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UL listing and/or other certifications

T

thescoutranch

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Jul 13, 2022
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Hello all,
I am hoping somebody might be able to clarify this for me.
For a grid tied solar system, I have read that all components need to be UL listed. What I don’t quite understand is the term UL listed. Has that term become a catchall for all US certification laboratories(NRTLs)

“NEC Section 690.4(B) establishes that PV modules must be listed and several NRTLs are designated by OSHA to list those products. They each have marks (symbols) that will appear on the back of the PV module and include UL (Underwriters Laboratories), ETL (Intertek Testing Services NA, Inc. (ITSNA)), TUV (TUV Rheinland PTL, LCC), and CSA (CSA Group Testing and Certification, Inc.).” This info is from:
https://iaeimagazine.org/columns/pho...afraid-to-ask/

Is UL listed = ETL / CSA / ITSNA / TUV?

thanks for any help understanding this.

Epp
 
Different countries have different standards.

In the U.S. It is UL ( Underwriters Laboritory)

For a inverter powering a dwelling the standard is U.L.1741

My Magnasine is “listed by“ ETL TO UL 1741

My Midnight Solar Classic is “listed by“ ETL TO UL 1741

Please note the term is “LISTED BY”

It is not tested to UL1741
it is not certified to UL 1741

by whom, Jacks Cigar shop

NO..... it must be “LISTED BY”

Many Chinese Inverters are tested to UL1741 by whom? Barbie’s hair salon????

That is total bull, meant to bullshit you into believing that it is “Listed By” when in fact it is not “Listed by” any testing any registered by U.S. OSHA NRTL Laboratory certification

All the testing agencies you listed are Listed by the U.S. OSHA NRTL....this is a requirement here
 
I did read your post above and I have seen some of the trickery you mentioned above.

So if a panel or component has a CSA or ETL stamp/logo on it, does that mean it doesn’t need the UL stamp/logo?

This example is what is confusing me.
Is certified and list the same thing? For example the Q-cells; I understand (maybe I am wrong) they are UL listed, but the data sheet has a “certified UL 1703” by CSA (which is one of the NRTLs) on it. I don’t see anywhere on the data sheet that it is “UL listed “.
In this case, if it is “Certified to UL 1703” by a NRTL, which was CSA, is that the equal to “UL Listed” for use?


More help will be appreciated
Thanks
Epp
 
Some retailers like to toot about their UL tested wares as if they were UL listed. @Tecnodave has pointed out, UL listed and UL tested are not necessarily the same thing. Ask your local utility. They should have a lot of information for you to cipher. If you know your local inspector, or others in the area who have gone solar, might be worth some time to pay them a visit and gather a bit of information on their endeavor.
 
Kornbread said:
Some retailers like to toot about their UL tested wares as if they were UL listed. @Tecnodave has pointed out, UL listed and UL tested are not necessarily the same thing. Ask your local utility. They should have a lot of information for you to cipher. If you know your local inspector, or others in the area who have gone solar, might be worth some time to pay them a visit and gather a bit of information on their endeavor.
Click to expand...

For Gridtie, UL1741SA , for Storage UL9540A or it won't pass **AHJ. Anything else is a Chinese company looking for your wallet.

** Yes today some locations are older codes, but the future is coming regardless of what is your AHJ does today.
 
Solar Guppy said:
For Gridtie, UL1741SA , for Storage UL9540A or it won't pass **AHJ. Anything else is a Chinese company looking for your wallet.

** Yes today some locations are older codes, but the future is coming regardless of what is your AHJ does today.
Click to expand...
Today is all that matters. Unless you are designing a system that will be built in a few years. Some AHJ's are very lenient. (Or lack the knowledge to know better)
 
Solar Guppy said:
For Gridtie, UL1741SA , for Storage UL9540A or it won't pass **AHJ. Anything else is a Chinese company looking for your wallet.

** Yes today some locations are older codes, but the future is coming regardless of what is your AHJ does today.
Click to expand...
Out here in the sticks ... what's an ahj. Never seen one.
 
thescoutranch said:
In this case, if it is “Certified to UL 1703” by a NRTL, which was CSA, is that the equal to “UL Listed” for use?
Click to expand...


In California the state PUC (Public Utilities Commission) requires the device to be “Listed” by the certification Agency

tested to UL , TUV, ETL or any other testing agency does not get it
certified to UL , TUV, ETL or any other testing agency does not get it

PUC will only check the listing pages of the certification agency
They WILL NOT search eleswhere.

This is detailed on the PUC information pages.

All devices approved by the State of California are listed on the PUC page “ acceptable devices”
 
Tecnodave said:
In California the state PUC (Public Utilities Commission) requires the device to be “Listed” by the certification Agency

tested to UL , TUV, ETL or any other testing agency does not get it
certified to UL , TUV, ETL or any other testing agency does not get it

PUC will only check the listing pages of the certification agency
They WILL NOT search eleswhere.

This is detailed on the PUC information pages.

All devices approved by the State of California are listed on the PUC page “ acceptable devices”
Click to expand...
Funny thing, a retailer that often posts on this forum, basically stated that tested and listed were virtually the same thing.
 
Tecnodave said:
Different countries have different standards.

In the U.S. It is UL ( Underwriters Laboritory)

For a inverter powering a dwelling the standard is U.L.1741

My Magnasine is “listed by“ ETL TO UL 1741

My Midnight Solar Classic is “listed by“ ETL TO UL 1741

Please note the term is “LISTED BY”

It is not tested to UL1741
it is not certified to UL 1741

by whom, Jacks Cigar shop

NO..... it must be “LISTED BY”

Many Chinese Inverters are tested to UL1741 by whom? Barbie’s hair salon????

That is total bull, meant to bullshit you into believing that it is “Listed By” when in fact it is not “Listed by” any testing any registered by U.S. OSHA NRTL Laboratory certification

All the testing agencies you listed are Listed by the U.S. OSHA NRTL....this is a requirement here
Click to expand...
Yep that pretty much sums it up.
If it's not Listed in the UL database which is online and used by most States then it's not going to pass.
Also note that if your putting the Inverter outdoors then it has to be UL listed for that kind of installation.
There are many brands of Inverters and Batteries on the Market that are UL listed. I suggest the shortest path to finding what is available is to look at EcoDirects Website. From what I can see they only sell equipment that can pass inspection and they have a wide variety of stuff. From there you can Source what suits your situation from wherever you want to buy it.
 
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It really comes down to what the local AHJ will accept. I know that most of the young inspectors in my area wouldn't even know what a UL sticker looks like. I can't count on both hands, how many times an inspector has walked into a job and handed me the sticker and said "put it wherever you want, I'm in a hurry". And drove away without looking at anything.
 
timselectric said:
It really comes down to what the local AHJ will accept. I know that most of the young inspectors in my area wouldn't even know what a UL sticker looks like. I can't count on both hands, how many times an inspector has walked into a job and handed me the sticker and said "put it wherever you want, I'm in a hurry". And drove away without looking at anything.
Click to expand...
That may be true in some rare cases but in a lot of other cases people systems get rejected and you have to fix or change numerous items. It's not worth it hoping that the guy who shows up is incompetent. Most of them tend to be hard asses.
If your Grid Tied, in most States or Countries the power company is not welcoming your installation, they are typically dreading it.
 
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robby said:
That may be true in some rare cases but in a lot of other cases people systems get rejected and they have to fix or change numerous items. It's not worth it hoping that the guy who shows up is incompetent. Most of them tend to be hard asses. If your Grid Tied, in most states or countries the power company is not welcoming your installation, they are typically dreading it.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that anyone should take the chance. I'm saying that they should ask their inspector before buying anything.
And yes, grid-tied is a completely different messy can of worms.
 
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