Trip breaker (BMS controlled) VS Relay breaker (BMS controlled) VS Circuit breaker (Normal switch)

[Seplos Chris Ren]

Most home batteries come with circuit breaker, however, there're several types of circuit breakers and they functions with different method.

Trip breaker and its trip protection method:
1. When BMS detects that the temperature value exceeds the over-temperature protection value, and the BMS does not turn off the MOSFET for some reason, the trip breaker will provide the 2nd level of protection.
2. When the BMS detects that the voltage value is 200mv exceeds the high voltage protection value, or 200mv lower than the low voltage protection value, however, the BMS can not turn off the MOSFET for some reason. the trip breaker will offer the response.
3. When the BMS detects that the current value exceeds the overcurrent protection value for more than 5 seconds, and the BMS still does not offer any response, the trip breaker will trip automatically in case any unexpected happens.

Relay breaker with the same trip protection method. and relay breaker could detect the status after turned off, once the battery status back to normal, it could turned on automatically, easy and convenient for remote control.

Normal circuit breaker only trip protection when there's a serious short circuit happened with huge current like thousands of amperes.

Check the comparison details on SEPLOS PUSUNG-135.

 

[Juan Gonzales]

I was wondering how to create a 2nd level of over-voltage protection after the BMS
Anybody has recomendation?
@sunshine_eggo @Supervstech

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Deleted. What a dummy!

 

[Supervstech]

Class T fuse.

I dont think that will provide ANY overvoltage protection...

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Reading fail... thanks.

 

[Supervstech]

I was wondering how to create a 2nd level of over-voltage protection after the BMS
Anybody has recomendation?
@sunshine_eggo @Supervstech

The bms is second line... the charge controller is primary... if you need a tertiary I'm concerned.
Most likely, the bms was shutting you down for quite a while before it failed...
Perhaps better monitoring?
Email alerts?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

The bms is second line... the charge controller is primary... if you need a tertiary I'm concerned.
Most likely, the bms was shutting you down for quite a while before it failed...
Perhaps better monitoring?
Email alerts?

I wonder if the motivation is based on MPPT failure taking the BMS out. If the BMS can't handle Voc, it's not secondary, it's toast.

It's something I'm contemplating for my NMC system. I don't think the Batrium could handle 150V.

 

[PeSCaLo]

The bms is second line... the charge controller is primary... if you need a tertiary I'm concerned.
Most likely, the bms was shutting you down for quite a while before it failed...
Perhaps better monitoring?
Email alerts?

@Supervstech , Do you think a JBD BMS is robust enough to depend on if there is a massive Failure on the charge controller?

 

[Supervstech]

@Supervstech , Do you think a JBD BMS is robust enough to depend on if there is a massive Failure on the charge controller?

Idk… food for thought though. The SCC needs to be reliable. The BMS should only be needed to protect from cell imbalance… it really isn’t designed to keep constant overvoltage under control. If the scc fails, I wonder how well the BMS can protect?

 

[Wolfonaship]

Have your batrium trip a mnedcrt and/ or mnepvrt. I have my shunt coulometer with multiple programmable protection values controlling these. If a sensed failure caused it to signal and trip the breakers I would want to be there to address the issue and fix it. So the inability for it to turn itself back on is completely fine with me. These breakers are rated to work with "no damage" to themselves. You also don't have the parasitic draw of a large relay.

Product - MidNite Solar

MidNite Solar Product Page.

www.midnitesolar.com

Product - MidNite Solar

MidNite Solar Product Page.

www.midnitesolar.com

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Have your batrium trip a mnedcrt and/ or mnepvrt. I have my shunt coulometer with multiple programmable protection values controlling these. If a sensed failure caused it to signal and trip the breakers I would want to be there to address the issue and fix it. So the inability for it to turn itself back on is completely fine with me. These breakers are rated to work with "no damage" to themselves. You also don't have the parasitic draw of a large relay.

Product - MidNite Solar

MidNite Solar Product Page.

www.midnitesolar.com

Product - MidNite Solar

MidNite Solar Product Page.

www.midnitesolar.com

I don't think I can count on the Batrium for this. I doubt it can survive even momentary contact with 100V+. I think I need a solution that can keep an open circuit up to 150V.

 

[Wolfonaship]

I don't think I can count on the Batrium for this. I doubt it can survive even momentary contact with 100V+. I think I need a solution that can keep an open circuit up to 150V.

Ah got it.
My shunt coulometer can handle 600v.

 

[Wolfonaship]

Ah got it.
My shunt coulometer can handle 600v.

I assume my fet bms would fry before the breaker is tripped due to the response time of the meter but my cells would live?
I bought a kg140f on ali for around 50usd.
Also spoke with the company and they are supposedly working on programming/ firmware update so as to control shunt/remote trip breakers without any of the middle hardware that I currently have installed. As of now it can control a no/nc relay.
I hope you can find something that fits your parameters and needs.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I assume my fet bms would fry before the breaker is tripped due to the response time of the meter but my cells would live?

That's my thinking. Since my battery is NMC, it's critical that I not allow over-voltage.

I bought a kg140f on ali for around 50usd.
Also spoke with the company and they are supposedly working on programming/ firmware update so as to control shunt/remote trip breakers without any of the middle hardware that I currently have installed. As of now it can control a no/nc relay.
I hope you can find something that fits your parameters and needs.

Thanks!

 

[Juan Gonzales]

shunt/remote trip breakers without any of the middle hardware that I currently have installed. As of now it can control a no/nc relay.

Whats the application difference between a Hunt/remote trip breaker and NO/NC Relay.
I mean, when to use one, vs the other?

 

[Wolfonaship]

Whats the application difference between a Hunt/remote trip breaker and NO/NC Relay.
I mean, when to use one, vs the other?

Well in my application the shunt/remote trip breaker is my battery's main disconnect as well one of serveral protection devices on my bank (fuses, etc..) . I use it rarely for this (manual- switch style shut down for upgrades/work) and hope it never has to be tripped by an event(remotely or normaly). After my bus bars I have blue sea battery switches before inverter and other fused dc loads. Once again, I rarely shut my system down (twice a year?) so the manual aspect of them are nice.
They also are not prone to failure or wasted power. Now if you have a system or circuit that requires a lot of on and off/switching or control of a larger load from a distance well a relay might be for you.

 

[Seplos Chris Ren]

00:26s The trip breaker is controlled by BMS.