Truck Camper Build

[neil_99]

I was under the impression that the Orion chargers were the oddball in that they don't talk to a Cerbo like the solar charge controllers and inverter charger ?

I think I read that as well at some point. I think I'm going to stick with the Renogy DC-DC charger anyway. If Victron offered something that would carry a similar number of amps, I'd probably switch, but I don't want to run multiple DC-DC chargers.

 

[John Frum]

I think I read that as well at some point. I think I'm going to stick with the Renogy DC-DC charger anyway. If Victron offered something that would carry a similar number of amps, I'd probably switch, but I don't want to run multiple DC-DC chargers.

Does your alternator have the excess capacity to accommodate a 60 amp charger?
Can it accomodate that draw at idle?

 

[HRTKD]

I was under the impression that the Orion chargers were the oddball in that they don't talk to a Cerbo like the solar charge controllers and inverter charger ?

I'm not sure which ones can and cannot communicate. There are a few that seem non-smart that can be ruled out altogether.

 

[neil_99]

1. Consider the Victron to be rated at 2400 watts which assumes an overall power factor of 0.8.
2. Its an inverter/charger with built in automatic transfer switch which is a whole ofther thing compared to a discrete inverter like the Giandel.
3. As mentioned about its a low frequency inverter. Discrete low frequency inverters are as rare as unicorns. I'm not sure anyone makes one these days.

IMO the most directly comparable inverter/charger to the Victron would be this one https://www.donrowe.com/samlex-evo-2212-pure-sine-inverter-charger-p/evo-2212.htm

Does your alternator have the excess capacity to accommodate a 60 amp charger?
Can it accomodate that draw at idle?

Yes. I'm factory upgrading the alternator by around 120a.

 

[neil_99]

1. Consider the Victron to be rated at 2400 watts which assumes an overall power factor of 0.8.
2. Its an inverter/charger with built in automatic transfer switch which is a whole ofther thing compared to a discrete inverter like the Giandel.
3. As mentioned about its a low frequency inverter. Discrete low frequency inverters are as rare as unicorns. I'm not sure anyone makes one these days.

IMO the most directly comparable inverter/charger to the Victron would be this one https://www.donrowe.com/samlex-evo-2212-pure-sine-inverter-charger-p/evo-2212.htm

Are the Samlex Evo chargers low frequency? If so, would the Samlex Evo-3012 be a better fit since it actually provides 3000w and is around the same cost?

 

[HRTKD]

- You should connect all of your batteries to bus bars. Then the fuse can connect to the positive bus bar and the shunt can connect to the negative bus bar.
- You propose 1/0 cables with 400A fuses between the batteries and inverter. Given that the inverter is 12V/3000W you probably do end up wanting 400A fuses but 1/0 cables is much too small. The max fuse for 1/0 is 300A. You should use 4/0 wire to support the inverter. That also makes it safe to use 400A fuses.

Agreed on the use of a bus bar to bring the batteries together. I have two lugs on my Victron shunt and that works well. Four lugs? I'm not sure that would work.

I see only one fuse downstream of the batteries. In a do-as-say-not-as-I-do-comment, the general recommendation is to put a smaller fuse downstream of each battery and then one larger fuse downstream of the bus bar that brings the batteries together.

I have only two batteries and used a single 225 amp Class T fuse. My maximum possible draw at this point is only 98 amps, maybe 120 amps if went wild and turned EVERYTHING on at once.

A good number of two-battery implementations use a single fuse. Anything more than two batteries, you're starting to bleed into more rigorous requirements, in my opinion, and fusing each battery is a good idea. When I upgrade the inverter in my system (with the Victron 12/3000), that's likely when I'll fuse each battery.

 

[memilanuk]

Question on the panels & SCC... are you going with the 150/85 because of the listed power rating on controller vs the cumulative rating of the panels (800 watts)?

I'm planning a similar build - way less batteries due to space constraints but about the same amount of panels on the roof. This panels have an Isc of 5-6 amps each, and with a 2S2P setup you're not going to be anywhere near either the voltage or current limits of a much less expensive 100/50 SCC... or maybe one controller for each string, for a blend of redundancy and possibly reducing the effects of partial shading (or so I've heard).

 

[HRTKD]

Yes. I'm factory upgrading the alternator by around 120a.

Which truck?

 

[neil_99]

Agreed on the use of a bus bar to bring the batteries together. I have two lugs on my Victron shunt and that works well. Four lugs? I'm not sure that would work.

I see only one fuse downstream of the batteries. In a do-as-say-not-as-I-do-comment, the general recommendation is to put a smaller fuse downstream of each battery and then one larger fuse downstream of the bus bar that brings the batteries together.

I have only two batteries and used a single 225 amp Class T fuse. My maximum possible draw at this point is only 98 amps, maybe 120 amps if went wild and turned EVERYTHING on at once.

A good number of two-battery implementations use a single fuse. Anything more than two batteries, you're starting to bleed into more rigorous requirements, in my opinion, and fusing each battery is a good idea. When I upgrade the inverter in my system (with the Victron 12/3000), that's likely when I'll fuse each battery.

I'm planning on building the battery packs in pairs anyway, so maybe I do two class t fuses and then don't do the positive bus bar?

 

[neil_99]

Question on the panels & SCC... are you going with the 150/85 because of the listed power rating on controller vs the cumulative rating of the panels (800 watts)?

I'm planning a similar build - way less batteries due to space constraints but about the same amount of panels on the roof. This panels have an Isc of 5-6 amps each, and with a 2S2P setup you're not going to be anywhere near either the voltage or current limits of a much less expensive 100/50 SCC... or maybe one controller for each string, for a blend of redundancy and possibly reducing the effects of partial shading (or so I've heard).

I fed the data for the panels into this webpage (https://www.explorist.life/solar-charge-controller-calculator/) and used the peak voltage and amps to select my SCC. I'm planning on putting them all in parallel, so the voltage will stay pretty low to the SCC, but the output would be just below 80a.

 

[neil_99]

Which truck?

F450. The alternator will be the 398a.

 

[John Frum]

Are the Samlex Evo chargers low frequency? If so, would the Samlex Evo-3012 be a better fit since it actually provides 3000w and is around the same cost?

Yes the Samlex Evo is low frequency.

The 3000 watt Samlex Evo would be an even higher draw the the Victron.
As I hinted at earlier the Samlex 2200W version has equivalent testicular fortitude to the Victron 3000VA inverter/charger.

Samlex 2200 ac watts * 1.5 low frequency factor / 12 volts low cutoff = 275 service amps
275 service amps / .8 fuse headroom = 343.75 fault amps

Victron 2400 ac watts * 1.5 low frequency factor / 12 volts low cutoff = 300 service amps
275 service amps / .8 fuse headroom = 375 fault amps

Samlex 3000 ac watts * 1.5 low frequency factor / 12 volts low cutoff = 375 service amps
375 service amps / .8 fuse headroom = 468.75 fault amps

The 3000 watt Samlex is pretty tight for 4 100 amp rated BMSs in parralel.
The current is never going to be perfectly symetrical so the possibility of tripping a bms and getting a cascading failure is high.

 

[neil_99]

Yes the Samlex Evo is low frequency.

The 3000 watt Samlex Evo would be an even higher draw the the Victron.
As I hinted at earlier the Samlex 2200W version has equivalent testicular fortitude to the Victron 3000VA inverter/charger.

Samlex 2200 ac watts * 1.5 low frequency factor / 12 volts low cutoff = 275 service amps
275 service amps / .8 fuse headroom = 343.75 fault amps

Victron 2400 ac watts * 1.5 low frequency factor / 12 volts low cutoff = 300 service amps
275 service amps / .8 fuse headroom = 375 fault amps

Samlex 3000 ac watts * 1.5 low frequency factor / 12 volts low cutoff = 375 service amps
375 service amps / .8 fuse headroom = 468.75 fault amps

The 3000 watt Samlex is pretty tight for 4 100 amp rated BMSs in parralel.
The current is never going to be perfectly symetrical so the possibility of tripping a bms and getting a cascading failure is high.

So, if the BMS are 120 the Samlex would work? I don't think I really need the extra 600watts. But if the cost is pretty much the same, I think I would rather have the higher capacity.

 

[neil_99]

Here's the picture from Amy of the BMS. They do say 100A

 

[John Frum]

So, if the BMS are 120 the Samlex would work? I don't think I really need the extra 600watts. But if the cost is pretty much the same, I think I would rather have the higher capacity.

375 service amps / 4 batteries = 93.75 service amps
93.75 service amps / .8 current asymmetry factor = 117.1875 adjust service amps.
Should be ok as long as you are meticulous with your joinery.

 

[rmaddy]

I'm planning on having a Cerbo GX, but not the screen. I've wondered how much benefit the display will give vs. just using my phone as a screen. It sounds like you have found it to be valuable. Can you tell me what you get with your Pi screen that you don't get with your phone?

Since I don't have an actual Cerbo GX I don't know what sort of interface that would provide on a phone. I'm familiar with what you can get via VRM but not directly through the GX. Perhaps it gives you the same console screen I get on the RPi screen (which is the screen you would see on a Cerbo GX screen). The RPi doesn't support sending the interface to a phone which is why I have the touch screen connected to the RPi. Though the RPi is connected to my mobile router so I have full VRM support. But I like having the separate screen. It's right next to my head as I type this in my trailer. A quick tap and I can see the status of everything, control my inverter, and setup other system settings.

 

[HRTKD]

F450. The alternator will be the 398a.

That's a great truck! I have the F-350 SRW.

The 398 amp rating is a bit of a misnomer. Now keep in mind that I got this information on the Ford-Trucks.com forum. I can't remember what the source of the information was, if it was the service manual or the owner's manual. The two alternators don't usually operate at the same time. They take turns. One produces power while the other one cools down. Can they both run at the same time? Possibly, but I haven't confirmed that.

The point of this is that you don't typically have the full 398 amps being output. Instead, it's going to be the output of one of the alternators and as I recall, they don't both have the same rating.

 

[memilanuk]

I don't know if you've seen the "Morton's on the Move" site and/or YT channel... they did a series on a trip up to Alaska in a bigger Lance camper driving an F450. Turned out the dual alternators didn't quite work out the way they'd thought or planned. To be fair, I kind of did a 'Huh?' when I saw their original setup. They have a very different setup on their new build on an older (2000) camper (Host or NL, can't remember)

 

[neil_99]

I don't know if you've seen the "Morton's on the Move" site and/or YT channel... they did a series on a trip up to Alaska in a bigger Lance camper driving an F450. Turned out the dual alternators didn't quite work out the way they'd thought or planned. To be fair, I kind of did a 'Huh?' when I saw their original setup. They have a very different setup on their new build on an older (2000) camper (Host or NL, can't remember)

Interesting. It sounds like they didn't have a dc-dc charger since later in the video they recommend the Sterling power unit as a solution. It sounds like I should be extra careful in testing how the alternators and the dc-dc charger interact.

 

[memilanuk]

Yeah, in the first one they ran some massive cables and just had a Li-BiM (battery isolator). I think if you watch that video from the beginning they discuss that part a little more. Kind of made me go "Huh?!?" when I saw that, and then when they had problems with the alternator overheating I wasn't too terribly surprised. Given the resources they had on tap for that build, I'm kind of surprised nobody at Lance or Battleborn said "Not a good idea".

Like I said, I'm looking at a similar, if smaller, build on my Adventurer 910DB. I don't have the massive basement area that some of the bigger campers have, and for better or worse, all the electrical stuff on this model is located under/behind the dry bath and the kitchen sink - not under the dinette like on some. So I'm relatively space constrained, even in a not-small camper. I've been waffling a bit between keeping everything 'in the family' (Victron), and able to manage from one phone app (or eventually a Cerbo GX), vs. having separate discrete elements like the Samlex Evo 3012 and a Renogy 40 or 60A DC-DC charger, that have higher individual ratings and/or specs. I'm kind of leaning toward the Victron option at this point, simply because having everything (other than the Orion) 'talk' to each other seems like a win.