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This is my electrical bill, what would you build to go off grid?

LittleLebowski

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 20, 2022
Messages
180
Location
Wyoming
Location is northern Wyoming, lots of solar, plenty of land to build on, no problem at all with southern exposure. No worries about neighbors, trees, etc.

My local solar guy recommends and uses Sol Ark, I was thinking a big ground mount array of bifacials, a Sol Ark 15k, and two 14.3kw EG4 wall mount all weather batteries.

Here is my electric bill. I’m open to thoughts and suggestions. Not worried about cost of this.
 

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"Backup with Benefits" I ended up setting the transfer switch and critical loads up for a generator and then plugged solar in.
 
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"Backup with Benefits" You can add batteries and solar as you are ready. Change out your transfer switch to have input from generator or external input.
 
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Location is northern Wyoming, lots of solar, plenty of land to build on, no problem at all with southern exposure. No worries about neighbors, trees, etc.

My local solar guy recommends and uses Sol Ark, I was thinking a big ground mount array of bifacials, a Sol Ark 15k, and two 14.3kw EG4 wall mount all weather batteries.

Here is my electric bill. I’m open to thoughts and suggestions.
So it sounds like you'd be hiring the install out to a pro. That's fine but generally costs 2x what it might run you if you did the labor and purchased the items yourself. Either is fine, it just can greatly change the payback period for your solar.

A lot depends on what you are trying to do, be totally independent from the grid, just have a backup for critical circuits, or design something that starts with the later but can be grown over time to the first. Whether or not you intend to sell back to the grid and your local PoCo rules may come into play. And if this will be an inspected system then your building dept rules will matter as well.

Once you know the answer to these Q's about what you are trying to do, and what regulations/inspections you need to pass, then it should be possible to get more specific about the equipment you mention. But as a first pass, Sol-Ark is a good quality AIO, many people like them, but they are priced fairly high. The EG4 batts have a generally good rep too, but IIRC are not certified to work with Sol-Ark. Again it all depends on those details I mentioned above. If your AJH requires UL9450, that inverter/batt combo may not pass. If you will not be selling back to the grid, there are less expensive inverters which do not have the certifications for sell back which would work for you. Etc, etc.

Keep in mind, many installers have a favorite group of equipment they like to sell. They push that, regardless of whether or not that is the best solution for a given customer. By educating yourself about the design choices and trade-offs, you can make an informed selection of the equipment that best fits your needs.
 
So it sounds like you'd be hiring the install out to a pro. That's fine but generally costs 2x what it might run you if you did the labor and purchased the items yourself. Either is fine, it just can greatly change the payback period for your solar.

A lot depends on what you are trying to do, be totally independent from the grid, just have a backup for critical circuits, or design something that starts with the later but can be grown over time to the first. Whether or not you intend to sell back to the grid and your local PoCo rules may come into play. And if this will be an inspected system then your building dept rules will matter as well.

Once you know the answer to these Q's about what you are trying to do, and what regulations/inspections you need to pass, then it should be possible to get more specific about the equipment you mention. But as a first pass, Sol-Ark is a good quality AIO, many people like them, but they are priced fairly high. The EG4 batts have a generally good rep too, but IIRC are not certified to work with Sol-Ark. Again it all depends on those details I mentioned above. If your AJH requires UL9450, that inverter/batt combo may not pass. If you will not be selling back to the grid, there are less expensive inverters which do not have the certifications for sell back which would work for you. Etc, etc.

Keep in mind, many installers have a favorite group of equipment they like to sell. They push that, regardless of whether or not that is the best solution for a given customer. By educating yourself about the design choices and trade-offs, you can make an informed selection of the equipment that best fits your needs.
Again, not worried about payback period.
 
Have you looked at your peaks, i.e., what is the most power you use? I'm still building my system. I installed an Emporia Vue about 3 months before I started making any purchases just to analyze utilization. The SolArk being what it is and guessing based on your bill, I think you'd be fine with the inverter, depending on your loads. (Editorial: SolArk irritates me, they've made it impossible to get variations on the inverter in the US, like a Deye, who is the OEM. There's a better than good chance a Deye would be on my wall otherwise). It's good equipment though from what I've seen, they're just awful proud of it ($$) relative to other similar products. If you want your local installer to do the work and you're not doing it, all good.

Reason I'm asking about peaks - I have a family of 4 including me. Load comes in bursts I've found: water heater, washer/dryer/dishwasher. I run server equipment as well. The other day I was peaking > 10kwh for a bit. Though I can fall back to the grid I'd rather not. The only time I do is when power's cheapest, for charging at present.

Any plans to sell back, or just doing a grid tied zero export?

Sounds like you're going to have someone do the work, or are you planning on doing some?

And, while I appreciate the sentiment so many have had in my personal circle about ROI, I have to say I agree. I don't want a system predicated on saving money per se, though that's a nice side effect. I want protection from power company issues and a degree of self-sufficiency. ROI for me is 1) this stuff is way fun and 2) I have a warm fuzzy because I know when I'm done I can make it through a day with minimal sacrifice if the power's out. I don't have to go dig the generator out if there's an issue, although I'll be able to dig it out and charge if I need to.
 
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That’s the southern part of the state. As I mentioned, I’m in the northern part of the state.
I took a leap of faith. Is it fair to say that HVAC is your biggest consumption? I installed a mini-split in our bedroom and ran it off solar and it made a huge impact. I saved more than I produced by not having to cool the entire home.
 
Location is northern Wyoming, lots of solar, plenty of land to build on, no problem at all with southern exposure. No worries about neighbors, trees, etc.

My local solar guy recommends and uses Sol Ark, I was thinking a big ground mount array of bifacials, a Sol Ark 15k, and two 14.3kw EG4 wall mount all weather batteries.

Here is my electric bill. I’m open to thoughts and suggestions. Not worried about cost of this.

Youre not going off grid with a solark 15k. im assuming you have some big air conditioners that have high surge?

For off grid i would be looking at either two or four victron 48 10000s.

For about the same price as solark (two 10ks) but far greater surge capability and also better integration with a generator
 
Seriously though, it's going to take a long time to pay off. ;)

The math for off-grid vs. grid tied is 77 cents/day (your base charge). You can't buy hardly any battery for that. EG: enough battery to get you through 12hrs of no grid/sun will probably handle 99% of your power outages for the next 10 years. Double or tripling that just to get an extra day or two just doesn't make $ense in my book.

Based on that I wouldn't even think about off grid.

14.3kw EG4 wall mount all weather batteries.
Just how all weather are they in Northern MT? That's what I want to know, and it how wise is it to be reliant on something that will be self heating anytime it's below 32F. Just food for thought.
 
I rarely go below 80Kwh, but it took quite a bit to get off the grid. Your average is not too far off from ours. Supplementing with a pellet stove helped immensely during the long days of clouds and sub-30 degrees. You can look at my signature to get a basic idea.
 
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Seriously though, it's going to take a long time to pay off. ;)

The math for off-grid vs. grid tied is 77 cents/day (your base charge). You can't buy hardly any battery for that. EG: enough battery to get you through 12hrs of no grid/sun will probably handle 99% of your power outages for the next 10 years. Double or tripling that just to get an extra day or two just doesn't make $ense in my book.

Based on that I wouldn't even think about off grid.


Just how all weather are they in Northern MT? That's what I want to know, and it how wise is it to be reliant on something that will be self heating anytime it's below 32F. Just food for thought.
I would always pair a set of batteries. 1) Redundancy and 2) load distribution. If his loads are high peak/surge, spreading that out is easier on the BMS and cells. And I don't think he cares about cost in that way.
 
Location is northern Wyoming, lots of solar, plenty of land to build on, no problem at all with southern exposure. No worries about neighbors, trees, etc.

My local solar guy recommends and uses Sol Ark, I was thinking a big ground mount array of bifacials, a Sol Ark 15k, and two 14.3kw EG4 wall mount all weather batteries.

Here is my electric bill. I’m open to thoughts and suggestions. Not worried about cost of this.
You don't have a whole years usage so it is a bit difficult to extrapolate. Your highest monthly amount so far is ~2500kWh. To accomplish this in the Summer, where you are at with at best 5 hours of average solar production, you will need 2500kWh/30 days=84kWh/day 84kWh/5h= 16800W worth of panels. In Winter that may jump to 42,000W worth of panels for a days average of 2 hours solar production. In order to store a days worth with batteries plus leeway you would likely want ~ 2-3 times the daily PV production. Thus somewhere in the 50 to 100kWh range (amp-hour times battery voltage gives you watt-hour).
 
Location is northern Wyoming, lots of solar, plenty of land to build on, no problem at all with southern exposure. No worries about neighbors, trees, etc.

My local solar guy recommends and uses Sol Ark, I was thinking a big ground mount array of bifacials, a Sol Ark 15k, and two 14.3kw EG4 wall mount all weather batteries.

Here is my electric bill. I’m open to thoughts and suggestions. Not worried about cost of this.
2,500 kWh per month is about 83 kWh per day.

Off-grid, you want 3 days of batteries, so 18 EG4 14kWh Powerpro batteries for 252 kWh of batteries.

To recharge 252kWh of batteries in one day of good sun, you probably need 50kWh of panels. Ground mount them to benefit from bi-facial panels, and easy to maintain.

For inverter, probably need one of the following options to handle that many panels:
1) 3 Sol-Ark 15k's
2) 4 Growatt 10000TL-HU-US
3) 3 EG4 Flexboss 21 with a Gridboss
Probably go with Option 3 because of the ability to have multiple options to shed load when the grid is down.

Generator (for plan B)
10kW to 20kW. A 10kW generator can run for 10 hours to supply 1 day of power. A 20kW generator may be able to run your entire house if your solar stuff goes down.

Note: If you want to rely more on the Generator (and can store the fuel, like propane), then you could downsize the batteries and pv to 2 days worth.

May need more panels for lower winter production (if your winter load is also that high). EG4 makes 5000w Solar Charge Controllers for $400 each. Or you can add another inverter if you want more AC power too. Since the Gridboss can only take 3 Flexboss 21 as "hybrid inverter", you may need to attach another Flexboss 21 or 18kPV into the "AC Coupled PV" connection.
 
My solar guy is pretty much agreeing with you guys. Right mow, I’m leaning towards two EG4 18Ks and four of the 14.3kw wall mounts to begin with. My usage will go down quite a bit in winter due to woodstoves (I hope). Are the EG4 18Ks holding up in the wild?

I do have a 24kw propane generator.
 
My solar guy is pretty much agreeing with you guys. Right mow, I’m leaning towards two EG4 18Ks and four of the 14.3kw wall mounts to begin with. My usage will go down quite a bit in winter due to woodstoves (I hope). Are the EG4 18Ks holding up in the wild?

I do have a 24kw propane generator.

Two 18k pvs , 24kw power $10k
4 growatt sph 10000tlhu us , 40kw of power $10k
4 victron 48 10000s, 32kw of power $11k

Eg4 18k pv would not be my choice. But if it floats your boat ...
 
My solar guy is pretty much agreeing with you guys. Right mow, I’m leaning towards two EG4 18Ks and four of the 14.3kw wall mounts to begin with. My usage will go down quite a bit in winter due to woodstoves (I hope). Are the EG4 18Ks holding up in the wild?

I do have a 24kw propane generator.

If your true goal is energy independence you will need substantially more batteries. Also you should plan on replacement of everything in 7 to 10 year schedule, the electronics maybe closer to every 5 years.

I have more inverter and similar battery capacity as your looking at, and I am in a much more milder climate and I have replaced all the hvac with ducted and ductless heat pumps. I can produce over way over 80kWh day in solar if need be, but limit to what Florida has for gridtie system limits.
 

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