To connect a petrol inverter generator to a 1000w Renogy inverter so that it can charge the battery and run my apple fridge...

[fran apple lady]

Hello everyone,

I am hoping that someone might be able to help me learn what cable I need to buy and if what I think I can do is actually safe and a thing.
I have a Briggs and Stratton petrol inverter generator P2400
I have a Renogy 1000w sine wave inverter that is running with x 3 100w solar panels and an MPPT? I think charge controller.
The sine wave inverter has an AC input that looks like a plug in socket that you get on a kettle or an X box type of device (the red and black battery input is on the other end of it)
And Renogy blurb seems to be saying that this is an AC input that allows users to plug in direct AC to go through the inverter on low sun days and power up the battery and the fridge simultaneously.
What they do not do is provide a cable to do this, or say what size or type of cable I need to buy in order to do this.
I have spent three hours this morning searching the internet for AC input cables and only found links to single black and red cables like the sort that go from the inverter to the battery.
I have also looked all over the Renogy blog and found nothing.
So I thought I would try and find some experts who know more than I know, which is a pretty low bar.

I hope you can help me, thank you for reading. Fran

 

[fran apple lady]

I only use the solar set up to power a fridge to store fresh pressed apple juice, but on cloudy days I need a way of topping up the battery and running the fridge at the same time and thought if I can hook the generator up to the inverter this would be a good solve. Otherwise I might need to buy more panels that I can't really afford at the moment.

 

[fran apple lady]

If it helps this is my generator and this is the blue 1000w inverter I have, the AC input is there on the left. Surely it isn't just a case of get a kettle plug and go from the 240v output of the generator and into the inverter with it. I am scared to try that because it seems dangerously easy to bugger everything up if I am wrong. I just read the thread previous about this sort of thing and it seems that there is a lot of issue over doing this with regard to it working.

 

[mikefitz]

More panels will work out cheaper than fuel over time.
As you assumed the AC Input to the inverter is a ' kettle' socket, IEC C14 male. Assuming your generator has the UK type 3 pin socket that takes a standard 13A plug you can get a ready made up cable or obtain the plugs and sockets and make up your own cable.
Female plug to connect to the inverter is IEC C13,

Ready made, example, select one with the higher current rating,

IEC Extension Cables - Cable Warehouse

IEC C13 / C14 Kettle Extension Leads in a range of lengths and colours. Up to 25% discount available, buy online at Cable Warehouse.

www.cablewarehouse.co.uk

An alternative would be to use the generator to power a 230v to 12v battery charger and directly charge the battery, this could be a more efficient use of the generator.
By powering the fridge via the generator and inverter, for periods of time, when the fridge is 'off' , you will be wasting fuel.

It would be useful to have details of the rest of your system, battery type and Ah capacity, solar controller model.

A 1000 watt inverter may not be powerful enough to reliably start a AC powered fridge, but it seems you have a working system.

One issue of using a low cost inverter like the Renogy, is that it takes standby power. So as well as consuming power to drive the fridge it needs an 'overhead' of 300 watt hours a day. Thus it needs one of your 100 watt panels just to keep the inverter running.

There are alternative setups that would be more efficient but with a limited budget I guess you will have to do the best you can with existing equipment.

Mike

 

[fran apple lady]

More panels will work out cheaper than fuel over time.
As you assumed the AC Input to the inverter is a ' kettle' socket, IEC C14 male. Assuming your generator has the UK type 3 pin socket that takes a standard 13A plug you can get a ready made up cable or obtain the plugs and sockets and make up your own cable.
Female plug to connect to the inverter is IEC C13,

Ready made, example, select one with the higher current rating,

IEC Extension Cables - Cable Warehouse

IEC C13 / C14 Kettle Extension Leads in a range of lengths and colours. Up to 25% discount available, buy online at Cable Warehouse.

www.cablewarehouse.co.uk

Thank you so much for helping me to find what I need, so I am completely safe to do this and I won't blow anything up by doing it?
You are right! and I am definitely going to buy a couple more of the same sort of panels as soon as I can afford it (current emergency is fencing to keep ewes out of newly planted orchard). Just thought this might be a good temporary solution whilst I save up.

Thank you for replying, I have spent most of this morning trying to find this out online and found nothing at all, not even on Renogy's own site. You have turned around my day

 

[fran apple lady]

More panels will work out cheaper than fuel over time.
As you assumed the AC Input to the inverter is a ' kettle' socket, IEC C14 male. Assuming your generator has the UK type 3 pin socket that takes a standard 13A plug you can get a ready made up cable or obtain the plugs and sockets and make up your own cable.
Female plug to connect to the inverter is IEC C13,

Ready made, example, select one with the higher current rating,

IEC Extension Cables - Cable Warehouse

IEC C13 / C14 Kettle Extension Leads in a range of lengths and colours. Up to 25% discount available, buy online at Cable Warehouse.

www.cablewarehouse.co.uk

An alternative would be to use the generator to power a 230v to 12v battery charger and directly charge the battery, this could be a more efficient use of the generator.
It would be useful to have details of the rest of your system, battery type and Ah capacity, solar controller model

I have a 230v to 12v battery charger stashed for Lifepo4 batteries. I had thought of using it to charge the battery but would that mean I had to unplug the fridge from the inverter whilst I do it? That was why I was wondering about going direct through the inverter and running fridge and charging battery at the same time.

My system is
300W solar panels
MPPT charge controller with little BT monitor device attached
100ah lifepo4 battery
Old well insulated freezer converted with a plug in temp control thermometer and probe into being a well insulated fridge.

That's it. I am not very smart with electrics so I tried to keep it really simple and sort of fool proof.

 

[fran apple lady]

By higher current rating on the power lead did you mean 10amp? Please excuse my ignorance, I just want to be certain that I am being safe and buying the correct thing. It's very kind of you to help me, I appreciate it.

 

[fran apple lady]

More panels will work out cheaper than fuel over time.
As you assumed the AC Input to the inverter is a ' kettle' socket, IEC C14 male. Assuming your generator has the UK type 3 pin socket that takes a standard 13A plug you can get a ready made up cable or obtain the plugs and sockets and make up your own cable.
Female plug to connect to the inverter is IEC C13,

Ready made, example, select one with the higher current rating,

IEC Extension Cables - Cable Warehouse

IEC C13 / C14 Kettle Extension Leads in a range of lengths and colours. Up to 25% discount available, buy online at Cable Warehouse.

www.cablewarehouse.co.uk

An alternative would be to use the generator to power a 230v to 12v battery charger and directly charge the battery, this could be a more efficient use of the generator.
By powering the fridge via the generator and inverter, for periods of time, when the fridge is 'off' , you will be wasting fuel.

It would be useful to have details of the rest of your system, battery type and Ah capacity, solar controller model.

A 1000 watt inverter may not be powerful enough to reliably start a AC powered fridge, but it seems you have a working system.

One issue of using a low cost inverter like the Renogy, is that it takes standby power. So as well as consuming power to drive the fridge it needs an 'overhead' of 300 watt hours a day. Thus it needs one of your 100 watt panels just to keep the inverter running.

There are alternative setups that would be more efficient but with a limited budget I guess you will have to do the best you can with existing equipment.

Mike

My 'fridge' is a 50 litre mini chest freezer that I turned into a fridge by using a plug in brewers thermometer that controls temp regulation and power switching on via a probe running into the 'fridge' it stays off longer by being freezer standard insulated. But what you said about the inverter using a whole panel just to stay on was a bit of a surprise! Wow, definitely see why I need to get more panels. This is what I used to make insulated freezer into fridge, if anyone is interested.

 

[mikefitz]

The 10 amp lead would be the better choice as you may need a long cable.

You can have a battery charger connected all the time, it won't cause issues.
If I understand correctly, whilst the generator is running you want to use one AC output to power a battery charger to charge your batteries, this is the most efficient use of the generator. And at the same time connect the second output of the generator to the 'pass tnrough' of the inverter. This is acceptable, but the fridge will be cycling under control of the thermostat, so for some of the time the inverter won't be using the pass through power.

You conversion of a freezer is an excellent technique. Since this will result in a lower run time, it more eficient to use the generator for battery charging. This is subject to to having a charger with adequate charge current, do you have charger details?

Subject to there being no damage to the apple juice could you lower the temperature in the fridge whilst under generator power, and in effect store 'cold energy'.

Am i correct in assuming you have no mains AC power at your location?

 

[fran apple lady]

You can have a battery charger connected all the time, it won't cause issues.
If I understand correctly, whilst the generator is running you want to use one AC output to power a battery charger to charge your batteries, this is the most efficient use of the generator. And at the same time connect the second output of the generator to the 'pass tnrough' of the inverter. This is acceptable, but the fridge will be cycling under control of the thermostat, so for some of the time the inverter won't be using the pass through power.

Hi Mike,

No not together, I was going to do one or the other. Following your advice I have bought a cable for emergency charging via the inverter and if I understand you correctly, I could have the battery charger running with everything solar and fridge still connected and working, inverter included, which would mean the fridge was fine anyway.

I think I am going to do what you suggested and set up the battery charger to give the battery a boost as you said it was way more efficient than using the cable through the inverter and the frankenfridge will still keep chugging along. I will keep the cable for emergency use. The level of insulation on the fridge (as it was a mini freezer and is top opening) ought to be fine for short periods of no power, it was why I did what I did with the thermal regulating device. It is AC but very low power 50L is quite little and I keep it at 3 degrees centigrade, the thermal regulator kicks in if it senses anything above that and switches off once it is at range.

I am looking into panels right now, what you said makes a lot of sense and I think will just have to suck up the cost and get it done. Maybe get a bit less fencing or recycle some of our posts. It's really great to receive such straightforward none jargon advice that I can understand, so thank you for your time.

 

[fran apple lady]

The 10 amp lead would be the better choice as you may need a long cable.

You can have a battery charger connected all the time, it won't cause issues.
If I understand correctly, whilst the generator is running you want to use one AC output to power a battery charger to charge your batteries, this is the most efficient use of the generator. And at the same time connect the second output of the generator to the 'pass tnrough' of the inverter. This is acceptable, but the fridge will be cycling under control of the thermostat, so for some of the time the inverter won't be using the pass through power.

You conversion of a freezer is an excellent technique. Since this will result in a lower run time, it more eficient to use the generator for battery charging. This is subject to to having a charger with adequate charge current, do you have charger details?

Jolly good news, because that is the one that I ordered. 10amp @ 10 metres
Hang on, I will have a look for my charger details...and post them.

 

[fran apple lady]

The 10 amp lead would be the better choice as you may need a long cable.

You can have a battery charger connected all the time, it won't cause issues.
If I understand correctly, whilst the generator is running you want to use one AC output to power a battery charger to charge your batteries, this is the most efficient use of the generator. And at the same time connect the second output of the generator to the 'pass tnrough' of the inverter. This is acceptable, but the fridge will be cycling under control of the thermostat, so for some of the time the inverter won't be using the pass through power.

You conversion of a freezer is an excellent technique. Since this will result in a lower run time, it more eficient to use the generator for battery charging. This is subject to to having a charger with adequate charge current, do you have charger details?

Ardroit 14.6V 30A LifePO4 Battery Charger Smart Charger Deep Cycle Rechargeable Batteries Trickle Charger for 12V LiFePO4 Lithium-Iron Deep Cycle Rechargeable Batteries & Battery Desulfator​

 

[fran apple lady]

Gosh that came out enormous, think I pressed the wrong button, sorry about that. But at least you can see it. Is this going to do the job do you think?

 

[fran apple lady]

The 10 amp lead would be the better choice as you may need a long cable.

You can have a battery charger connected all the time, it won't cause issues.
If I understand correctly, whilst the generator is running you want to use one AC output to power a battery charger to charge your batteries, this is the most efficient use of the generator. And at the same time connect the second output of the generator to the 'pass tnrough' of the inverter. This is acceptable, but the fridge will be cycling under control of the thermostat, so for some of the time the inverter won't be using the pass through power.

You conversion of a freezer is an excellent technique. Since this will result in a lower run time, it more eficient to use the generator for battery charging. This is subject to to having a charger with adequate charge current, do you have charger details?

Subject to there being no damage to the apple juice could you lower the temperature in the fridge whilst under generator power, and in effect store 'cold energy'.

Am i correct in assuming you have no mains AC power at your location?

No AC power I am completely off grid. Storing cold energy is a really good idea and definitely easy to do, if the juice gets a little frosty that is OK, it just has to be kept from fermenting as what goes into the 50 litre fridge is for juice. I am going to do that, it's a great idea.