This could be interesting

ghostwriter66

"Here - Hold my Beer"
Do note that when you get solar panels in the US from China you'll be hit with import tariffs.


We don't have that in the EU, so it's much more convenient to import them.

This is what makes my head explode ... so the new administration kills my industry (oil) ... put easily 5K ppl directly or associated out of work in Texas ... about 80K US-wide ... prices of fuel has doubled -- and we are forecasting that fuel across the board will be up 88-cents a gallon by Christmas ... we now rely again on expensive foreign oil to make up the difference .... anyway -- the Government makes all these promises that SOLAR will have 100,000 new HIGH TECH jobs that these guys can all go into and then at the same time continue a policy that puts huge tariffs on the solar cells coming in ... The 3 largest solar cell companies in the US have all either filed for Bankruptcy or are about to, and of those promised 100K jobs that the current administration and AOC Green new Deal folks forecasted, only about 1200 of them ever materialized and that was as roof installers - not exactly the high tech jobs folks were promising ... You can't cry that Solar is the future and then tariff the hell out of future ... aaaggghhhh
 

DerpsyDoodler

Photon Sorcerer
This is what makes my head explode ... so the new administration kills my industry (oil) ... put easily 5K ppl directly or associated out of work in Texas ... about 80K US-wide ... prices of fuel has doubled -- and we are forecasting that fuel across the board will be up 88-cents a gallon by Christmas ... we now rely again on expensive foreign oil to make up the difference .... anyway -- the Government makes all these promises that SOLAR will have 100,000 new HIGH TECH jobs that these guys can all go into and then at the same time continue a policy that puts huge tariffs on the solar cells coming in ... The 3 largest solar cell companies in the US have all either filed for Bankruptcy or are about to, and of those promised 100K jobs that the current administration and AOC Green new Deal folks forecasted, only about 1200 of them ever materialized and that was as roof installers - not exactly the high tech jobs folks were promising ... You can't cry that Solar is the future and then tariff the hell out of future ... aaaggghhhh
Aren’t the tariffs you speak of a hold over from the trump administration? I am not up to date on current events. Do you have specific details? Perhaps supported by viable journalist or academic references?
 

solardad

Solar Addict
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/us-solar-industry-to-lose-jobs-trump-tariffsAren’t the tariffs you speak of a hold over from the trump administration? I am not up to date on current events. Do you have specific details? Perhaps supported by viable journalist or academic references?
Correct.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...jobs-white-house-says-fake-news-idUSKBN1Y71V8

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/us-solar-industry-to-lose-jobs-trump-tariffs
 

Haugen

Tron God
As we spend trillions of dollars on cheap Chinese solar panels, we keep all of the Chinese factories operating. In the meantime, solar manufacturing elsewhere is going down the tube.
When the tariffs level the playing field to compensate for the Chinese government subsidies, North America manufacturers can compete and many times you get a superior product for the same price.

Why do this at all when it makes solar more expensive?
Not sure if you've heard about it yet, but there is a semiconductor shortage. Many manufacturers can't get the electronic components to build products. I believe that this is, in part, due to so much silicon being put on our roofs and into all of the solar farms instead of being made into microchips.
This is a crossroads of sorts.
Do you want cheap solar panels, or cheap electronics? A balance needs to be struck.
No sense having limitless energy if you have nothing to run with it. No need for electronics if we don't have power to operate them.

I chose Canadian SilFab panels for my install. I intentionally went with products made by North America companies. Sure, I paid more than I had to. That's okay by me to help make sure my neighbor has a job.
 

upnorthandpersonal

Administrator
I believe that this is, in part, due to so much silicon being put on our roofs and into all of the solar farms instead of being made into microchips.

Sorry, no. The reason is COVID. Manufacturing plants went down (mandatory shutdowns), and we've been running on existing stock since then. Supply chains were severely disrupted, and still are. Now this stock is depleted and we're playing catch-up to increase stock levels again, and getting the components shipped as well (still not running as it was). It's not just silicon components - resistors, capacitors, etc. as well. Silicon itself is abundant, and there is plenty for both microchips and solar cells, which are fabbed in different facilities anyway.

A couple of sources:



 

shekeine

New Member
So, instead of just doing the usual and buying some Victron and Batrium equipment and calling it a day, I went shopping on Alibaba and Aliexpress to see if I could build my entire 32x280Ah and 10kW solar panels system for under 10K Euro, keeping in mind the power and charge requirements - so not under sizing. This is what I'm getting, all including shipping and tax:

WhatWhereCost
20x 500W mono panelsYangtze Solar Power (Alibaba)€3733.56
32x 280Ah LiFePO4Shenzen Haomi Electronic (Alibaba)€3215.5
5kW pure sine inverterReliable Electric Power Store (Aliexpress)€517.91
BMS 16S 100A (x2)thanksforyou Store (aliexpress)€175
MUST PC18-10015F 100A MPPT SCC (x2)MUST Energy (Alibaba)€529.46

Total: €8171.43

Is this all going to work perfectly? Doubt it, but we'll see. If that BMS is any good I'll upgrade it to the 200A version which is 2.5 times as expensive, so that would become €368 for both together. It seems to be the upgraded version of the one Will finally found that had low temp cut-off. This is well under my target of €10K, and I'm especially looking forward to how that charge controller is going to be doing and what that inverter can actually handle. I'll test it all in-depth and I'll post an update once I know more.
Hey hey, I am doing something very similar for my family house down in Kenya. One piece of unsolicited advice to you however would be: get the precision stuff/brains of the solar project from well known makers in Europe/US. Do not take chances with that. With my project, I am getting the batteries (12V, four pieces) and panels from the one Alibaba supplier, a passive balancer from Aliexpress to keep the battery bank in balance and will go with the Victron EasySolar module as the brains of the operation. I had researched a lot on Chinese inverter brans (notably Growatt) and found far too many reports of dismal perfomance, early failures and so on. I would really stick with SMA/Victron for the inverter/monitoring solution.
 

upnorthandpersonal

Administrator
Personally, the BMS has been working without issues for a year now. The (low frequency MUST EP3000) inverter is a beast and I've been using its charger as well without issues. One of the reasons I did this was to figure out how the rest of the industry is comparing to Victron nowadays - some seem to catch up rapidly.
 

Luthj

Photon Sorcerer
The high density micro processor shortage has almost nothing to do with supply reductions, these types of high-tech processors such as CPUs and GPUs have their production planned 18 months to two years in advance. due to Covid in other factors there has been a strong increase in demand for these types of products. This has resulted in demand increasing 30% year-over-year while supply has only increased five to 10%. something similar happen to the automotive manufacturers. They wrongly anticipated a large reduction in vehicle demand, so they released their reserved microprocessor manufacturing capacity. That capacity was then sold to somebody else. So they ended up shooting themselves in the foot. there are only a handful of factories in the world they can make some of the highest tech in this arena. And there are only two companies that manufacture the absolutely insane equipment required to produce 7-20nm transistors.

PV cells are manufactured using a completely different process and don't require UV lithography. The Silicon crystals used to manufacture the cells are also of a lower quality and purity than the ones used for high tech processors.

Unfortunately very few people have an in-depth grasp of the technical and mechanics of trade tariffs etc (including myself). But almost everybody has a strongly held opinion or emotional attachment to the subject. Which of course makes sussing out the actual details a challenge.

Is there anything wrong with the government producing a dominant industry through internal intervention? For example the United States government gives enormous tax breaks, land grants and other benefits to fossil fuel producers. Is that unfair to foreign producers of oil/gas? There are no simple answers.
 

upnorthandpersonal

Administrator
strong increase in demand for these types of products

That actually compounded the problem. It's not just high end processors that are in short supply, it's also resistors and capacitors, and the most common transistors and mosfets.


"Foxconn also saw slowdowns in manufacturing last spring at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, following mandatory government shutdowns and quarantined factory workers."


"As the coronavirus spread around the world, so did the components shortages. Factories in Malaysia, the Philippines and Indonesia couldn't produce or ship parts. As a result, OEMs worldwide could not manufacture their own products either.

Ultimately, it did not matter where the supplier was or where the end product was produced; entire supply chains were clogged by the pandemic, and all the inventory and flexibility had been sucked out of the market. The lead time for high-end semiconductors, which is usually long, doubled from 18 weeks to 36 weeks."
 

upnorthandpersonal

Administrator
It seems to be the same, however I would make sure that it's the newer 'Plus' version instead of the 'Pro'. Check the comparison here:


As for my power draw (I have the 6kW version) - I have run a test drawing 5kW for as long as I could without issues. I also tested inductive loads by hooking up several pumps/motors (well pump, electric wood splitter, etc.) and starting/stopping them without issues.
 

mmdb

Solar Enthusiast
Going back a week, I'm shopping around for an inverter or two. The MUST EP3000 PRO appears identical to the Fuel Zero https://www.fuelzero.com/3000-9000w...requency-Inverter-p/fz-ep3000-lv-48v-3000.htm at $479 seems like a great deal and without the long wait from China.
upnorthanpersonal, what kind of power draw do you have when in use?
I also have 6kw version plus ..i just start testing it yesterday ..i hooked up metabo vacuum for few hours 990w (220v) and power draw that i read on jk bms is constantly swiching from 1000 to most ive seen was 1170w (was looking jk app all the time lol) i would say presume average is arround 1070w...iddle consumption is also swiching from 40 to max ive seen 65.8w
 

Haugen

Tron God
Sorry, no. The reason is COVID. Manufacturing plants went down (mandatory shutdowns), and we've been running on existing stock since then. Supply chains were severely disrupted, and still are. Now this stock is depleted and we're playing catch-up to increase stock levels again, and getting the components shipped as well (still not running as it was). It's not just silicon components - resistors, capacitors, etc. as well. Silicon itself is abundant, and there is plenty for both microchips and solar cells, which are fabbed in different facilities anyway.

A couple of sources:



Your sources mentioned, but didn't elaborate on the material shortages that are the root cause of the microchip shortage.
Mandatory shutdowns definitely had a huge impact on everything, but the highly automated processes of the semiconductor industry should have been easy to meet social distancing and other pandemic precautions.

I'll concede that the abundance of silicon won't put us in the conflict scenario I laid out anytime soon, but there is definitely a shortage of Silicon wafers among other rare earth metals used in electronics.

 

Barbar0ssa

Solar Enthusiast
Going back a week, I'm shopping around for an inverter or two. The MUST EP3000 PRO appears identical to the Fuel Zero https://www.fuelzero.com/3000-9000w...requency-Inverter-p/fz-ep3000-lv-48v-3000.htm at $479 seems like a great deal and without the long wait from China.
upnorthanpersonal, what kind of power draw do you have when in use?

It seems like this or the sigeneer are really interesting and this one is really affordable.

Did you end up picking one?

I am looking for something just like this and am having trouble choosing. I am also looking for a cheap 48v inverter to live in the golf cart and power freezers in an emergency or power tools further away from the house. (sorry for hijack)
 

upnorthandpersonal

Administrator
Since I don't believe I ever shared a picture of the battery with compression fixture and (flexible, nickel plated) bus bars installed, here goes. Note that this was taken somewhere in the assembly process and is thus not complete. Additionally, this entire set-up fits in an insulated box with additional heaters. The copper braid on the bus bars is darker due to the nickel plating process (some of the nickel acetate gets in the braid) - I like the look. The compression frame is made from left-over wood from the log house and has 4xM10 bars - they have a plastic tube cover in the final version.

20210422_130857.jpg
 

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
Shouldn't you have a compression spring between the nut and the plate to keep pressure somewhat constant as the pouches expand/contract from heat to keep the pressure from exceeding 18 psi?

I realize a spring isn't perfect due to Hooke's law, but a long compression spring should suffice for the short range of motion in expansion. Without a spring, even small thermal variances could put enormous pressure on them.
1620038865298.png
 
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