The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

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time2roll

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I never did get an answer to my question .... Why has the US death per capita during this pandemic been so poor compared to most of the rest of the world?
I give the US credit for most accurate reporting. (based upon nothing but a hunch)
 

Bob B

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There are a bunch of factors, for example obesity is likely to be one of them, age another. I am sure that in years to come scientist will be writing papers about this. I am interested to see what they find. I am afraid that in the short term, especially on internet forums it will be an issue steeped in politics with people blaming every one but their favourite politician.
Obesity was one of my first suspicions also ..... Obesity is definitely seems to be one of the risk factors for hospitalizations with Covid .... but if you look at at a chart of the most obese countries, it doesn't match up with those with the most deaths.
The US is in the top 20 of both charts, however.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-obese-countries (the 2021 rates are there if you scroll down)

 

Bob B

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I give the US credit for most accurate reporting. (based upon nothing but a hunch)

If we were talking about cases instead of death's .... I would be more inclined to agree with you.

I think the death rates are more likely to be correctly reported than some other factors.
 

Cdkipp

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So ..... I'll throw my vote to closing this thread to further comment. Quite a shame really .... we were actually having a good discussion for a while.
I no longer think it's possible to return it to a reasonable discussion .... sad, because that may have been the goal of some.

I never did get an answer to my question .... Why has the US death per capita during this pandemic been so poor compared to most of the rest of the world?
I'd start a new thread with that being the question ..... but I doubt we are capable of discussing that reasonably.
I REALLY do think we need to figure that out.

It's so sad that we are incapable of having a reasonable discussion. @Dzl .... if you are still following this thread .... I vote to close it to further comments.
Lancet Commision study.
THE LANCET COMMISSIONS| VOLUME 397, ISSUE 10275, P705-753, FEBRUARY 20, 2021

Public policy and health in the Trump era​

 

robby

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Obesity was one of my first suspicions also ..... Obesity is definitely seems to be one of the risk factors for hospitalizations with Covid .... but if you look at at a chart of the most obese countries, it doesn't match up with those with the most deaths.
The US is in the top 20 of both charts, however.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-obese-countries (the 2021 rates are there if you scroll down)

Obesity is the initial problem, that creates a much higher rate of Diabetes and Heart problems. We also have pretty good health care system and that has lead to many people with major underlying conditions living a lot longer than they would in other countries. Diabetics seem to be particularly susceptible to Covid and is probably one of the reasons why the African American population was hit so hard.

I think this thread has grown by 15 pages since I last visited.
 

MurphyGuy

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Obesity was one of my first suspicions also ..... Obesity is definitely seems to be one of the risk factors for hospitalizations with Covid .... but if you look at at a chart of the most obese countries, it doesn't match up with those with the most deaths.
The US is in the top 20 of both charts, however.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-obese-countries (the 2021 rates are there if you scroll down)

Obesity comes in a few different flavors with each flavor having different effects and consequences.

The worst type of obesity is that which creates fatty liver disease or contributes to it. This type of obesity is normally caused by eating too much sugar and not getting enough exercise.

Sugar obesity with exercise where people walk a lot, is not as bad.

Obesity that is caused by high calorie intake is again, not as bad as that which is caused by sugar.

Then there are people who are statistically obese, but not really medically obese.

Fat is not fat.. and I seriously doubt if the published obesity statistics take this into account.
 

Bob B

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I just looked at is the countries with the highest % vaccinated VS the per capita deaths.

There are some on the internet arguing that vaccines actually increase the total number of deaths ...... and some arguing that it decreases total deaths .... unfortunately, I don't see a correlation either way. If anyone has better evidence, I would be interested to see it.

I am, however, concerned with how the vaccination of kids might affect this.
 

Cdkipp

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Discussions about Covid death rate in the US should be split into the pre vaccine era and post vaccine era.
 

Shale MacGregor

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I've found this thread useful, read more studies and gained more relevant info than I would have otherwise, and found more about the mindset behind the irrational conspiracy theory that is "try this one weird trick that big pharma doesn't want you to know about"
 

Bob B

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I've found this thread useful, read more studies and gained more relevant info than I would have otherwise, and found more about the mindset behind the irrational conspiracy theory that is "try this one weird trick that big pharma doesn't want you to know about"

But .... why do you think the US is in the top 20 for highest number of deaths per capita out of about 200 countries?

Preventing deaths seems to be the most important thing .... why are we failing at that?
 

Cdkipp

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Bob has me blocked but you can’t just look at countries total death rates and total vaccination rates. You have to look at a similar population pre and post vaccine or the numbers are meaningless
 

Cdkipp

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But .... why do you think the US is in the top 20 for highest number of deaths per capita out of about 200 countries?

Preventing deaths seems to be the most important thing .... why are we failing at that?
The irony of an ivermectin guy asking this is a bit much.
 

BMcL

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The irony of an ivermectin guy asking this is a bit much.
That's exactly why he's asking you ! Why are you against the public giving ivermectin a fair shot ?
LOL, here comes the "safety" escape hatch argument. Double-blind trials BS.
 

Cdkipp

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But .... why do you think the US is in the top 20 for highest number of deaths per capita out of about 200 countries?

Preventing deaths seems to be the most important thing .... why are we failing at that?
If we are talking early on pre-vaccine then in addition to the demographics and chronic disease profile of the US some of the factors were: 1. We got hit early on before we knew how to treat, 2. our international airports, probably unavoidably, seeded the virus throughout our country long before we knew 3. the cities hit first were big cities like NYC and Detroit, where people were densely populated with vulnerable populations 4. We were inexplicably slow to develop our own Covid test, refusing the WHO’s offer of tests, thus we were operating blindfolded much longer than other countries. 5. Unlike many Asian countries we insisted that Covid was passed by contaminated surfaces and large droplets 6. Related to 5, we really screwed up messaging regarding masking and are still paying the price—-we should have ramped high quality masks immediately 7. The US health system is only ranked 30th in the world and more importantly dedicates very little resources to preventative and public health measures. Consequently while we can provide world class care to some patients we are ill equipped to active proactively 8. The spread of misinformation and resistance to community measures and mandates.
 

MurphyGuy

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That's exactly why he's asking you ! Why are you against the public giving ivermectin a fair shot ?
LOL, here comes the "safety" escape hatch argument. Double-blind trials BS.
Why are you even discussing it? You're not a doctor, medical researcher, biologist, or a have a degree in anything even remotely related to the subject.
 

BMcL

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No matter how old you are, two shots of Pfizer vaccine don’t last – study​

People’s ages had no effect on the vaccine’s waning, meaning that the vaccine waned for everyone and not just older people.

People vaccinated with two shots of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine in January and February had a 51% increased chance of contracting the virus in July compared to those who were vaccinated in March or April, a new Israeli study published in Nature Communications has shown.

The team of researchers from KI Institute worked with doctors from KSM Research and Innovation and used data provided by Maccabi Health Services to conduct a retrospective cohort study comparing the incidence rates of breakthrough infections and COVID-19-related hospitalizations between people vaccinated toward the beginning of the country’s campaign (January and February) and those vaccinated toward the later stages (March and April). The study included more than 1.3 million records.

As noted, the risk of infection was significantly higher for people the earlier they were vaccinated, with an additional trend for high risk of hospitalization. The results, the researchers said, are consistent with other studies on the subject that show a decline in antibody levels and immune system compounds after four to six months.
Moreover, people’s ages had no effect on the vaccine’s waning, meaning that the vaccine waned for everyone and not just older people.

"The vaccine's effectiveness wanes equally for everybody, according to the study," Dr. Barak Mizrahi, a researcher in computational health for KI Institute who led the study, said.

 

Cdkipp

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No matter how old you are, two shots of Pfizer vaccine don’t last – study​

People’s ages had no effect on the vaccine’s waning, meaning that the vaccine waned for everyone and not just older people.

People vaccinated with two shots of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine in January and February had a 51% increased chance of contracting the virus in July compared to those who were vaccinated in March or April, a new Israeli study published in Nature Communications has shown.

The team of researchers from KI Institute worked with doctors from KSM Research and Innovation and used data provided by Maccabi Health Services to conduct a retrospective cohort study comparing the incidence rates of breakthrough infections and COVID-19-related hospitalizations between people vaccinated toward the beginning of the country’s campaign (January and February) and those vaccinated toward the later stages (March and April). The study included more than 1.3 million records.

As noted, the risk of infection was significantly higher for people the earlier they were vaccinated, with an additional trend for high risk of hospitalization. The results, the researchers said, are consistent with other studies on the subject that show a decline in antibody levels and immune system compounds after four to six months.
Moreover, people’s ages had no effect on the vaccine’s waning, meaning that the vaccine waned for everyone and not just older people.

"The vaccine's effectiveness wanes equally for everybody, according to the study," Dr. Barak Mizrahi, a researcher in computational health for KI Institute who led the study, said.

No they don’t. They start to wane at four months. Booster brings them up higher than their original immune repose. At 94 days they show no lag whatsoever. I have posted charts a couple pages back. Should note though that even well out from your second vaccine shot you have a much higher level protection against hospitalization and death than an unvaccinated person.
 
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time2roll

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But .... why do you think the US is in the top 20 for highest number of deaths per capita out of about 200 countries?

Preventing deaths seems to be the most important thing .... why are we failing at that?
Could be that many lost their jobs that provided medical care, larger portion of uninsured in America.
This may cause people to present at the emergency room later in the course of the disease as compared to other countries with socialized medicine.
 
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