Thinking hard about off grid

[Michael Block]

This dumb ass trade war has me in the cross hairs. I’m almost finished with my grid-tie array. But it’s not any good with a power outage caused by a trade war. So I may switch lanes and change it to an Off Grid array. I have a good off grid system at the farm with a 3500 watt inverter, powered by 1800w of solar plus the 5.5 gridtie so I have the wattage of panels. The offgrid system it is a 24v with lithium iron phosphate, should I bite the bullet and switch it to 48v rack array?

 

[MisterSandals]

The offgrid system it is a 24v with lithium iron phosphate, should I bite the bullet and switch it to 48v rack array?

What exactly is the problem that you expect to solve by switching from 24V to 48V?

 

[740GLE]

Power outages caused by a trade war?

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

The short answer is "yes", you should do whatever it takes to get to ...
- energy independence from any grid (and local politics potentially shutting off the grid)
- multiiple forms of energy production, reliably
... such that nothing (politics, economics, weather, disasters, etc.) can stop you from generating your own electricity.

Please list the equipment (inverters, batteries) and voltages at your location(s), and perhaps we can give better advice.

In my case, I'm off-grid, and have multiple forms of energy production (solar, fuel-generators, etc.), and we pretty much weather anything someone could throw at us. I currently have:
- magnum 4024 (LF) inverter-charger/mppt/e-panel (the first AIO), 24v system voltage
- 600Ah battery-bank
- westinghouse wgen11500tfc's (two)
- site propane tanks (fuel lasts forever)

I've pretty much decided that the only replacement solar gear as effective as what I've currently got (as Magnum went out of business) is ...
- MidniteSolar ROSIE 7048 (LF, and AIO-like) w/ e-panel (designed/assembled in America)
- MidniteSolar rack batteries
... which should net me: 48v inverter with field-replaceable unit service (don't have to ship the whole thing back) and LF features (starts large motors and anything else we throw at it).

Most all of the AIO's (other than Midnite's) are either garbage (still just HF, unreliable), problematic (service, warranty), and so on. I'd have to put two of the HF's on the wall to have any chance at reliability, which is extremely important when living rural, at elevation (7400'), and with a family of women, all armed with pitchforks if my off-grid power goes out, and I don't have 10 fallbacks.

Hope this helps ...

 

[SomethingAppropriate]

Power outages caused by a trade war?

Mmmk.

 

[Michael Block]

What exactly is the problem that you expect to solve by switching from 24V to 48V?

Power outages caused by a trade war?

you nailed it on the head. Gridtie was so safe until, the stupidity in our leaders. Were the on the front line not them, I truly believe they could care less. Now that musk is squealing the Whitehouse was swamped with Tesla cars. I use to like Elon anymore I feel he is power hungry. This stuff is going to get serious, and for what? A trade agreement was made in 2019, the same politicians that made it are now saying how bad the agreement was. They wrote the agreement, I don’t see how it’s is my state or the other two states problem. Sorry for ranting.

I don’t know, I’m just asking? I was hoping that 24v was fine but switching to 48v was easy to do. Pretty much just tossing the question to see what others think. I’m ready with the underground already. I think my timeline is sooner now. The reason I started with 24v was for my trolling motor I have on my Thompson boat.

 

[Michael Block]

The short answer is "yes", you should do whatever it takes to get to ...
- energy independence from any grid (and local politics potentially shutting off the grid)
- multiiple forms of energy production, reliably
... such that nothing (politics, economics, weather, disasters, etc.) can stop you from generating your own electricity.

Please list the equipment (inverters, batteries) and voltages at your location(s), and perhaps we can give better advice.

In my case, I'm off-grid, and have multiple forms of energy production (solar, fuel-generators, etc.), and we pretty much weather anything someone could throw at us. I currently have:
- magnum 4024 (LF) inverter-charger/mppt/e-panel (the first AIO), 24v system voltage
- 600Ah battery-bank
- westinghouse wgen11500tfc's (two)
- site propane tanks (fuel lasts forever)

I've pretty much decided that the only replacement solar gear as effective as what I've currently got (as Magnum went out of business) is ...
- MidniteSolar ROSIE 7048 (LF, and AIO-like) w/ e-panel (designed/assembled in America)
- MidniteSolar rack batteries
... which should net me: 48v inverter with field-replaceable unit service (don't have to ship the whole thing back) and LF features (starts large motors and anything else we throw at it).

Most all of the AIO's (other than Midnite's) are either garbage (still just HF, unreliable), problematic (service, warranty), and so on. I'd have to put two of the HF's on the wall to have any chance at reliability, which is extremely important when living rural, at elevation (7400'), and with a family of women, all armed with pitchforks if my off-grid power goes out, and I don't have 10 fallbacks.

Hope this helps ...

I will thank you

 

[MisterSandals]

I don’t know, I’m just asking? I was hoping that 24v was fine but switching to 48v was easy to do.

I think 48V is far superior to 24V for most home installations. But if you already have 24V equipment, i would need a compelling reason ($$$ is a good reason) to upgrade.

I have a good off grid system at the farm with a 3500 watt inverter,

Does this run on both 24V and 48V? Scrapping a working inverter, especially if a good reliable unit is hard for me to justify cost-wise.

But if you're maxing out your 24V system with very high amps and are facing the need to require and re-fuse, then going to 48V will cut the amps in half, potentially saving money.

I don't know your situation and motivations so cannot recommend a solution.

 

[Michael Block]

I think 48V is far superior to 24V for most home installations. But if you already have 24V equipment, i would need a compelling reason ($$$ is a good reason) to upgrade.

Does this run on both 24V and 48V? Scrapping a working inverter, especially if a good reliable unit is hard for me to justify cost-wise.

But if you're maxing out your 24V system with very high amps and are facing the need to require and re-fuse, then going to 48V will cut the amps in half, potentially saving money.

I don't know your situation and motivations so cannot recommend a solution.

Thats the reason I was thinking. 48v from my solar rack to the house. I spared nothing, my under ground was built for 250 amp. I over sized it for gridtie expansion, so I’m great underground I also put a 20 opening sub panel on the outside of my house. My panel was full inside, I put a lot of work and money into it. So it’s ready for whatever. I even went as far as to bury two complete trunk lines Under ground for a backup underground, one was going to be a gridtie the other was for offgrid. Yes I love to play.

 

[Michael Block]

I think 48V is far superior to 24V for most home installations. But if you already have 24V equipment, i would need a compelling reason ($$$ is a good reason) to upgrade.

Does this run on both 24V and 48V? Scrapping a working inverter, especially if a good reliable unit is hard for me to justify cost-wise.

But if you're maxing out your 24V system with very high amps and are facing the need to require and re-fuse, then going to 48V will cut the amps in half, potentially saving money.

I don't know your situation and motivations so cannot recommend a solution.

Thank you man, I learn so much from all you folks out there.

 

[MisterSandals]

48v from my solar rack to the house. I spared nothing, my under ground was built for 250 amp.

Are you inverting where your solar rack (assuming a rack is slang for a battery in Michigan?) is located or are running DC into the house.

I just reread from the top.

switch it to 48v rack array?

Is a "rack array" slang for a solar array? Or ??? Why all the made up terms?

 

[OzSolar]

Thank you man, I learn so much from all you folks out there.

Just a few more cents.... Have you heard of the 80/20 Rule? AKA "Perfect is the enemy of good enough" It applies to many things, including making your own power.

Basically what it means is that you can get to ~80% of ideal relatively quickly easily. Each percent above 80% gets exponentially harder until that last few percent is impossible. It sounds like your already there, other then what I will offer IMHO is a very unlikely scenario.

 

[quantum`]

Why increment to 48v when you can HV?

SunGold. This is a high-grade, HV, HF inverter for an unbeatable value. LF is from the vacuum tube days. Every computer in existence uses switching (HF) power supplies. Powerline comms, not janky wireless.

Someone tell me why I'm wrong. Show me better specs.

 

[robby]

Why increment to 48v when you can HV?

SunGold. This is a high-grade, HV, HF inverter for an unbeatable value. LF is from the vacuum tube days. Every computer in existence uses switching (HF) power supplies. Powerline comms, not janky wireless.

Someone tell me why I'm wrong. Show me better specs.

You are not wrong but HV is more expensive, a lot less equipment options and is kind of overkill for Home usage, plus it's not DIY friendly.
I would go to 48V and get a Hybrid Inverter and keep the Grid as a backup.

 

[quantum`]

Inverter's far cheaper. And add some more batteries for HV. Smaller conductors, (greater chance to get killed if you're drunk - at least it will be fast), and more efficient operation. What's not to like?

 

[robby]

Inverter's far cheaper. And add some more batteries for HV. Smaller conductors, (greater chance to get killed if you're drunk - at least it will be fast), and more efficient operation. What's not to like?

Battery entry point is expensive. You cannot start out with two packs, you are pretty much all in money wise at the start with typically 6 packs at roughly $1500 each. I don't even see many HV batteries for sale. Very limited options and price ranges in every direction.

 

[Skypower]

Inverter's far cheaper. And add some more batteries for HV. Smaller conductors, (greater chance to get killed if you're drunk - at least it will be fast), and more efficient operation. What's not to like?

All true, just really really need to accentuate the lethality factor. Like, there’s a big reason why you won’t do “that” again.

 

[robby]

Just a few more cents.... Have you heard of the 80/20 Rule? AKA "Perfect is the enemy of good enough" It applies to many things, including making your own power.

Basically what it means is that you can get to ~80% of ideal relatively quickly easily. Each percent above 80% gets exponentially harder until that last few percent is impossible. It sounds like your already there, other then what I will offer IMHO is a very unlikely scenario.

Very true!
I am 10% away from energy independence but adding another battery will be a complete loss in terms of ROI. vs my tiny electric bill.
I am still going to do it just for bragging rights but it’s still a financial waste of time.

 

[Michael Block]

Are you inverting where your solar rack (assuming a rack is slang for a battery in Michigan?) is located or are running DC into the house.

I just reread from the top.

Is a "rack array" slang for a solar array? Or ??? Why all the made up terms?

Grid tie or off grid, I always invert at the solar rack. I want dc as short as possible, far less line with 220 ac.

 

[Michael Block]

Are you inverting where your solar rack (assuming a rack is slang for a battery in Michigan?) is located or are running DC into the house.

I just reread from the top.

Is a "rack array" slang for a solar array? Or ??? Why all the made up terms?

Not a made up term, a solar rack is what the solar array is attacked to. Rack, Rails the panels. That the term used in Michigan ever sense I started in the 80ies. The difference all we had was lead acid, we used 24v Fork Lift batteries.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Just a few more cents.... Have you heard of the 80/20 Rule? AKA "Perfect is the enemy of good enough" It applies to many things, including making your own power.

Basically what it means is that you can get to ~80% of ideal relatively quickly easily. Each percent above 80% gets exponentially harder until that last few percent is impossible. It sounds like your already there, other then what I will offer IMHO is a very unlikely scenario.

So true..