Tracer 4215BN & Victron Smart LiFePO

[KroSha]

Hello everyone. First post!

Here’s my setup;
4 x 145W panels in parallel pairs.
Tracer 4215BN with the MT50 display.
Victron BMS 12/200.
2x 12v 100 Ah Victron Smart Lithium batteries.
Victron BMV712 monitor.

Tracer User settings:
Temp Co-eff : 0 & temp monitor unplugged
rated voltage : Auto
Over voltage disconnect 16v
charge Limit 14.1v
over voltage reconnect 14.2v
equal charge 14.1v
boost charge 14.1v
float charge 13.6v
boost rec 13.2v
low voltage rec 12.6v
undervoltage rec 12.2v
undervoltage warn 12.0v
low voltage disc 11.1v
discharge limit 10.6v
equal time 0
boost time 120

I’ve chosen that BMS because it allows me to charge the batteries using the alternator in my narrowboat when we move it.

The issue I’m having is that the Tracer isn’t actually charging up the batteries. Ok, it’s winter here and the sun isn’t great, but I should be getting something. I found the setting to plug in to the Tracer in the User profile here in the forum, but something isn’t right. The Tracer won’t raise the voltage above 13.4 (the current battery voltage) and it permanently thinks the batteries are at 100% SOC.

I've tried turning it off and on again.

Do I need to get a new MPPT that actually understands LiFePO?

 

[svetz]

Welcome to the forums!

I'm not familiar with the Tracer MPPT, but check out this thread to see if it helps you out: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/r...er-tracer-4215bn-with-lifepo4-batteries.7792/

 

[KroSha]

Thanks for the link. I did read that one and the linked article in there was one of my main sources for getting the settings.

 

[svetz]

Well darn, was hoping that would help. I'll move this thread to the general section...that will hopefully catch the eyes of someone familiar with the Tracer.

 

[KroSha]

Thanks for your help. As I said, the issue isn’t the settings, per se. The Tracer isn’t behaving as I’d expect.

 

[mikefitz]

13.4 volts on the battery is about 90% charge. The boost reconnect at 13.2 will not allow enter of re boost, (charge) until the battery volts fall below this value.

Try loading the battery or adjusting the boost reconnect value.

Boost time at 120 seems too long (this is absorption time where the controller holds the volts at CV, 14.1 with your settings), for long battery life, from Victron, absorption time: 2 hours for a 100% charge, or a few minutes for a 98% charge.
The float voltage is higher that Victron recommend.

Mike

 

[KroSha]

Thanks for the reply. I’ve adjusted the float to the recommended value in the manual of 13.5V and the boost time to 30 minutes.

 

[jesfl]

KroSha and Mike,

I am a frustrated newbie. I also have the EPEVER Tracer 4215BN. as described in a separate post, my system shut down (after working perfectly for 4+ months). Now no battery charging. Not know whether it is the 40 amp Tracer or my incorrect LiFePO4 settings that caused the BMS in batteries to go into "protect" mode and stop all charging? Folks here have suggested both possibilities. I can get no info to help with setting the Tracer from the batteries U.S. seller.

Will you please clarify your information above?

1) If 13.4 volts is about 90% charge on a typical LiFePO4 battery, what voltage is 100% charge? I cannot get an answer from the U.S. seller for my batteries.

2) What does "Try loading the battery . . . " mean? Newbie here, I don't understand.

3) Is KroSha's new boost time of 30 minutes good, from your knowledge? More or less?

The Will Prowse recommendations are:
-- absorption (Tracer boost) of 14.5 volts (for longer battery life),
-- 13.6 volts for float.

I have also read "for longer life" recommendations of 14.2 volts for absorption/boost and 13.4 volts for float.

I have read so many different numbers, I am concluding it is mostly voodoo!

Next, looking for the Victron setting recommendations for solar controllers.

Any small scrap of additional information helps.

Thanks.

Jim S.

 

[mikefitz]

what voltage is 100% charge?

at rest, no charge, no load, around 13.5 volts

Try loading the battery

Add an electrical load on the battery to pull the volts and capacity to a lower value, say an inverter powering a heater.

boost time of 30 minutes good, from your knowledge? More or less?

Its generally accepted that holding the battery at high voltage for long periods reduces battery life. Victrom themselves admit that once the target charge voltage is reached, them absorbing at constant volts for hours will only increase the charge capacity by a few %

"for longer life" recommendations of 14.2 volts for absorption/boost and 13.4 volts for float.

Seems suitable, many suggest even 13.8 or 14 volts. Any voltage over 13.4 volts will charge the battery (at a lower rate). 3.4 volts will charge to over 80 %.

The' float voltage' concept with lead acid batteries is to keep the battery fully charged, with lithium it should be regarded as a technique for 'solar assist' powering loads when solar energy is available and the battery fully charged.

Evidence suggests there are a many more problems with setting up and using Epever/Tracer controllers than there are with Victron products.

Mike

 

[jesfl]

Thank you so much. Very helpful!

And, yes, I get that Victron & Battle Born are top quality and less problematic. But buying their products meant no solar & no RV boondocking for another 2-3 years. By then, the odds are higher I'll be dead, literally. Now 75, tight retiree budget. So I gambled and everything worked perfectly for 4+ months. Then nothing. Now in diagnosis, i.e., process of elimination phase. Every little bit of knowledge helps.

Your knowledge is very much appreciated.

One afterthought: I badgered the U.S. battery distributor about how to "reset" the BMS in the batteries (suggested here as a possible solution). I finally got a response saying: "charge the batteries and the BMS will reset." (I am skeptical.) Which is why I asked about full charge. Does that make any sense to you?

 

[jesfl]

Mike,

You were immensely helpful earlier today. This is the third day in a row I've been trying to figure out EPEVER Tracer 4215BN settings for LiFePO4 batteries. Again, I've spent much of the day searching and reading about charge controller settings. My eyes often glaze over.

I finally did this (below) to organize myself and for quick reference:

View attachment 42551

Because I cannot find any clear answers elsewhere so far, I will appreciate any of your thoughts about:

(1) Why is Battle Born's "Over Current Voltage" number so much lower than other's I've seen?
(2) What is the advantage/disadvantage of setting the "Charging Limit Voltage" and "Over Voltage Reconnect Voltage" as low as 14.1V & 14.2V?
(3) Battle Born's #'s for "Low Voltage Reconnect Voltage," and other #'s from 10V to 11.5V seem low compared to other listings? Is there any advantage to having them at the low Battle Born levels, or is it safer to have those set a little higher?

In general, is it just slower charging if lower numbers are used for Boost/Absorption and Float?

Any tidbit helps.

Thank you in advance.

Jim S.

 

[mikefitz]

: "charge the batteries and the BMS will reset." (I am skeptical.) Which is why I asked about full charge. Does that make any sense to you?

if the battery volts or current exceeds the set limits in the bms it will cut off charge and/or discharge path . It will reset when conditions are in the safe region. For example if the battery was discharged too low, the low voltage protect in the BMS will shut down the battery discharge path. Applying a charge will raise the voltage above the BMS reset value and the battery will again provide output.

Because I cannot find any clear answers elsewhere so far, I will appreciate any of your thoughts about:

May I suggest you are confusing settings for BMS protection values used in the batteries with settings on the charger.
Many of the settings for the Epever relate to its load output settings, these have nothing to do with the battery or charging. Where the Epever is used for things like remote lighting connected to its load outputs, you can program protection. For example when the battery volts fall below 'low voltage disconnect voltage', default value 11.1, the Epever will disconnect any load on the load outputs from the battery.
The chart from the Epever instructions is shown below. All the parameters relating to battery charging are indicated in green, those for the load outputs on the Epever are shown in red.

In general, is it just slower charging if lower numbers are used for Boost/Absorption and Float?

In general yes. However over much of the capacity range in many practical situations it wont make much difference provided reasonable voltages are used.

Mike

 

[jesfl]

Mike,

Thank you once again. You are a hero!

Yes, I was confusing ". . . BMS protection values used in the batteries with settings on the charger" because I never read or thought about those differences. The red and green arrows are helpful for my very basic comprehension level. I have read a lot of online "stuff" and nowhere has that distinction been made. And, when you have no basis of knowledge like me, I can't make any assumptions whatsoever.

Still, I'm just trying to fill in all the "user settings" blanks required in the EPEVER Tracer 4215BN controller setup for LiFePO4 . . . "safe" numbers that will get my batteries charging again. I can't leave any of the blanks empty. And, I'm still guessing on most because there are so many variables and differing opinions,

FYI, I've decided to go with the numbers you discussed above with member "KroSha." They are:



I genuinely appreciate everything everyone here at diysolarforum.com has done to help me diagnose and understand.

Jim S.

 

[RStone13]

Hello everyone. First post!

Here’s my setup;
4 x 145W panels in parallel pairs.
Tracer 4215BN with the MT50 display.
Victron BMS 12/200.
2x 12v 100 Ah Victron Smart Lithium batteries.
Victron BMV712 monitor.

Tracer User settings:
Temp Co-eff : 0 & temp monitor unplugged
rated voltage : Auto
Over voltage disconnect 16v
charge Limit 14.1v
over voltage reconnect 14.2v
equal charge 14.1v
boost charge 14.1v
float charge 13.6v
boost rec 13.2v
low voltage rec 12.6v
undervoltage rec 12.2v
undervoltage warn 12.0v
low voltage disc 11.1v
discharge limit 10.6v
equal time 0
boost time 120

I’ve chosen that BMS because it allows me to charge the batteries using the alternator in my narrowboat when we move it.

The issue I’m having is that the Tracer isn’t actually charging up the batteries. Ok, it’s winter here and the sun isn’t great, but I should be getting something. I found the setting to plug in to the Tracer in the User profile here in the forum, but something isn’t right. The Tracer won’t raise the voltage above 13.4 (the current battery voltage) and it permanently thinks the batteries are at 100% SOC.

I've tried turning it off and on again.

Do I need to get a new MPPT that actually understands LiFePO?

Your boost rec is 13.2. Will not go into boost mode (charge battery) until battery drops below13.2. Try these, boost 14.1, float 14.0, boost rec 12.5

 

[jesfl]

Thank you. I just changed the settings to the numbers you suggested. No difference.

For 4 days, I have been charging my lithium batteries with a 120V charger (not the Tracer SCC) with the batteries completely disconnected because the EPEVER Tracer would not charge them. (I had bad/wrong settings.) The best battery's voltage got to 13.37 volts using my multimeter.

After reconnecting one (only) of the batteries, turning the system on, and changing the settings, the Tracer MT50 meter alarmed and showed the battery voltage as 9.1V first, then 9.7V, and settled at 10.4V.

That's a huge difference from the multimeter reading of 13.37V? How the h--- does that happen?)

I turned the solar panels on to silence the alarm. But, the EPEVER Tracer went directly into "full battery" mode (PV and battery lights flashing) and, as before when in "full mode," there is only 1-2 amps going into the battery from the PV and SCC according to the Tracer MT50 meter. Purposely, no other loads. Everything is off except the 12V propane alarm, the fridge (for the controller, running on propane), the Tracer MT50 meter, and my inside "AiLi" voltage meter. Practically zero drain.

I'm back to accepting it is a BMS problem in the batteries. I can get no help from the U.S. distributor except "charge until full and the BMS will reset." The batteries will not charge above a 13.37V (best battery) to 13.28 V (worst battery). Yesterday, charging all day, there was 0.01 volt increase in each, so charging has essentially stopped completely (from the batteries' own 120V charger).

And, I'm told the only possible fix to the BMS is to tear the batteries apart and if the cells still test good, replace the BMS with a new/better unit. Not within my capability . . . no matter how "easy" it may be, as several forum members suggested.

Guess I'm just SOL.

Thanks for your gracious attempt at a solution. It was worth a shot.

Jim S.

 

[RStone13]

Thank you. I just changed the settings to the numbers you suggested. No difference.

For 4 days, I have been charging my lithium batteries with a 120V charger (not the Tracer SCC) with the batteries completely disconnected because the EPEVER Tracer would not charge them. (I had bad/wrong settings.) The best battery's voltage got to 13.37 volts using my multimeter.

After reconnecting one (only) of the batteries, turning the system on, and changing the settings, the Tracer MT50 meter alarmed and showed the battery voltage as 9.1V first, then 9.7V, and settled at 10.4V.

That's a huge difference from the multimeter reading of 13.37V? How the h--- does that happen?)

I turned the solar panels on to silence the alarm. But, the EPEVER Tracer went directly into "full battery" mode (PV and battery lights flashing) and, as before when in "full mode," there is only 1-2 amps going into the battery from the PV and SCC according to the Tracer MT50 meter. Purposely, no other loads. Everything is off except the 12V propane alarm, the fridge (for the controller, running on propane), the Tracer MT50 meter, and my inside "AiLi" voltage meter. Practically zero drain.

I'm back to accepting it is a BMS problem in the batteries. I can get no help from the U.S. distributor except "charge until full and the BMS will reset." The batteries will not charge above a 13.37V (best battery) to 13.28 V (worst battery). Yesterday, charging all day, there was 0.01 volt increase in each, so charging has essentially stopped completely (from the batteries' own 120V charger).

And, I'm told the only possible fix to the BMS is to tear the batteries apart and if the cells still test good, replace the BMS with a new/better unit. Not within my capability . . . no matter how "easy" it may be, as several forum members suggested.

Guess I'm just SOL.

Thanks for your gracious attempt at a solution. It was worth a shot.

Jim S.

Your welcome. That's all I had for suggestions. Sounds like more than I am capable of. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!