. Each 100Ah battery has 1280Wh, so for 3 days, you'll have about 3460Wh total before the batteries are tapped. that's 1.15kWh/day. that's pretty decent if you're conservative.

If you have a propane fridge, run it on propane. They're hungry little monsters on AC. if it's a compressor fridge, you might use 600-1000Wh/day depending on size.

I'll have 200 watts to start. It's a 12v fridge. I know I won't be able to run forever, but hopefully a few days. I do have another 100 watt foldable panel I can plug in. Well, technically I have 4 of them but I'm sure the stock wiring to the solar port wouldn't take that. And I'd rather not complicate more things. I can easily plug in another 100 watts.

2000W/12V/.85 = 196A peak draw from the batteries. That requires 4/0 cable, and it needs to be fused for 250A. You should probably ditch the 200A breaker and install a 250A class T fuse.

I'll get one of those on the way. I just realized last night they shipped the inverter with doubled 4awg cable. Should work yeah?

Thank you so much for your thoughts!! It's really great getting input on all of this!!

 

[carguy4471]

Will you be connecting two totally dissimilar batteries together? I thought that was a total no-no. They might destroy each other?

I’ve seen people say otherwise here. And Will has a huge battery bank of different stuff in parallel. So…. I think it will work…. I’m hoping so at least.

 

[Rbertalotto]

Yes, now that you mention it, I guess LI batteries with individual BMS it isn't an issue as it is with LA/AGM......Good luck with your system!

 

[carguy4471]

Yes, now that you mention it, I guess LI batteries with individual BMS it isn't an issue as it is with LA/AGM......Good luck with your system!

Thanks for confirming that. Much appreciated. The works starts today and one of the first things I need to do is crawl under the TT in the snow to route the battery cables inside. Then I can swap the inverter charger and hook up the battleborn while I work on the electronics panel. I’m starting with a cardboard cutout to Koch it up before I cut the wood panel and start mounting everything.

 

[Whinny]

Most manufacturers recommend 2/0 for 2000w 12v inverters. I would suggest not using that type of breaker in the inverter circuit, no matter who makes it.

Cable Table 12VDC | Magnum Dimensions

www.magnum-dimensions.com

These breakers have arc supression and are rated as switches, a little harder to mount though.....

https://www.bluesea.com/products/7222/A-Series_White_Toggle_Circuit_Breaker_-_Single_Pole_30A

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I agree!! I'll gave 200 to start and I do plan to add another 200 before next winter.

Good. Don't worry about exceeding the 30A charging on the MPPT. Victrons can be overpaneled as long as you don't exceed the 100Voc and 35A Isc limits on the INPUT.




A 3S5P array of 100W panels would be about 66Voc (54Vmp) and about 30A Isc on the input.

That's a 1500W array. I'm not recommending you do this, but you CAN do this. As mentioned, flat panels on a trailer roof will perform poorly.

Connecting additional ground arrays could be as simple as adding a parallel connector at the MPPT and then connecting your additional panels there. You'd just need to make sure the rootop and deployable arrays have similar Vmp (±5%).

I'll get one of those on the way. I just realized last night they shipped the inverter with doubled 4awg cable. Should work yeah?

Maybe. Cables are limited by 3 things. The first two are the cross section of the wire and the temperature rating of the insulation. While a given wire might be able to handle a very large current, if it melts the insulation, that's bad. Insulation is typically rated for 60, 75, 90, 105 and 200°C - those are the ones I remember. There may be more.

The 3rd thing is resistance. While a wire might be able to handle both the current and the resulting temperature, the length of cable may result in too much of a voltage drop with an accompanying loss of efficiency.

4awg is not 4/0. When you double the conductors, subtract 3 from the gauge for the equivalent. 2X 4awg is like 1awg, which can only handle 110A @ 60°C and 145A @ 90°C. There are also 105°C (marine) and 200°C (silicon) rated cables. The 4/0 is needed to handle 200A @ 65°C.

 

[rmaddy]

4/00

Sorry to nitpick but you mean 4/0 everywhere you wrote 4/00 since 4/0 is shorthand for 0000AWG.

 

[Whinny]

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/reference/21731.pdf

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Sorry to nitpick but you mean 4/0 everywhere you wrote 4/00 since 4/0 is shorthand for 0000AWG.

Thanks! Fixed!

Looks like I got it right in yesterday's post!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/reference/21731.pdf

Only applicable to ABYC rated wiring. Doubt Renogy is shipping with that.

 

[carguy4471]

Got some work done on the project today.

Got SLA battery removed from the tongue of the TT.
Routed battery cables into the storage compartment.
Got the WFCO inverter charger installed into the power center.
Removed stock solar charge controller.
Extended battery and solar panel wires.
Mocked up cardboard of all the components.
Cut wood panel and got it mounted.
Mounted components.
Started to make wires for everything.


Good spot to route battery wires up.



Inverter charger all wired up.



Removing the old inverter charger.



Temp home for the battleborn till everything is ready to move it into place.



Looks like the inverter charger puts out the correct voltage.



You can see on the top of the photo where the old solar charge controller was. Had to dig the wires out.



The mock up on cardboard.



The start of mounting everything and wiring.

 

[EBKRV]

Got some work done on the project today.

Got SLA battery removed from the tongue of the TT.
Routed battery cables into the storage compartment.
Got the WFCO inverter charger installed into the power center.
Removed stock solar charge controller.
Extended battery and solar panel wires.
Mocked up cardboard of all the components.
Cut wood panel and got it mounted.
Mounted components.
Started to make wires for everything.

View attachment 83400
Good spot to route battery wires up.


View attachment 83401
Inverter charger all wired up.


View attachment 83402
Removing the old inverter charger.


View attachment 83403
Temp home for the battleborn till everything is ready to move it into place.


View attachment 83404
Looks like the inverter charger puts out the correct voltage.


View attachment 83405
You can see on the top of the photo where the old solar charge controller was. Had to dig the wires out.


View attachment 83406
The mock up on cardboard.


View attachment 83407
The start of mounting everything and wiring.

Do we get to see the finished product?

 

[carguy4471]

I got the outlet in that the inverter will run, the inverter on off switch, and most of the wiring done. I need to tidy everything up with cable clamps and zips ties. Need to mount the batteries. But it’s coming along.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Just a thought. I’ve had to ‘fix’ a coupla almost new wolf pups 12V and solar systems. Maybe three; can’t remember. Dealer installed inverters. TV would only run 45 minutes and microwave would trip stuff out, batteries going dead overnight with no overnight loads.
The dealer told the owners that nothing was wrong. It was uncanny that it was all the same issues. At least the transfer switch was right iirc

I wouldn’t use any of that factory solar wiring myself if it’s 16ga inside the sheathing. Are they still doing the sae plug-in on the right front corner?

I’d also ditch the 50W panel and get a, or some, 200W panels that are scalable down the road. Poor economy to try to interweave the 50W panel imho.

 

[carguy4471]

Just a thought. I’ve had to ‘fix’ a coupla almost new wolf pups 12V and solar systems. Maybe three; can’t remember. Dealer installed inverters. TV would only run 45 minutes and microwave would trip stuff out, batteries going dead overnight with no overnight loads.
The dealer told the owners that nothing was wrong. It was uncanny that it was all the same issues. At least the transfer switch was right iirc

I wouldn’t use any of that factory solar wiring myself if it’s 16ga inside the sheathing. Are they still doing the sae plug-in on the right front corner?

I’d also ditch the 50W panel and get a, or some, 200W panels that are scalable down the road. Poor economy to try to interweave the 50W panel imho.

The inverter I installed in mine is only running the one outlet I installed. I thought about it but I didn't want to do the extra work to make the 120v wire run and install a transfer switch. And I never use a microwave regardless, lol. I just wanted one outlet just incase I needed some power for random stuff.

The factory solar wiring was 12ga. I was quite surprised. I had read somewhere online a wolf pup owner mentioned it was 14, but after digging into it it was 12ga. I'm happy with that. I'll be able to get by with that.

They didn't put the SAE plug on the side of mine. I wish they had. I have a portable 100 watt panel that I'd like to plug in. I'll just wind up putting a coil of wire with a connector in the storage compartment I can reach in and pull out to plug in my portable panel.

I'm going to leave the 50 that's on there. I'd just hate to throw it away. I'm adding a 50 watt panel (in series) to it to make it a good setup to add more 100 watt panels (in parallel). I already have the 50 and a 100 ready to get put on (maybe this weekend, weather permitting). With the two 50's and 100 I'll be at 37.61v and 4.91a. That'll make it super easy to stack 100's. If I add 2 more 100's for a total of 400 I'll be at 74.81v and 4.91a. 12ga should be able to handle that just fine.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

The factory solar wiring was 12ga

That’s an improvement. 20A

I'm adding a 50 watt panel (in series) to it to make it a good setup to add more 100 watt panels (in parallel).

that will work. I didn’t mean throw it away- just sell it (get rid of it)
But that will work if the numbers are close.

didn't put the SAE plug on the side of mine. I wish they had.

I’ve wondered if the ones I saw weren’t dealer installations. Maybe so.

the inverter with doubled 4awg cable.

I always way oversize the inverter power cables. I have 2/0 on my 1200W. Never get hot.

______ ____ ___ _
Down the road if you wish to upscale you could get that MPP $432 1000W AIO unit and basically eliminate the onboard ‘converter’ which would let you run all factory outlets off of solar or shorepower and not even need a transfer switch. Because:

stock converter charger will be swapped over to a WFCO lithium compatible unit

….I’m not a fan of those.
RVs seem to have decent 120V shorepower but the converter and everything else seem to be installed to just barely work but not necessarily work well. For the cost of the lithium batteries I just don’t trust those RV things.

But “upgrading” to an MPP unit is a weird thing to say here - you have victron which is top shelf. So it would be sortofa sideways move down? The MPP stuff has a good rep though.

 

[Ice Cream Sandwich]

Got some work done on the project today.

Got SLA battery removed from the tongue of the TT.
Routed battery cables into the storage compartment.
Got the WFCO inverter charger installed into the power center.
Removed stock solar charge controller.
Extended battery and solar panel wires.
Mocked up cardboard of all the components.
Cut wood panel and got it mounted.
Mounted components.
Started to make wires for everything.

View attachment 83405
You can see on the top of the photo where the old solar charge controller was. Had to dig the wires out.

Thanks for posting this here! Just bought 2022 Wolf Pup 16 BHS. I am adding (4) 100 watt panels and a Victron 100/30 MPPT with (2) 100 amp Lithium batteries. I would like to use the existing wire and gland from the roof panel. My question to you is removing the existing PWM charge controller. Mine is exactly the same. How hard did you have to pull to get the wires to come out? Did the wire connections come apart? Also how did you identify which wires come from the roof panel and what go to the battery (what colors go where?). It looks like they come up from bottom of the trailer thru your hole. Thanks for any help.