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diy solar

diy solar

Thermal cam, best purchase I've ever made....

I would mention that the thermal imaging sensor is only 120x90 and no real image camera.
If I was mostly going to use it to try to find lose connections or other hot spots in electrical application would it be worth $240? A quick googling revealed the E4 is a ~$1000 and that's out of my budget.
 
If I was mostly going to use it to try to find lose connections or other hot spots in electrical application would it be worth $240? A quick googling revealed the E4 is a ~$1000 and that's out of my budget.
Hopefully someone else can chime in. I simply don't know if it is the best bang for buck but would think it would work for simply seeing if there is an issue.
 
Hopefully someone else can chime in. I simply don't know if it is the best bang for buck but would think it would work for simply seeing if there is an issue.
I would stick with Flir. Whatever model you can afford.
The Flir One Pro has a lot of features and is cheaper because it uses your phone screen and GPU.
All of them are fine for detecting a single hot spot but you might also want to find thermal leaks in your insulation and this is where a Flir really works well.
 
Hmmm one change in 10 Years :rolleyes:
The biggest problem you will have with any of these IR devices is when the Internal battery goes bad and you find out that the manufacturer no longer has replacements in stock! Then your looking at eBay for cheap Chinese replacements and those typically don't hold a charge.
Easy to change...
4 minute mark
 
It's not the changing I have problems with, it's finding the battery. Even now I have a Roomba S9+ at home and I cannot get a battery for it.
I have ordered it from Roomba and it's on Back order. Keep in Mind the S9 is there current top of line model
 
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I don't have a Flir to compare it to. The Uni-T has had no problems finding hot spots for me, worth every penny.
 
If I was mostly going to use it to try to find lose connections or other hot spots in electrical application would it be worth $240? A quick googling revealed the E4 is a ~$1000 and that's out of my budget.
It truly is you get what you pay for..

Buy once Cry once..
 
I was going to stay out of this post but since it popped up again I am just going to say that anybody thinking of getting a Thermal Camera made in China should think again. I have tried three different models and they all suffer from the same issue, which is low dynamic range.

Flir had the market pretty much sewn up, they make their cameras in America but then they went into a partnership with DJI in China to make thermal cameras for DJI Drones with the manufacturing for DJI drone Cameras done in China. Within about two years the typical thing was happening. DJI was evidently making Cameras and selling them on the grey market to other companies. When Flir found out about it they broke off the deal and DJI started to make the Cameras without Flirs help. Evidently there is some secret sauce in the way Flir makes their sensors that DJI and the other Chinese companies it partnered with could not figure out. All three of the Chinese Versions that I tested had the same Dynamic Range issue.

Here is the most expensive one i tried and I put it up head to head against the iPhone Flir One Pro Camera.
HiKMicro B20 (Price $550) (Resolution 256 x 192)

Flir One Pro ($399) (Resolution 160 x 120)

Almost all the Chinese cameras I tried had much more resolution than the Flir, so they should have beat it easily in image quality but they didn't. Add that to the Dynamic Range issue and it makes things a lot worst.


So here is an example with the Visual Light Camera Turned off and all you are seeing is the Thermal Camera image of my Work bench soldering Iron.

HikMicro B20
View attachment 90643

Same Image on the Flir One Pro
View attachment 90645

As you can see the Chinese IR sensor is able to easily pickup the heat at the hottest spots but it cannot detect heat that is radiating nearby. One would say the sensor is blinded by the heat but that is really not the case. I did extensive comparisons on all four models and it is just a case of low dynamic range. It can only see within a limited range at one time.

The Flir not only see's the hottest objects but it can see the heat reflected off of objects nearby as well as the heat going down the handle of the soldering Iron into the stand etc.


Here is the Photos with the Visual Camera Turned on in Overlay Mode.

Flir One Pro
View attachment 90647

HikMicro B20
View attachment 90649

These pictures pretty much speak for themselves.
The HikMicro produced Images that were ever just slightly better than the other two Chinese cameras I used.
All of the Chinese Thermal cams in this Sub $600 Price range seemed to use the same sensor and had exactly the same issue. I even tried a Knock off version of the Flir Pro one that fits under the Phone and it was even worst than the Hikmicro and had the same Dynamic Range Issue.

If you don't believe these Picture I have ones of AC Duct work where you cannot even see half of the cold leaks with Chinese versions but you can see them all with the Flir.

As for those cherry picked review comments. If you look the vast majority of people had no issues. I just push on the Flir to my phone and I know its there so I don't bang around the Phone while it's attached. When i am done taking thermal pictures I take it off and slip it in my pocket.

If your really paranoid then buy one of these and the problem is solved: Lightning Cable Extender
I bought one after reading those breaking off posts but in the end I never really used it.

I was told that the Water Marks in the Flir are there because the Chinese companies are using Flir Images and then layering their GUI into the picture with Photoshop and then use it when doing adverts for their products.
So it's basically copyright protection by Flir.
Typical Chinese IP theft.

That is why it’s so hard to design and manufacture anything here in the states.

You can’t get it made here so you have to turn to China or some other Asian country which uses slave labor.

The first thing they do is reverse engineer it then blast out clones and kill the company they partnered with.

Or better yet install Spychips in them that sends everything back to the CCP.

Try to sue them and suddenly it’s a Chinese Government back company. Can’t sue a country.

If we had Tarrifs on the incoming stuff then people would lose their minds.
“What do you mean I can’t buy cheap Chinese stuff anymore ?”

They don’t realize they are perpetuating the problem.

Everything we buy from China directly affects what’s left of our manufacturing base.
 
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Typical Chinese IP theft.

That is why it’s so hard to design and manufacture anything here in the states.

You can’t get it made here so you have to turn to China or some other Asian country which uses slave labor.

The first thing they do is reverse engineer it then blast out clones and kill the company they partnered with.

Or better yet install Spychips in them that sends everything back to the CCP.
That is exactly the problem and it amazes me that we have some people in other threads that seem to believe that most consumer stuff is actually designed in China :ROFLMAO:. I can tell you from first hand experience that they have very little interest in designing anything if they don't have to. It's much easier to lure American and European companies in and just take the IP than waste a few years trying to perfect their own design.

This is why leading edge companies like ASLM keep the Chinese far away from their tech. They will sell them first and second generation machines because they are outdated but anything past that cannot even go near to China.
It's also one of the reasons they are so rabid to get their hands on Taiwan, because anybody that controls TSMC pretty much controls the majority of high tech chip manufacturing for the whole planet including the worlds military tech supply line.

As for the Spyware stuff, has anybody recently bought a Chinese Security Camera System? If you have, you will notice that these devices do not work unless you let their App have access to your phones GPS system during the setup phase. So basically they not only have access to the video but they also know it's location.
This might seem trivial but when you have hundreds of thousands of these devices in an adversarial country you can literally use the ones that are positioned down drive ways towards the streets to track the movements of vehicles and people. It's not difficult to compile a database of cameras on a map and then use the right ones to watch the movement of a surveillance target like a convoy of troops being recalled to a military base. With luck they can monitor every road that leads in and out of a military base in the US.
 
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While I'm all for buying something made in the U.S.A. when it's available, there is no way I was paying 3x the price for an inferior camera.
I've had the FLIR One Pro, and I've worked with several others but the Uni-T 260B is a great tool.
 
Where are the Flir cameras made?
Per BH Photo:
"FLIR products are primarily manufactured in the USA from globally sourced materials." (2017 date)


I don't own one, so can't say for sure.
Apparently, some are also manufactured in Estonia.

 
The FLIR gets better contrast due to software enhancement (perfectly legitimate and normal).

80 x 60 resolution FLIR (cheapest I could find on Amazon) $229 :


256 x 192 resolution (I wanted the higher resolution, but their software is not as advanced) $292 :


120 x 90 resolution (a highly recommended model on eevblog) $173 :


Only you can decide if you wish the higher resolution or better enhancement/contrast.
How much are you going to use it?

I recommend doing some research (eevblog linked above is a great place to start). Uni-T is one of the better Chinese brands.

Edit to make the eevblog link to the thermal camera section of their forum.
 
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Any comments on the KleinTI250? HomeDepot is having "pro appreciation event" which gets them down to $240. Check it out here.
I have one and really have not done anything with it like demo'd here, it works but the annoying part is when it re-Calibrates every 30 seconds or so.
 
Shouldn't affect you if you never use it, I use mine all the time and I don't mind the occasional screen pause for less than a second to save the thousand dollars or more over Flir's.. PS, they all calibrate..... https://www.flir.com/discover/professional-tools/what-is-a-non-uniformity-correction-nuc/
Duh, but when I do use it for something its a pain. Since I have never had one before its nice to know they all do it. I read all the negatives about the Flirs and decided to pass but I did us mine for checking wall and window insulation. I will use it more when I get my solar up and running.
 
I was going to stay out of this post but since it popped up again I am just going to say that anybody thinking of getting a Thermal Camera made in China should think again. I have tried three different models and they all suffer from the same issue, which is low dynamic range.
[...]
Here is the most expensive one i tried and I put it up head to head against the iPhone Flir One Pro Camera.
HiKMicro B20 (Price $550) (Resolution 256 x 192)

Flir One Pro ($399) (Resolution 160 x 120)

Almost all the Chinese cameras I tried had much more resolution than the Flir, so they should have beat it easily in image quality but they didn't. Add that to the Dynamic Range issue and it makes things a lot worst.

So here is an example with the Visual Light Camera Turned off and all you are seeing is the Thermal Camera image of my Work bench soldering Iron.

HikMicro B20
View attachment 90643

Same Image on the Flir One Pro
View attachment 90645

As you can see the Chinese IR sensor is able to easily pickup the heat at the hottest spots but it cannot detect heat that is radiating nearby. One would say the sensor is blinded by the heat but that is really not the case. I did extensive comparisons on all four models and it is just a case of low dynamic range. It can only see within a limited range at one time.
@robby
On the HIKMICRO B20 pic above it shows a temp.-range between 338.6°C and 19.5 °C. But what range has the FLIR One Pro? That's not displayed. Thats for sure a software issue. I would also bet that the temp range on the FLIR One Pro is not as high as the HIKMICRO B20 and the lowest temp shown on the FLIR pic is in my opinion much higher.

Coincidentally, I saw exactly the two photos in the Amazon reviews recently. I assume that was you? ?

Incidentally sensors from "Infiray" are installed in the UNI-T devices, quite high-quality sensors (in-house development). The problem with the UNI-T devices is that they are cheaply assembled. Here is a comparison between the quality of the UNI-T devices and the devices from HIKMICRO:

1. UNI-T 260B Teardown
eevblog: UNI-T 260B Teardown (click here)
There are many users on the eevblog-forum who keep complaining about image spots on newly arrived UNI-T devices. Apparently there's something wrong with quality control: some people found fingerprints from inside the device on the lenses or the lack of brass screw inserts in the plastic casing. Fingerprints on the lens is not particularly annoying with thermal imagers but fits in well with the rest of the quality design. It is clear: If you offer something cheap you have to save costs somewhere!

The problem is that if there is a speck of dust on the sensor somewhere and it falls off during shipping the calibration is no longer correct and there will be uncorrectable image errors.

Also the batteries in the UNI-T have no temperature monitoring for charging. Quite risky.


2. Hikvision DS-2TP31 (which is the same company 'HIKMICRO')
eevblog: Hikvision DS-2TP31 [=HIKMICRO] (click here)
Clear difference with much better quality of the device compared to the UNI-T. The battery temperature is monitored when charging. The sensors in HIKMICRO devices are also in-house developments. See especially the authors summary in post #6.

The assertion that the same sensor is located in each of these Chinese thermal imaging cameras is quite incorrect.

I have to say that I also tend to associate China with cheap goods but there are a few companies that are now catching up. And the quality of their own developments are now on the same level as that of established companies. What is still missing are such software subtleties as here this dynamic range in automatic mode. But honestly: You can easily set it manually to your needs!? From my point of view this is no reason to buy a significantly more expensive device which usually only has 9 Hz.
 
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@robby
On the HIKMICRO B20 pic above it shows a temp.-range between 338.6°C and 19.5 °C. But what range has the FLIR One Pro? That's not displayed. Thats for sure a software issue. I would also bet that the temp range on the FLIR One Pro is not as high as the HIKMICRO B20 and the lowest temp shown on the FLIR pic is in my opinion much higher.

Coincidentally, I saw exactly the two photos in the Amazon reviews recently. I assume that was you? ?

Incidentally sensors from "Infiray" are installed in the UNI-T devices, quite high-quality sensors (in-house development). The problem with the UNI-T devices is that they are cheaply assembled. Here is a comparison between the quality of the UNI-T devices and the devices from HIKMICRO:

1. UNI-T 260B Teardown
eevblog: UNI-T 260B Teardown (click here)
There are many users on the eevblog-forum who keep complaining about image spots on newly arrived UNI-T devices. Apparently there's something wrong with quality control: some people found fingerprints from inside the device on the lenses or the lack of brass screw inserts in the plastic casing. Fingerprints on the lens is not particularly annoying with thermal imagers but fits in well with the rest of the quality design. It is clear: If you offer something cheap you have to save costs somewhere!

The problem is that if there is a speck of dust on the sensor somewhere and it falls off during shipping the calibration is no longer correct and there will be uncorrectable image errors.

Also the batteries in the UNI-T have no temperature monitoring for charging. Quite risky.


2. Hikvision DS-2TP31 (which is the same company 'HIKMICRO')
eevblog: Hikvision DS-2TP31 [=HIKMICRO] (click here)
Clear difference with much better quality of the device compared to the UNI-T. The battery temperature is monitored when charging. The sensors in HIKMICRO devices are also in-house developments. See especially the authors summary in post #6.

The assertion that the same sensor is located in each of these Chinese thermal imaging cameras is quite incorrect.

I have to say that I also tend to associate China with cheap goods but there are a few companies that are now catching up. And the quality of their own developments are now on the same level as that of established companies. What is still missing are such software subtleties as here this dynamic range in automatic mode. But honestly: You can easily set it manually to your needs!? From my point of view this is no reason to buy a significantly more expensive device which usually only has 9 Hz.
I suggest you take a look at the Hikmicro Portable 2.
They really listened to the advice given and have created a thermal camera that rivals the $800 Flir units. I would go as far as to say it has better image quality and dynamic range than most sub $1000 Flir units.

I don't remember the Temp range of the Flir one Pro as that quickly got dethroned by the Hikmicro Portable 2 as my go to camera.
 
I suggest you take a look at the Hikmicro Portable 2.
They really listened to the advice given and have created a thermal camera that rivals the $800 Flir units. I would go as far as to say it has better image quality and dynamic range than most sub $1000 Flir units.

I don't remember the Temp range of the Flir one Pro as that quickly got dethroned by the Hikmicro Portable 2 as my go to camera.
The HIKMICRO Pocket 2 is the same like the B20, but more handy. I also really like to see their updates for device firmwares several times a year and make improvements to their devices. They may have adjusted/solved the "dynamic range" issue in their recent firmware updates if you are happy with the Pocket 2 now?? I don't know, I have never tried the experiment that you have done above with a soldering iron. I'm very sure the devices function now the same, even though the Pocket 2 has a touchscreen and the B20 not. The last firmware update for the B20 was in October with some pic and process improvements.

The processor in the HIKMICRO devices also seems to work faster: the start of the device takes only 8 seconds. With UNI-T it is 20 seconds. :oops:
Oh wow, I saw they also updated their Analyzer Software...

searching finds:
HIKMICRO Pocket2
????
Looks good.
See here:
 
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