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diy solar

Dr Strangetroll : or how I learned to stop arguing and be amused by the intransigence

Penicillin was discovered by an arbitrary observation .... What part of no one is going to study this because there is no money in it .... don't you understand.
I don't care if there is no study ..... I don't care if you don't think there is any value in this preventive measure.
Maybe someone else will .... and do a little research ... and prevent more covid spread. I totally understand that I will never be able to PROVE this prevented anything .... I also can't prove that using synthetic oil in my vehicles prevents problems ... but I do it anyway.

I am sure there is money to be made in nebulizers, just like there was money made in ozone generators. The fact that ozone is proven to be harmful is also something I care about. But provided thatyou have been warned of the potential dangers, I am fine with you using either or both, in the confines of your own home.

Of course if want to spray that in classrooms I would insist upon safety studies.
 
Penicillin was discovered by an arbitrary observation .... What part of no one is going to study this because there is no money in it .... don't you understand.
I don't care if there is no study ..... I don't care if you don't think there is any value in this preventive measure.
Maybe someone else will .... and do a little research ... and prevent more covid spread. I totally understand that I will never be able to PROVE this prevented anything .... I also can't prove that using synthetic oil in my vehicles prevents problems ... but I do it anyway.

I am sure there is money to be made in nebulizers, just like there was money made in ozone generators. The fact that ozone is proven to be harmful is also something I care about. But provided thatyou have been warned of the potential dangers, I am fine with you using either or both, in the confines of your own home.

Of course if want to spray that in classrooms I would insist upon safety studies. Unlike you, I do care.
 
What is our "secondary immune system?

Aren't you the healthcare provider?

It depends on how you number them as it has many layers.

The first layer of our immune system is our skin and mucous membranes. That is a barrier system. We could think of masks and handwashing as enhancements of that system.

Our second layer could be what you call our "innate" system. That is the immune system that is just a general surveillance type of system and it will jump on things that the immune system does not believe should be there (as an aside this is the cause of hayfever and common allergies). It will be the first to pounce on colds, covid etc. But it is not a specific response and can be easily overwhelmed by an effective pathogen regardless of your general immune health.

The next layer is our immune system that recognizes a specific threat and produces specific antibodies to address that threat. This is when our immune system really means business. So if you get Covid your body identifies the proteins that characterize that virus and makes antibodies that will kill it. This is our typical response when we get ill and it takes a few days for the body to recognize the threat and then manufacture the antibodies. This is why we get sick and then suddenly get better. Colds and influenza are not self-limiting. It is our immune system that kills them. (here in the case of Covid it gets complicated due to a possible immune over-response--our body starts killing itself in addition to the virus)

It is at this layer that vaccines come into play. Instead of getting infected with Covid, we inject something that looks like Covid, and triggers the same, or similar antibody immune response that we would have had if we were infected.

So why does the immune response fade? As discussed above we are talking about our bodies producing antibodies to kill or stop an infection. The body will maintain that level of antibodies as long as it perceives the threat. However, producing antibodies uses resources and energy and our bodies like to run as efficiently as possible. So when the body thinks the coast is clear it will stop antibody production. Antibodies drop and we can get reinfected.

Why is the length of antibody response longer for some diseases and vaccines than others? This gets more complicated than I have knowledge but there are many unknowns. The body makes the decision and we do not understand all the reasons why. It is a new frontier because if we could answer that we could make better vaccines. This is also why when the experts were asked how long the vaccine would last they always gave some variation of "We don't know but hopefully..............." BMcl and Bob B and such think of this as double talk and the vaccine being a failure but it is just stating the facts. The immune system will only do what it will do. The vaccine protects no one and is gone from the body in hours. Protection is all on our immune systems.

Okay, now to your question what did I mean by the secondary immune system. Well, sometimes everything discussed above is called the primary immune system and what I am about to discuss is called the secondary immune system or adaptive immune system.

If we are low on, or have no, specific antibodies left from a previous covid infection or the vaccine, what happens?
Well, all os not lost, hopefully. Our body also has Memory B Cells and T cells (lack of T cells is AIDS) that respond. The key here is these cells remember a previous bad guy even though the primary antibodies are gone. When I was in school our professor told us to think of them as like photos in the post office. No, we no longer have cops on every street corner but we are watching for this guy. We will be ready fast!
This system can provide some direct response when they see a virus the second time but the biggest thing they do is immediately begin the manufacture of the antibodies. We saw some evidence with the boosters that the antibody level jumped within three to four days rather than two weeks as with the first shot. This would be the secondary immune system firing. We also see that even though vaccinated people have greatly reduced antibody levels over time, they still do much better than the unvaccinated with regard to hospitalization and death. Why? The secondary immune system recognizes the spike protein and fires everything up.

So that is what I meant by relying on the secondary immune system. In the face of a highly contagious sometimes deadly virus, you would love to have your population brimming with antibodies and ready for battle. Hence the boosters, like troop reinforcements on the battlefield. But how long can we keep that up and are we better off retreating to the fort which would be our secondary immune system? That is the big debate right now.
Certainly, if as with the first booster, you think it could greatly extend the period antibodies are effective, then you would by all means booster. But when you find that doesn't work. What do you do?
Yup, that is why I know there is no such thing as a "secondary immune system". There is a secondary immune response, but not a "secondary immune system"

The rest is just far to wordy and kind of repeating what I had said in regards to the adaptive and innate immune systems.
 
I did say that but I also said I was willing to get behind that if everyone else that suffered from lifestyle related illness and disease would also forgo hospital treatment.
So you are now saying that you would seek hospital treatment because not everyone is following your healthy life style?
 
How about Fluvoxamine? .... quit doing the strawmen
For a while, I was mixing up fluvoxamine with fluoxetine.

Fluoxetine also showed some benefit and is generic Prozac. Prozac can make you feel like shit when you first take it but I think the risks would be manageable.

Fluvoxamine, however, is generic for Luvox and has a controversial history. One of the Columbine shooters was on Luvox, and that could be a coincidence, (after all you give mental illness drugs to people with mental illness "what could go wrong") but there were also other reports and problems. See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC167189/.

So I guess I can understand the NIH dragging its heels a little on this especially since the usage would be wide distribution to all infected.

The other things they are concerned about is that they don't know how it works (causing concerns about the underlying studies) and they have no good information on the appropriate dosage.

So I am cooling my jets on this one and waiting.
 
Look I strongly admire your adherence to a healthy lifestyle and it makes a huge, difference, especially regarding the quality of life but the reason I said shut up before about cancer is that you vastly underestimate the role of genetics and the exceptional effectiveness of some pathogens.

You bring to mind someone with airbags purposefully crashing into walls or a guy with body armor sprinting across a shooting range field.
How much time have you spent learning about epigenetics? The fear of genes is completely unfounded for the most part and believing that your destiny is laid out for you is so dis-empowering. You have choices if you choose to be educated.

Lifestyle and diet are the primary drivers of what genes are expressed. In some other thread or location in this one I used the example of Angelina Jolie chopping off her breasts after having a genetic test. If she had chosen to be fully educated instead of acting in fear, she would have known that just because you have a gene for a certain trait or condition, It does not mean it will ever be expressed.

"Your Genes load the gun, Diet and lifestyle pulls the trigger."

We have far more power over our destiny than most know or are willing to acknowledge. Acknowledging this fact makes us responsible for the mess we are in and lays it at our feet. I say this after suffering for years while "doing everything right" and relying on the sickcare system. Turns out that if you take responsibility for your own health you can fix almost everything, as long as your are not too far gone.
 
Yup, that is why I know there is no such thing as a "secondary immune system". There is a secondary immune response, but not a "secondary immune system"

The rest is just far to wordy and kind of repeating what I had said in regards to the adaptive and innate immune systems.
LOL good forbid you actually learn something. You never mentioned the adaptive immune system which is the same thing. You are a BS artist.
 
So you are now saying that you would seek hospital treatment because not everyone is following your healthy life style?
Im in canada and I pay huge taxes for it because Im paying for all the sick fat and nearly dead a$$ holes out there.

Yes, I would use it if Im sick. I already paid for access to it.

I am also in favor of vaccine mandates, if exercise, diet, and sleep were mandated as well.
 
LOL good forbid you actually learn something. You never mentioned the adaptive immune system which is the same thing. You are a BS artist.

You just have to read, It is right there (now in bold) You seem to be missing a lot.
exactly, yet medial and politicians and pushing everyone to get boosted.


What is our "secondary immune system?

The first defense is the innate immune system. This is the one that has failed in most of the sick and old population and is why they have to rely on the adaptive immune system and the belief that it needs to be kept on "high alert" with boosters instead of allowing circulating anitbodies wain and rely on memory t and b cells to do their job. The booster approach is relevant for the sick but if you have anything even close to resembling health you are fine with relying on memory t and b cells.



Omicron is fear porn and statements like this just encourage consumption of it.


You can not avoid infection! This is the whole point I am trying to make. If you get exposed, you are infected. If you are really healthy, your innate immune system kicks its ass and you will probably be asymptomatic, If not so healthy you get sick and the adaptive system learns, If you have already been exposed/vaccinated your adaptive immune system kicks in and you will either have an asymptomatic infection or you will develop mild symptoms. That is the only purpose of this vaccine. It is not to avoid infection. It is to try to make the infections as mild as possible!

External defenses are a poor replacement for a healthy immune system.
 
Im in canada and I pay huge taxes for it because Im paying for all the sick fat and nearly dead a$$ holes out there.

Yes, I would use it if Im sick. I already paid for access to it.

I am also in favor of vaccine mandates, if exercise, diet, and sleep were mandated as well.
It's ok to change your mind.
 
How much time have you spent learning about epigenetics? The fear of genes is completely unfounded for the most part and believing that your destiny is laid out for you is so dis-empowering. You have choices if you choose to be educated.

Lifestyle and diet are the primary drivers of what genes are expressed. In some other thread or location in this one I used the example of Angelina Jolie chopping off her breasts after having a genetic test. If she had chosen to be fully educated instead of acting in fear, she would have known that just because you have a gene for a certain trait or condition, It does not mean it will ever be expressed.

"Your Genes load the gun, Diet and lifestyle pulls the trigger."

We have far more power over our destiny than most know or are willing to acknowledge. Acknowledging this fact makes us responsible for the mess we are in and lays it at our feet. I say this after suffering for years while "doing everything right" and relying on the sickcare system. Turns out that if you take responsibility for your own health you can fix almost everything, as long as your are not too far gone.
Genes ultimately rule the day as we all die.

Wishful thinking Sir. Fear of death causes all kinds of strange responses including religion and in your case reliance in science fiction. You can control the margins. You can delay some things. But when you look statistically at a healthy lifestyle of diet and exercise it prolongs life by 2-3 years.

Quality of life and avoidance of chronic diseases are exceptionally better with a healthy lifestyle but after that---wishful thinking. So drink all the green shakes you want but you are as susceptible to Covid infection as your neighbor.

If you had actually worked in a hospital, instead of making fake teeth, and saw who cancer and strokes takes in their prime, you would not be so cocky (well you probably would). People like you get humbled in the most dramatic fashion. Stay tuned.
 
exactly, yet medial and politicians and pushing everyone to get boosted.


What is our "secondary immune system?

The first defense is the innate immune system. This is the one that has failed in most of the sick and old population and is why they have to rely on the adaptive immune system and the belief that it needs to be kept on "high alert" with boosters instead of allowing circulating anitbodies wain and rely on memory t and b cells to do their job. The booster approach is relevant for the sick but if you have anything even close to resembling health you are fine with relying on memory t and b cells.



Omicron is fear porn and statements like this just encourage consumption of it.


You can not avoid infection! This is the whole point I am trying to make. If you get exposed, you are infected. If you are really healthy, your innate immune system kicks its ass and you will probably be asymptomatic, If not so healthy you get sick and the adaptive system learns, If you have already been exposed/vaccinated your adaptive immune system kicks in and you will either have an asymptomatic infection or you will develop mild symptoms. That is the only purpose of this vaccine. It is not to avoid infection. It is to try to make the infections as mild as possible!

External defenses are a poor replacement for a healthy immune system.
Wow you sure got a lot of stuff wrong in here. I guess healthy lifestyle doesn't Trump bad education and genes.
 
How much time have you spent learning about epigenetics? The fear of genes is completely unfounded for the most part and believing that your destiny is laid out for you is so dis-empowering. You have choices if you choose to be educated.

Lifestyle and diet are the primary drivers of what genes are expressed. In some other thread or location in this one I used the example of Angelina Jolie chopping off her breasts after having a genetic test. If she had chosen to be fully educated instead of acting in fear, she would have known that just because you have a gene for a certain trait or condition, It does not mean it will ever be expressed.

"Your Genes load the gun, Diet and lifestyle pulls the trigger."

We have far more power over our destiny than most know or are willing to acknowledge. Acknowledging this fact makes us responsible for the mess we are in and lays it at our feet. I say this after suffering for years while "doing everything right" and relying on the sickcare system. Turns out that if you take responsibility for your own health you can fix almost everything, as long as your are not too far gone.
"We find that most diseases are dominated by genetic risk factors, while environmental influences prevail for disorders such as depressions, cancers, or dermatitis. Almost never we find that more than one type of mechanisms is involved in the pathogenesis of diseases."

 
Not changing my mind. I have been consistent since the start. Perhaps you are missing detail like Dhasper as well.
I didn't miss crap. I did not read your second post until I had posted my first. In fact, you had not even posted it yet.
 
List what is wrong.
By the way. Common parlance.

What is the difference between primary and secondary immune system?


Memory B and T-cells are antigen-specific and, on encountering the antigen again, can mount a more rapid and effective immune response, known as the secondary immune response.
...
Overview of Immune Responses.
Primary immune responseSecondary immune response
Responding cellsNaïve B and T cellsMemory B and T cells
 
"We find that most diseases are dominated by genetic risk factors,

Yes, because people keep pulling the triggers on those "risk factors"
while environmental influences prevail for disorders such as depressions, cancers, or dermatitis. Almost never we find that more than one type of mechanisms is involved in the pathogenesis of diseases."
Your environment includes the environment your cells exist in and you have control over that.

Your to old, what you "know" is dated and now you are getting angry and frusturated and lashing out. Dementia much?

I didn't miss crap. I did not read your second post until I had posted my first. In fact, you had not even posted it yet.
You cant even keep this straight. Post #555, you quoted my post in which I discussed the adaptive immune system then you said this:

LOL good forbid you actually learn something. You never mentioned the adaptive immune system which is the same thing. You are a BS artist.

Now more lashing out in frustration because you cant keep up:

A number of things but most of it relates into your concept of having achieved a godlike innate immune system. it is childish and laughable.


Time for the retirement home.....
 
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