diy solar

diy solar

Trying to power a damaged Ranch

havoc Sun

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Dec 1, 2021
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So as I mentioned in earlier posts, I bought a ranch that caught fire. It was put out rather quickly, actually the fire department caused more damage then the fire did. I feel the building department of this area overreacted and "Red Tagged" the ranch. Until everything is repaired the county will not turn on my power meter. So I bought a small 200 watt solar kit from Harbour Freight ($198) that was a waste of money. I tried putting a inverter to it but nothing lasted long on my batteries. I found great help here so far, I was told where to buy Solar Panels. I bought 23, for $50 each, plus shipping. Now I'm looking for a good voltage controller, Pure Sine wave Inverter & batteries. I would like the ability to grab power from the grid if ever I need it, or easily transfer to a 3500 watt generator. Maybe look into a wind turbine as well. I would like to have all of these things mentioned wired in together, but for the most part I want to be off grid. Is that possible? It's not a large Ranch, three bedrooms, dining room, kitchen, hobby/editing room, garage & a barn.
There will be no gas, the heat & air will be delivered by a AC/Mini pro. I will use a electric tankless water heater & stove. All fixtures in the house will be modern low voltage LED. But my "Great Hall" will have a full sound system (large & heavy watts), Large screen LCD TV, as well as some vintage stereo equipment, including a huge picture tube TV (for playing duck hunt, also huge power user) in my game room/ great hall. Of course not all of this equipment will be on all of the time. Most of the vintage heavy energy users may only be on for a short time. In my garage I will have a Arc, Mig welders & air compressor. So the question of the day is can I build a solar system that won't break the bank & run everything I just mentioned. I have inclosed a video of the Ranch to give you a better idea of what I need. The Ranch
& my first solar project
 
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So the question of the day is can I build a solar system that won't break the bank & run everything I just mentioned.
It depends on the bank.
But for anybody to help, you need to quantify your needs by performing an energy audit. There are links to a couple in my signature but there are many out there. With the energy audit, the possible solutions become fairly easy to identify.
The energy audit will also teach you more about this endeavor than any other step.
 
Watched your video. Damage looks minor. Time wise, I'd focus on getting the power back on. Then you can leisurely enjoy worrying about solar.
Actually running the generator is not a big deal, it runs everything I need even my air compressor. Currently I'm living with my daughter in the town of Menifee. We only go out to the ranch to work on it, oh and unload all my stuff. I could have dropped a utility pole in for $1800 but my generator is running everything very well. I am waiting on my plans I submitted to be approved before I can start on repairs. So in the meantime I thought I would design a full tilt solar system. That goes to the grid if need be or goes to the generator or even a wind turbine. being able to switch to any of the three easily would make for a great solar system I would think. But now I need input, suggestions & links of people who have gone before me. Any help would be appreciated.
 
It depends on the bank.
But for anybody to help, you need to quantify your needs by performing an energy audit. There are links to a couple in my signature but there are many out there. With the energy audit, the possible solutions become fairly easy to identify.
The energy audit will also teach you more about this endeavor than any other step.
Thank you for the link, I will go & learn!
 
From your described list of appliances this seems like a very large solar build.
I agree, I don't know if I can afford to build something this big. I just started using the energy audit I was directed to above. Wow nice tool, but my needs will be crazy high!
 
I've been out to your neck of the woods. It's refreshing to see spreads like that in southern California. I'm not an expert, but I've heard you need to pull permits and get approval from the utility for a grid-tied system. You can start off off-grid with one of those all-in-one inverter/chargers and pull from the grid when you're hooked up again. Will has a video.


Here is it's big brother.

 
Small electric demand water heaters are 14500 watts! It’s doable, I don’t have that kind of budget but you may.
Tankless electric water heaters draw far less power, but adding everything up.... I agree, I don't know if I can swing this power unit. I wonder if building a modest solar power unit & share it with the grid might help my energy bill.
 
I've been out to your neck of the woods. It's refreshing to see spreads like that in southern California. I'm not an expert, but I've heard you need to pull permits and get approval from the utility for a grid-tied system. You can start off off-grid with one of those all-in-one inverter/chargers and pull from the grid when you're hooked up again. Will has a video.


Here is it's big brother.

It looks like this controller can connect to the grid so that if you exceed this controllers demand the grid takes over. Is that correct, if not is there something out there that will do that?
 
If you can get a propane tank - you can move the largest items- water heating and heat to propane. This can make it so solar works much easier. Actually I would have both for those systems- an electric water heater feeding a gas one - and only when you have surplus power - heat water with elec. (Same for regular heating).

If you can reduce the largest draws - the whole system gets easier.
 
It looks like this controller can connect to the grid so that if you exceed this controllers demand the grid takes over. Is that correct, if not is there something out there that will do that?
No, those are "off grid" systems as far as I can tell. What you're looking for is a "grid tie" system which can pull from the grid when solar is not enough or push power back into the grid when you have excess power.

These require special equipment and permitting because it's possible to pump lethal voltage levels back into the transmission lines that are supposed to be disconnected. So utility workers get up on a hot system that's supposed to be cold and... Anyway, just be aware that grid tie is another layer of complexity and responsibility to be approached carefully.
 
It looks like this controller can connect to the grid so that if you exceed this controllers demand the grid takes over. Is that correct, if not is there something out there that will do that?
Watch out for the math. Wholesale prices of electricity is not the retail price. You can check out CALISO to see the wholesale prices. The supply of solar when the solar is out is starting to exceed demand. The government added credits and net metering rules to increase solar usage. Now there is too much solar. The price of electricity goes negative when supply exceeds demand. As each person adds more solar, the supply increases and the demand decreases. There is no storage on the grid of any size to store the power for later. It's awful to spend $ on a solar installation, and have to pay people to use your power. Net metering is a rule that you will get paid the retail price when you sell power. This difference in $ is taxed from the non solar users. There are movements to stop net metering.

 
No, those are "off grid" systems as far as I can tell. What you're looking for is a "grid tie" system which can pull from the grid when solar is not enough or push power back into the grid when you have excess power.

These require special equipment and permitting because it's possible to pump lethal voltage levels back into the transmission lines that are supposed to be disconnected. So utility workers get up on a hot system that's supposed to be cold and... Anyway, just be aware that grid tie is another layer of complexity and responsibility to be approached carefully.
Then I won't be doing that for now.
 
It looks like this controller can connect to the grid so that if you exceed this controllers demand the grid takes over. Is that correct, if not is there something out there that will do that?
Yes it is correct for some inverters and AIOs

I am not sure if the LV6548 in the videos have grid support, but I believe they do. Regardless there're several systems out there that do.

What you are talking about is grid supported, NOT Grid Tied.
- an inverter with grid support can receive power from the grid but does not sell back. If the grid goes down, the inverter has a transfer switch that switches to totally off grid in the blink of an eye.

My Schneider Conext SW4024 inverter does this. You can set it to use 2 amps from the grid and the rest of the load will come from solar and/or batteries up to 4000w's and 7000w surge.
Examples of these type of inverters: Conext SW series, most Growatt AIOs like the 6000T and 12000T, Outback Radian (which can also be grid tied I think) and the Schneider XW Pro series (which can also be grid tied?)

- Grid Tied sells back to the grid. Requires approval from the PoCo and must be inspected by the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction for your area) . But if the power goes out, your system shuts down unless you also have batteries connected to the system, which adds to the complexity.

Also just for clarity.
- a "controller" (as you said) might be what is referred to as a solar charge controller or SCC Only. No inverter
- and inverter is a stand alone dc to ac power converter.
- an all in one or AIO Is like what is in the video above for the MPp LV6548. It is both a SCC and inverter combo.
 
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Then I won't be doing that for now.
@havoc Sun don't give up just yet. There are a variety of ways to install and set up a solar system and custom Taylor it to your needs .

I am about to install a 12kw Growatt 12000T AIO for my daughter's farm. They got quoted $35k+ to bring grid power out. We are building a 12kw ac off grid system with a 11840w solar array and 28,600Whs of battery storage for just over $15k.The batteries will be the weak link, but we plan to add more by next summer.

I would also seriously consider a pair of those LV6548's (in the videos above) for 240v ac split phase. Those look pretty awesome. And UL certified.
 
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Tankless electric water heaters draw far less power,
While I understand what u are saying, that a tankless might use less energy to do the same job... A whole house 13 kw tankless water heater requires over double the power to operate than a traditional tank water heater. A tank water heater usually has 2 4500w elements, neither of which operate at the same time and can be wire with #10 wire. The 13kw tankless I just installed required #6 wire.

So while the standard tank heater could run on a 6000w inverter. A 13kw tankless would require upwards of a 15kw inverter.
 
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Also, little know (or thought of) fact, you can operate a standard 240v ac tank water heater on 120v ac. It will simply cut the output by 75% +/-. 4500 watts becomes closer to 1100 watts and it takes 4x's longer to heat the water. But this is how I store excess solar power generation through the day if my batteries reach 100% by noon. I don't sell back to the grid (I'm not grid tied), but I use my hot water I stored at night. It's free. Basically (in a way) I use my hot water heater like a second battery.
 
Hybrid water heater is the way to go, they seem to run around 600-800w in heat pump mode and you can run them in that mode only....even disconnect the "backup" 4500w heater elements if you need to make sure they are never activated.
 
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