Threads going Off Topic & Other Forum issues

[svetz]

I've seen a few members express concerns over threads that go off topic. What do you think and what would you like moderators to do about it if anything?

Update
Since starting this thread a number of issues have cropped up as to likes and dislikes. For example, we have members that:

• love the forums as it's a place to discuss a topic they love and they can learn from one another
• hate it when threads wander
• hate it when quotes are subquoted/altered
• can't stand it when members are rude
• get frustrated and quit forums because of dumb questions
• There's a concern some members won't participate if they feel it's a hostile environment.
• Dislike subject lines that lack clarity

So the question is what, if anything, should be done to minimize the impact of the negatives?

 

[svetz]

The topic concerns for me for a couple of reasons. The first is I like threads to stay on track. The second is any sort of censorship is far scarier to me than a wandering thread. If the consensus was censorship I'd resign and run screaming towards the hill. But perhaps there is another way? First, are all those off-topic posts bad? I don't think so. People introduce themselves and they express similar concerns. That is they're being social and making new friends. A part of that is some good-natured joking around. My two cents are that these forums are like a large social gathering and you can drift into rooms as you please. So, if you find a conversation boring you can go to another room. But what does the OP do? They have a question and are looking for help. But threads, threads are like a box of chocolates....

 

[Sojourner1]

Nothing wrong with a little drift, if OP didn't get the answer they were looking for it's their responsibility to steer it back on course as the "OP" unless they're enjoying the direction it's going.

 

[Rider]

I've seen a few members express concerns over threads that go off topic. What do you think and what would you like moderators to do about it if anything?

Going off-thread happens. The OP, if they don't want it to happen, can ask that the thread get back on track.

And yes, there are times when someone doesn't just slide off-topic, but hijacks the thread with their own new topic that really has no business being there. A simple PM (called Conversations in this forum) to the offender by the OP asking that the post be removed and reposted as a new thread. If that doesn't work, the OP can ask a moderator to move/delete the posts.

If I start a thread and it de-rails, I'm not upset. The off-center posts can still have great information, even if it's not exactly aligned with the OP. And isn't that why we are here? To gain information and learn?

 

[svetz]

There's also the ignore and report option. Ignore for those situations where someone wanders but isn't adding, isn't malicious, or just drives you nuts. Report for when it is obviously malicious.

 

[chrisblessing]

On the several other forums where I participate, the moderators often help steer the topic back to the concerns of the OP (they "moderate"). I would guess that the gulf between the experts and the beginners on this forum is quite large; it would be easy for a beginner to be too shy or too intimidated by others to respond to replies that are off-topic or even belittling. I believe this is why Will Prowse is so popular and highly regarded; he is approachable and humble, and seems more than aware that many, if not most, of his "followers" are new at this.

 

[eddie1261]

My dime is that if someone has a great zinger that just BEGS to be posted, they should be able to post it, let everybody share the laugh, and then get back to bidness. I do that a lot, but I am a wise guy by nature and in fact have done stand up comedy in the past. The people with the stick in their rectum and take life too serious are likely the only ones offended by anything not STRICTLY on topic. I have been called out on a couple of occasions when somebody with no sense of humor didn't get the dig. Plus written word has no voice inflection, no smirk, no look in the eye..... but for the most part the forums may get a short detour as a comic relief of 2-3 posts go by and then it's back to topic. I would hate to see this turn into a forum nazi controlled kind of place, and I'd leave if it did.

 

[CheezWiz]

Conversational drift is natural. We are people interacting in a social manner. This is not work where I have to watch every single little thing I say for fear of losing my job or getting sued. If it comes to the latter, then I would rather spend my time elsewhere. Members should be free to self-regulate threads in a polite manner by openly stating "Hey, were drifting here, lets take this side conversation to Chit-Chat.." etc. The most important thing they can do to control it after that is to not partake in the drift. IMO it should be up to the OP of a thread to really do the complaining if a thread drifts off and they do not like it. Many OP will have already gotten what they were looking for and moved on, so drift at that point is not necessarily degrading to the theme overall. So no-harm no-foul in that situation. IMO we do not need to become thread drift police and we do not need members reporting every instance of thread drift because they get annoyed that people are being people. Only if a drift becomes abusive should that be the case. Again, I think only reports of non-abusive drift by the OP should be considered.

 

[gnubie]

I would rather that we can have moments of levity than be forced into a straightjacket of conformity. Yes threads will drift, it happens. Someone will make an observation about an earlier post and that may cause a series of posts that are off topic to the opening post but equally valuable. So long as it is in line with the informative friendly place we all hope this forum remains what harm is there in that?

Before someone makes a complaint though they should look at their own posting habits to see if they are in fact guilty of the same thing they are complaining about.

 

[b.james]

I don't disagree with the above opinions .Most threads don't go off. Usually if they do on other forums it is because silly old farts with nothing better to do sit down and find a need to post on every thread and in so doing get their post numbers up and their ego along with it .

I think if the moderators keep an eye out for that then it will be an interesting and informative forum. Its a brilliant wide new field to explore for all and one destined to become hugely beneficial to mankind in the very near future.

 

[svetz]

...I think if the moderators keep an eye out...

I don't know that they can or should. After all, I'm a moderator and I meet all your labeling (e.g., ridiculous post count, sense of humor, farts).

Moderators mean well like most people, but I tend to think their role is to take action in extreme cases that are clearly inappropriate. Doing anything else means they become arbiters of thought and puts a bigger burden on them. I'm fine with the OP of a thread saying, "that's nice... but not exactly on track... what we're trying to solve here is XYZ". It's their thread let them do what they want.

Letting threads meander is also a form of creativity and brainstorming. What one person says as a joke can inspire someone else to come up with a great solution to the problem.

To empower moderators beyond all but the most sever cases sounds nice, but like citizens asking for more government control to keep them safer it just brings larger government and more oppression. I say don't go there. I'm sure you've heard of the psychological experiments where one group is empowered over another. With that sort of power it would only take a single moderator to single you out making it so you didn't want to participate here.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with my predilection for being lazy. But I'm a little worried about CheezWiz; he hasn't even had time to break into the triple digits on his posting yet; how is he supposed to find time to keep an eye out?

 

[eddie1261]

I'm sure you've heard of the psychological experiments where one group is empowered over another. With that sort of power it would only take a single moderator to single you out make it so you didn't want to participate here.

Like Orwell's Animal Farm where the pigs said "Everybody is equal. But the pigs are MORE equal."

Part of this is determining what derailing a post really means. If someone makes a remark like "My solar needs are small because it's just me and a dog in a small trailer" and then people take that as an invitation to start posting pictures of their dog, yes, that is wandering too far. But to reply with "I agree. This is the space I need to light, heat and cool" and include a photo of THEIR tiny trailer, that may not add to the discussion of the thread all that much, but for that 2 or 3 people who see that photo and say "Why did't I think of that?" and use an idea or two from the photo, that is a worthwhile post. The dog being in the photo is kind of subliminal and moot.

 

[b.james]

I don't know that they can or should. After all, I'm a moderator and I meet all your labeling (e.g., ridiculous post count, sense of humor, farts).

Moderators mean well like most people, but I tend to think their role is to take action in extreme cases that are clearly inappropriate. Doing anything else means they become arbiters of thought and puts a bigger burden on them. I'm fine with the OP of a thread saying, "that's nice... but not exactly on track... what we're trying to solve here is XYZ". It's their thread let them do what they want.

Letting threads meander is also a form of creativity and brainstorming. What one person says as a joke can inspire someone else to come up with a great solution to the problem.

To empower moderators beyond all but the most sever cases sounds nice, but like citizens asking for more government control to keep them safer it just brings larger government and more oppression. I say don't go there. I'm sure you've heard of the psychological experiments where one group is empowered over another. With that sort of power it would only take a single moderator to single you out making it so you didn't want to participate here.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with my predilection for being lazy. But I'm a little worried about CheezWiz; he hasn't even had time to break into the triple digits on his posting yet; how is he supposed to find time to keep an eye out?

The whole thing is a bit overdone isn't it . You know what I mean but you want to ramble.
Not much chance of common sense from you.

 

[CheezWiz]

The whole thing is a bit overdone isn't it . You know what I mean but you want to ramble.
Not much chance of common sense from you.

Not sure I care for this assessment of that post. I see nothing but sense in it.

 

[svetz]

Not sure I care for this assessment of that post. I see nothing but sense in it.

Easy to see sense in it if you agree with it.

There's an interesting book called Crucial Conversations; in it, one of the things expressed is that it's human nature to assign motives to actions. So, once the motive is that I want to ramble, am old, silly, etc.; then whatever I say is tainted. That is you can't come to a mutual understanding because the other person isn't really listening or interested in your view point. They've essentially flipped the bozo bit on you. That doesn't mean that I don't ramble or that I'm not pedantic; I'm sure I drive a lot of people crazy. I just hope they realize I do it with a good heart, mean no disrespect, and am trying to help regardless of how deep my many personal flaws are. But I hope to keep those out of the conversation, way to depressing.

This is actually a nice example. I've seen other threads too where I believe people were honestly trying to help, but the other person didn't get what they were saying or knew enough to see some flaw in the ointment and rather than rationally point it out and discuss it; replied in a hurtful way. I hate to see that as it discourages people from wanting to help. On the other hand, when you have a problem, it can often be extremely frustrating and it's very easy to take that frustration out on others. It also tends to take threads off topic. But I'd far rather accept people with all their foibles than censor them.

 

[Supervstech]

We moderators can easily slip into control freaks... one forum I moderate had a VERY controlling mod... he would ban members if they disagreed with him, or posted in a way he didn’t like... I think he snapped in his old age... but he was removed, and eventually banned.
My style has always been clear spam, and vulgar behavior.
That’s it.
I like to edit punctuation or spelling errors sometimes, but this forum doesn’t appear to allow much mod function besides deleting... and I rarely delete anything that isn’t spam.

 

[svetz]

Spent the night thinking about some of the rudeness/insults in this and other threads. No solutions, but it does make me want to stop being a moderator.

Rudeness/insults derails threads and makes the environment seem hostile. It's also pretty clear that there are those that are willing to be rude regardless of the consequences and there are those who are repeat offenders and those who I believe are genuinely sorry for a momentary frustration.
And what about those posts that aren't outright rude/insulting in context, but fool no one regarding the covert war they're engaged in?

It's sad to see this in something that Will created to help people. Is there a way to break the cycle?

As much as I hate the thought, perhaps it is a moderator's job to delete posts perceived to be rude or insulting as they come across them and issue a warning. Perhaps a 3 strikes policy and then ban them? That would also mean deleting or editing other member's posts to remove references to the rudeness. Let's hear what you all think.

Finally, one member wrote:

... how can you be a moderator ...[and] insult a member... [it] make this seem like a place where beginner questions are not welcome and you may be mocked for asking them...

Should moderators be held to higher standards? If we do, will we have any moderators left?

 

[SCClockDr]

Being a moderator means having to make tough calls at times. A strong relationship with the owner will lessen your stress. Not airing your frustrations in the wild would also frustrate your instigators by denying bomb damage assessment.
I'd PM Will and arrange a discussion of your concerns/recommendations.

 

[eddie1261]

make this seem like a place where beginner questions are not welcome and you may be mocked for asking them...

It isn't so much being mocked as a desire that before asking the questions people at least TRY and find the answer themselves. I know it's easier to ask "What size fuse do I need" than research it, but when the question has been answered 87 times already, and the poster obviously didn't bother to search for it before posting, it gets hard to sit back and not comment about it. It is the amp rating of your charge controller times 1.5, and it is addressed in an FAQ (I think). EVERYBODY here needs to buy Will's book, or at the very least go to his web page , which is essentially his book in web page form, and look for your answer.

Questions are asked here all the time that have no answer. "What kind of batteries should I buy?" How do we know? Unless you explain your specific use for solar, we can't answer that. My answer to that question will always be "lithium". And if your reply is "They are too expensive", then I can't help you. Work a part time job for a month and spend that side money on good batteries. I bought my lithium battery on a credit card and will pay for it over 4 months. But that's just how I did it. "He" may do it different. And that other "he" over there might have another opinion. That's the kind of thing that forums see all the time is people asking the forum to think and research for them. Because it's easier.

This world of solar is fascinating and can be complex. Do your reading. Invest that much time in learning about it. You never have to give knowledge back. I quit playing in bands years ago but I didn't have to give back my knowledge of music. Knowledge is power.

 

[Rider]

It isn't so much being mocked as a desire that before asking the questions people at least TRY and find the answer themselves. I know it's easier to ask "What size fuse do I need" than research it, but when the question has been answered 87 times already, and the poster obviously didn't bother to search for it before posting, it gets hard to sit back and not comment about it.

This is what I'm seeing too. But rather than commenting about it, I see the folks with knowledge are not jumping in and offering as much help as they had originally. It's obvious the people asking questions haven't looked at the forum at all, not aware the Learning section is there, looked at the multitudes of videos out there. So much easier just to say, "Tell me what to do." and let someone else do the work.

Many of us are more than willing to offer help and suggestions, but when the same questions are asked over and over and over again, it gets tedious.