Tigo 11.4K, EG4 18KPV and Sol-Ark 15K with Tigo Optimizer

[spedy]

I have received three grid-tied quotes from a vendor: one with a Tigo Inverter 11.4KW, an EG4 18KW, and a Sol-Ark 15KW. The EG4 quote is $6K higher than the Tigo, and the Sol-Ark is $8.4K higher than the Tigo.

I am not planning to connect a battery system anytime soon as I have a gas generator backup. The total size is an 11.9KW DC system, and my annual consumption is around 11.8MW. All systems have Tigo optimizers with each panel.

Which one should I pick? Please advise.

TIA

Edit: Changed the 11.8KW to 11.8MW. Typo!!

 

[LydMekk]

Why install "optimizers"? They only add to the cost. You can normally buy another panel for the cost of an "optimizer".
Just curious.
And, if this is on a roof, imagine crawling up there to fix or replace failed electronic modules.
They will fail acc. to post.

 

[Oldphile]

Why install "optimizers"? They only add to the cost. You can normally buy another panel for the cost of an "optimizer".
Just curious.
And, if this is on a roof, imagine crawling up there to fix or replace failed electronic modules.
They will fail acc. to post.

Most jurisdictions in the US require panel level RSD (rapid shutdown). Without shading issues it might be better to use RSD modules that don't optimize, as there's no power conversion going on.

 

[spedy]

Most jurisdictions in the US require panel level RSD (rapid shutdown). Without shading issues it might be better to use RSD modules that don't optimize, as there's no power conversion going on.

That is correct. They are charging an extra $25 for RSD to Optimizer. Their per panel plus installation cost is about $400, so I would probably gain an extra panel for installation.

The reason I am adding the Optimizer is that it provides panel-level monitoring and some optimization for shading, dust on the panels, and long-term efficiency loss due to the panels aging at different rates.

 

[spedy]

Why install "optimizers"? They only add to the cost. You can normally buy another panel for the cost of an "optimizer".
Just curious.
And, if this is on a roof, imagine crawling up there to fix or replace failed electronic modules.
They will fail acc. to post.

I wish, I could get away from the RSD requirement. I was told the string level RSDs are also not supported in USA (like Fronius's Rapid Shutdown Box-Duo)

 

[jjww]

A good deal At only 25 extra per panel , I would probably take that. As far as inverters, the TIGO is a high volt battery- More expensive batteries, harder to add on, potentially locked into proprietary formats.
Optimisers will do nothing for dust, aging, and (for me anyways) almost unnoticeable gains due to shading early or late in the day. An investment in a good chainsaw will do wonders for your solar gain.

 

[spedy]

A good deal At only 25 extra per panel , I would probably take that. As far as inverters, the TIGO is a high volt battery- More expensive batteries, harder to add on, potentially locked into proprietary formats.
Optimisers will do nothing for dust, aging, and (for me anyways) almost unnoticeable gains due to shading early or late in the day. An investment in a good chainsaw will do wonders for your solar gain.

Thanks, LOL the chainsaw comment!

 

[Quattrohead]

Optimizers are not all they are jazzed up to be, so if you can avoid using them and just use RSD instead I would.

 

[Oldphile]

Optimizers are not all they are jazzed up to be, so if you can avoid using them and just use RSD instead I would.

I agree. My neighbor has an 8KW system with optimizers. We (him and I) have an 8.14KW system without optimizers. I see little if any difference in production.

 

[spedy]

Thanks for your inputs. I will drop the optimization from my equation and just focus on RSD and monitoring module. TS4-A-S

 

[spedy]

I just saw a video that provides a good review of solar optimizers. It seems to show that overall production in a day could improve by 10% based on certain conditions with optimizers.

The product was tested with and without solar optimizers. The test also shows that, in some cases, the output of non-optimizer panels is better than that of optimizer panels!

Solar production with and without solar Optimizers!

 

[Oldphile]

I compared my 2 systems over the last four months, one with optimizers and one without. The 8.14KW system without optimizers outperformed the 8KW system every month. The 8.14KW system has morning shade conditions. The 8KW system has late afternoon shade conditions. Winter months favor the 8.14KW system because the roof sheds snow easier.

 

[spedy]

I compared my 2 systems over the last four months, one with optimizers and one without. The 8.14KW system without optimizers outperformed the 8KW system every month. The 8.14KW system has morning shade conditions. The 8KW system has late afternoon shade conditions. Winter months favor the 8.14KW system because the roof sheds snow easier.View attachment 240860

The one that doesn't have the optimizers, do you have individual level monitoring like (Tigo TS4-A-S) or just RSD, which ones (Tigo or AP Smart or none)?

 

[glandpuck]

"my annual consumption is around 11.8KW".

Why install any solar if you use so little electricity?

If you are not going to install batteries, then why waste money on the 18k PV or the Sol-Ark 15K. You can install a generator with the transfer switch directly into your main panel or sub-panel.

Then you can save thousands by installing a grid tied string inverter like an SMA and can probably find one of these used in the marketplace from persons who have decided to upgrade to hybrid system and batteries.

That aside, choose the Sol-Ark. Simply put, it works, supports the widest variety of batteries and has very good human support with the most bug free software running it.

 

[spedy]

"my annual consumption is around 11.8KW".

Why install any solar if you use so little electricity?

If you are not going to install batteries, then why waste money on the 18k PV or the Sol-Ark 15K. You can install a generator with the transfer switch directly into your main panel or sub-panel.

Then you can save thousands by installing a grid tied string inverter like an SMA and can probably find one of these used in the marketplace from persons who have decided to upgrade to hybrid system and batteries.

That aside, choose the Sol-Ark. Simply put, it works, supports the widest variety of batteries and has very good human support with the most bug free software running it.

My bad!!. I have fixed it, it is 11.8MW.

 

[glandpuck]

My bad!!. I have fixed it, it is 11.8MW.

So you are saying annually you use about 11,800 watts of power.

So average use is about 33 kW a day. Based on an average of 3 good hours of sun (don't know where you live) that's 11 kW per hour. Your system size will do that and probably way more. An 8.4 kW system in SoCal can do 50-54 kW a day April through July.

 

[Oldphile]

The one that doesn't have the optimizers, do you have individual level monitoring like (Tigo TS4-A-S) or just RSD, which ones (Tigo or AP Smart or none)?

The one without optimizers does not have panel level monitoring. The results I posted were from the Sol-Ark.

 

[spedy]

The one without optimizers does not have panel level monitoring. The results I posted were from the Sol-Ark.

As you don't have panel level monitoring, how would you know if a panel failed/has an issue and how will you identify which one is failing? For basic RSD, do you still need CCA/TAP for this setup?

 

[spedy]

So you are saying annually you use about 11,800 watts of power.

So average use is about 33 kW a day. Based on an average of 3 good hours of sun (don't know where you live) that's 11 kW per hour. Your system size will do that and probably way more. An 8.4 kW system in SoCal can do 50-54 kW a day April through July.

I live in Philadelphia Suburbs.

 

[Oldphile]

As you don't have panel level monitoring, how would you know if a panel failed/has an issue and how will you identify which one is failing? For basic RSD, do you still need CCA/TAP for this setup?

That TIGO module works with the RSS TX, not CCA/TAP. Outside of the US, where RSD isn't required, it's typical to not have panel monitoring.

 

[themizz]

As you don't have panel level monitoring, how would you know if a panel failed/has an issue and how will you identify which one is failing? For basic RSD, do you still need CCA/TAP for this setup?

If you are talking about the TS4-A-S, a CCA/TAP is the correct equipment. If you don't have a CCA/TAP you wouldn't be able to view the monitoring, so there is no point in getting the A-S, you can just get the A-F and can just use an RSS transmitter.

Why aren't they quoting Enphase or Solar Edge? Did you request the other inverters?

 

[spedy]

If you are talking about the TS4-A-S, a CCA/TAP is the correct equipment. If you don't have a CCA/TAP you wouldn't be able to view the monitoring, so there is no point in getting the A-S, you can just get the A-F and can just use an RSS transmitter.

Why aren't they quoting Enphase or Solar Edge? Did you request the other inverters?




View attachment 244891

I was not interested in either of those systems. Enphase micro Inverter as well as solaredge.

 

[DIYrich]

Growatt an option? One of their 400v battery grid tied inverters would be ideal since you do not plan on adding battery.

 

[spedy]

Growatt an option? One of their 400v battery grid tied inverters would be ideal since you do not plan on adding battery.

I have decided to go with an alternative to Growatt, the Tigo Inverter, which has a voltage range of 360V-550V. The advantage of the Tigo inverter is that it has the CCA inside the inverter, and the TAP is included with the product at no additional charge. I know the part is not that expensive, but the installer was also giving me a labor discount. So, I am going with the Tigo inverter and Tigo monitoring. Since both are Tigo products, it will be easier to get support as well.

 

[DIYrich]

I have decided to go with an alternative to Growatt, the Tigo Inverter, which has a voltage range of 360V-550V. The advantage of the Tigo inverter is that it has the CCA inside the inverter, and the TAP is included with the product at no additional charge. I know the part is not that expensive, but the installer was also giving me a labor discount. So, I am going with the Tigo inverter and Tigo monitoring. Since both are Tigo products, it will be easier to get support as well.

I was initially intrigued by Tigo until I started reading about their reliability, or lack thereof. Ground mount would be ok. On the roof, you really do want to reduce the likelihood of needing someone to go up there to fix something. Even if there is a good warranty, the warranty is only as good as the installer who will do the work.