TRIRON 4210N 40A charge controller understanding the watts ?

[Chadd]

Good evening another question if you would be so kind: )

I have just taken delivery of two TRIRON 4210N charge controllers.

We intended to feed them each with two 340w panels in series.

The online advert said : -

EPEVER 40A 12/24V MPPT TRIRON Controller

EPEVER 40A Maximum Power Point Tracker solar charge controller 40A MPPT solar charge controller EP Solar 40A MPPT solar charge controller

www.renytek.co.uk

EPEVER 40A 12/24V TRIRON Maximum Power Point Tracking Solar Charge Controller

The controller has an input voltage up to 100V enabling the unit to work with both On and Off Grid Solar panels. and a maximum input of 780 Watts for 12v batteries and with 24v batteries 1560 watts

The sticker on the top of the two 40 watt units we received says :-

Max of PV INPUT POWER 520 WATTS 12 VOLT 1040 W at 24 VOLTS.

We ordered the units on the basis of two panels at 340 watts in series = 680 watts.

However I read in the instruction book :-

Rated Charge Power 520w/12v 1040w24volts

Max PV Array 780w/12v 1560w/24v

The 340w panels will be in series the 12 volt batteries are in parallel as the inverter is 12 volt.

It is a bit confusing or misleading perhaps.

As I see it the TRIRON 4210N 40A charge controller will except the 680 w from the panels OK but can only produce 520w at its output ?

The lable on the unit appears a contradiction though please see image as it says 520w max PV input power ?

I have messaged the seller but they are closed till tomorrow.

Thank you for your time God Bless Chadd

God Bless Allen and Alanna

Just had a reply I have to say they are very prompt : )

Hello Allen

The maximum solar power (Watts) which can be connected to the 40A controller is 780 Watts

The maximum input power to the batteries is 520W

The above is for 12V batteries. And double for 24V.

The difference between the two figure enables higher rated solar panels to be connected to still achieve up to 520 Watts of battery charging power taking into account for example weather conditions which does substantially lower solar output.

Regards

Geoff

My reply

Hallo Jeff,

Thank you for your reply.

I think the advert should have stated that fact,

I realise it does say input but a bit like purchasing a 100 MPH battery in a car and finding out it can only do 75 mph with it: )

I realise that the panels are unlikely to produce the maximum power, but just the same unless the buyer is familiar with all these ratings, he could as we have, not get quite what he expected..

 

[MichaelK]

Two factors go into the math here. First is that battery does not charge at the voltage it's rated at. That is, a 12V battery commonly charges at ~13-14.4V, and a 24V battery charges at ~26-29V.

So, 520W/13Vcharging = 40A That's within the specs of your controller.

Secondly, is panel derating, which can vary brand to brand. That means the ACTUAL power coming out of the panel when directed exactly perpendicular to the sun at noon. Typically what I've measured myself is 85-87%.

So, when connecting your panels in series, and you use 85% derating, what you will actually see coming into your 12V battery will max out at...
{(340W X 2 panels)/13Vcharging] X 85% = 44.5A. So, right around 11:00am till about 1:00pm, the top 4 amps will get clipped off as unuseable power.

Most likely though in the real-world is that by noon or so the batteries are already reaching full charge, so the incoming amps is dropped down anyway.

 

[sergea]

Good evening another question if you would be so kind: )

I have just taken delivery of two TRIRON 4210N charge controllers.

We intended to feed them each with two 340w panels in series.

The online advert said : -

EPEVER 40A 12/24V MPPT TRIRON Controller

EPEVER 40A Maximum Power Point Tracker solar charge controller 40A MPPT solar charge controller EP Solar 40A MPPT solar charge controller

www.renytek.co.uk

EPEVER 40A 12/24V TRIRON Maximum Power Point Tracking Solar Charge Controller

The controller has an input voltage up to 100V enabling the unit to work with both On and Off Grid Solar panels. and a maximum input of 780 Watts for 12v batteries and with 24v batteries 1560 watts

The sticker on the top of the two 40 watt units we received says :-

Max of PV INPUT POWER 520 WATTS 12 VOLT 1040 W at 24 VOLTS.

We ordered the units on the basis of two panels at 340 watts in series = 680 watts.

However I read in the instruction book :-

Rated Charge Power 520w/12v 1040w24volts

Max PV Array 780w/12v 1560w/24v

The 340w panels will be in series the 12 volt batteries are in parallel as the inverter is 12 volt.

It is a bit confusing or misleading perhaps.

As I see it the TRIRON 4210N 40A charge controller will except the 680 w from the panels OK but can only produce 520w at its output ?

The lable on the unit appears a contradiction though please see image as it says 520w max PV input power ?

I have messaged the seller but they are closed till tomorrow.

Thank you for your time God Bless Chadd

God Bless Allen and Alanna

Just had a reply I have to say they are very prompt : )

Hello Allen

The maximum solar power (Watts) which can be connected to the 40A controller is 780 Watts

The maximum input power to the batteries is 520W

The above is for 12V batteries. And double for 24V.

The difference between the two figure enables higher rated solar panels to be connected to still achieve up to 520 Watts of battery charging power taking into account for example weather conditions which does substantially lower solar output.

Regards

Geoff

My reply

Hallo Jeff,

Thank you for your reply.

I think the advert should have stated that fact,

I realise it does say input but a bit like purchasing a 100 MPH battery in a car and finding out it can only do 75 mph with it: )

I realise that the panels are unlikely to produce the maximum power, but just the same unless the buyer is familiar with all these ratings, he could as we have, not get quite what he expected..

don't worry everything is good for your configuration . the scc can use MAX 520W from PV in a 12V configuration, and you can over panel up to 780W of PV in the same configuration. So your 680W of PV is ok.

 

[Chadd]

Two factors go into the math here. First is that battery does not charge at the voltage it's rated at. That is, a 12V battery commonly charges at ~13-14.4V, and a 24V battery charges at ~26-29V.

So, 520W/13Vcharging = 40A That's within the specs of your controller.

Secondly, is panel derating, which can vary brand to brand. That means the ACTUAL power coming out of the panel when directed exactly perpendicular to the sun at noon. Typically what I've measured myself is 85-87%.

So, when connecting your panels in series, and you use 85% derating, what you will actually see coming into your 12V battery will max out at...
{(340W X 2 panels)/13Vcharging] X 85% = 44.5A. So, right around 11:00am till about 1:00pm, the top 4 amps will get clipped off as unuseable power.

Most likely though in the real-world is that by noon or so the batteries are already reaching full charge, so the incoming amps is dropped down anyway.

A good explanation of what the reality will be, thank you, as Pilot said " what is truth` : )

The question could be why rate a panel at 340w if it will never produce that power, not that I expected it to, but it is still a fair question.

A lot of things are quoted under optimum conditions, but from your testing even with full sunlight full rated power is not achieved, still this forum is not about morals it is about reality.

I will get them screwed on the wall : ) God Bless Chadd

 

[Chadd]

don't worry everything is good for your configuration . the scc can use MAX 520W from PV in a 12V configuration, and you can over panel up to 780W of PV in the same configuration. So your 680W of PV is ok.

Thank you I shall fit them on the wall : )
It was Alanna who read the small print on the label on the top of the Charge converter, the ladies have sharp eyes, from foraging for berries I believe : )

 

[MichaelK]

The question could be why rate a panel at 340w if it will never produce that power, not that I expected it to, but it is still a fair question.

A lot of things are quoted under optimum conditions, but from your testing even with full sunlight full rated power is not achieved, still this forum is not about morals it is about reality.

They will produce that wattage under "Standardized Conditions". They put the panels held at exactly 25 degreesC and then check their output when exposed to light at exactly 1000W/sq meter. It's done that way so each and every panel manufacturer and test them under exactly the same conditions.

Getting back to the real-world, you won't expect the sun to make exactly 1000W/sq meter. There's dust, haze, and dirigibles that will block a bit of light to less than 1000W, and your panels will almost never be oriented exactly perpendicular to the sun. Also, after the panels heat up, their voltage goes down. So, once the panels warm past 25C they make less power.

All these factors makes for output lower, and that's why a derating is used. If fact, there is an industry recognized derating procedure. Look up the NOCT panel rating.