Urgent help please

[Emm]

Hello, new to the forum and new to solar power so please accept my apologies for stupid questions.

I have a new solar system installed that has completely failed in three months. I don't have any recall because I didn't check the credentials of the installer ( big mistake)

So I have 14 solar panels 250w ( only 12 of which are in use wired in series)
8, 6v lead acid GEL batteries wired in series

Masterpower inverter MF Omega UM 5kv3

It is a 48v system.

The batteries have failed and after a ton of research I have figured out that it is because the inverter charge controller cannot be set for GEL batteries.

So I have damaged the batteries by discharging to 100% for the last 3 months.

Lesson learned massively! Now I am trying to figure out my best options, I took out a loan to get this system installed after being without power for three years and my funds are very limited.
From my research my options are, replace my inverter with one that can charge the batteries like the victron multiplus ii (not sure if I need the mppt controller with that also) and hope and pray that they can last a little longer, OR replace the batteries my best option being a 4.8kw lithium battery (but not 100% sure if that would even work without changing the inverter set up as well)

Another professional recommended that I keep everything as is and install a victron mppt smart solar 250/100ve.can controller. But he won't install it for me because of the batteries I have.

Either one of the ways is going to cost more money than I have so trying to figure out my best option here.

Eventually, I want to upgrade it all to the system I should have got in the first place with lithium batteries and a quality inverter. But it's going to be over a period of time and I really need to at least power my WiFi and lights in the evening.

Any help would be massively appreciated.

I have attached photos of what I have installed now.

 

[stienman]

What do you mean by "completely failed"? That is not enough information to help you determine what needs to be adjusted or replaced.
In other words, what are the symptoms of failure, and what is the system doing when the sun is shining on the panels?

If you have a multimeter, check the voltage from the solar panel during the day (be careful - 372VDC is no joke!) and at night, and check the battery voltage during the day and at night.

Do you have utility power? If so, consider using the inverter/charger to charge the batteries from the utility power to see if they can take a charge if the solar isn't charging them.

In other words, you need to troubleshoot and determine what isn't working, exactly:
1. Are the solar panels producing power?
2. Is that power making it all the way to the charge controller/inverter?
3. Is the charge controller/inverter correctly using the solar power to charge the batteries?
4. Is the charge controller/inverter correctly using the solar/battery power to generate an AC output?
5. Are the batteries taking, holding, and releasing power appropriately?
6. Is the AC output sufficient for the loads being used?

You've indicated that the batteries were drawn down 100%, and that they've sustained damage - what are the symptoms or measurements you've taken to determine that? Is it all the batteries, or just a few, or just one that is damaged?

 

[JWLV]

If this happened to me, I would replace the batteries with a 48v LiFePO4 battery. It is more expensive than lead acid, but nearly all LiFePO4 batteries have a BMS built-in that will shut off the battery if you drain it too close to 0%. It should save your battery from an early death. Lead acid do not have a BMS built-in. It depends on the inverter to shut off to save the battery.

 

[Q-Dog]

It also couldn't hurt to find the operator's manual and figure out what kind of batteries this unit can work with ... provided it is only a battery failure and the inverter itself hasn't failed.

 

[John Frum]

@Emm please post pictures of the core of the system.
Also of the solar array.
Do you have a shunt based battery monitor?

 

[stienman]

Reading through the manual, it would not have drawn the batteries down below 42v:

https://www.masterbattery.es/manuales/Omega_UM-v3-es.pdf - see setting 29, low DC cutoff voltage

So while you may have some battery damage, it won't be because the inverter completely drained them to 0, which means the batteries should be ok. Each 6v battery should be reading around 5.25v worst case, unless one or more are actually damaged.

The inverter doesn't care or need to know whether the lead acid batteries are flooded, gel, or AGM, so the fact that yours are gel is irrelevant, and is not the cause of whatever issue you are having.

 

[Emm]

What do you mean by "completely failed"? That is not enough information to help you determine what needs to be adjusted or replaced.
In other words, what are the symptoms of failure, and what is the system doing when the sun is shining on the panels?

If you have a multimeter, check the voltage from the solar panel during the day (be careful - 372VDC is no joke!) and at night, and check the battery voltage during the day and at night.

Do you have utility power? If so, consider using the inverter/charger to charge the batteries from the utility power to see if they can take a charge if the solar isn't charging them.

In other words, you need to troubleshoot and determine what isn't working, exactly:
1. Are the solar panels producing power?
2. Is that power making it all the way to the charge controller/inverter?
3. Is the charge controller/inverter correctly using the solar power to charge the batteries?
4. Is the charge controller/inverter correctly using the solar/battery power to generate an AC output?
5. Are the batteries taking, holding, and releasing power appropriately?
6. Is the AC output sufficient for the loads being used?

You've indicated that the batteries were drawn down 100%, and that they've sustained damage - what are the symptoms or measurements you've taken to determine that? Is it all the batteries, or just a few, or just one that is damaged?

Okay, sorry I will explain all that I can understand myself.

1.The solar panels are producing power. Approx 2500w at peak sun.
2. The inverter is using the power correctly to supply the house during daylight hours.
3. The inverter settings only accept AGM or flooded or user defined. It is currently set to AGM as the installer left it. Although it is saying that the batteries are charged 100% I think that the reading is wrong due to the settings. I have added a screenshot of the current setting. There isn't an option for GEL
4 The batteries although at 100% by sundown are rapidly dropping to 0% within a few hours. I am told that they are not being charged to the correct voltage by the settings and this is why they are losing charge.
5. I was only running max 200w through the night. No fridge, no TV purely WiFi and lights the odd phone charger.
6. The batteries are measuring 6.2-6.4 (whilst connected) each in the day and at night they are all different. Ranging from 5.2 to 6.4. I already replaced one that had bad cells and it has made no difference. I am almost 100% sure that it is the charge settings but I can't input the correct one (and wouldn't be confident doing so)
7. The current setting in the inverter is set to 43v cut off, it was set by the installer and discharged to 0% for a number of days before I figured out that was a big problem.

 

[Emm]

If this happened to me, I would replace the batteries with a 48v LiFePO4 battery. It is more expensive than lead acid, but nearly all LiFePO4 batteries have a BMS built-in that will shut off the battery if you drain it too close to 0%. It should save your battery from an early death. Lead acid do not have a BMS built-in. It depends on the inverter to shut off to save the battery.

That's an option but not sure if my current inverter can be set up correctly. I contacted a supplier and he said with limited capabilities and I am not sure what that means. Trying to ask him to clarify.

 

[Emm]

It also couldn't hurt to find the operator's manual and figure out what kind of batteries this unit can work with ... provided it is only a battery failure and the inverter itself hasn't failed.

I have looked but can't really make sense of all of the numbers and specs

 

[Emm]

Reading through the manual, it would not have drawn the batteries down below 42v:

https://www.masterbattery.es/manuales/Omega_UM-v3-es.pdf - see setting 29, low DC cutoff voltage

So while you may have some battery damage, it won't be because the inverter completely drained them to 0, which means the batteries should be ok. Each 6v battery should be reading around 5.25v worst case, unless one or more are actually damaged.

The inverter doesn't care or need to know whether the lead acid batteries are flooded, gel, or AGM, so the fact that yours are gel is irrelevant, and is not the cause of whatever issue you are having.

 

[Emm]

No it is set to 43v min cut off. The batteries vary in v reading. They all read around 6.3 during daylight. But after sunset they are all different. The wiring and everything has been checked and everything with that is perfect. But after sunset they are (according to the inverter) dropping to around 45v in a couple of hours.

 

[Q-Dog]

With "use" mode you should be able to set charging parameters for just about any battery type. You should also be able to set a low cutoff to prevent over discharge to whatever amount you choose.

 

[mikefitz]

From information in the manual it is clear that any charge perameter can be setup for any battery type. For the GEL batteries used, a charge voltage of 58.4 to 59.2 is recommended.
If the batteries are reading only 6.3 volts they are not being charged correctly.
Suggest following the manual procedure using 'user' mode to setup battery charge perameters.
If the batteries are showing very different voltages under load then it's possible they are at different states of charge.
Whilst its possible a full charge of the battery string may improve things, each of the eight 6 volt batteries may need a individual charge to full. Battery balance systems can be connected to the string of batteries to keep the batteries balanced.
You have consumer rights in the EU thus the installer should be sorting out the issues. It seems from your comment's installer assistance is proving difficult.
Following the Instruction manual with user settings for the battery charge voltages and inverter settings, could improve things. More investigation and tests are needed before accepting the batteries have failed.

Mike

 

[Emm]

@Emm please post pictures of the core of the system.
Also of the solar array.
Do you have a shunt based battery monitor?

With "use" mode you should be able to set charging parameters for just about any battery type. You should also be able to set a low cutoff to prevent over discharge to whatever amount you choose.

Trying to change that now.

 

[Emm]

From information in the manual it is clear that any charge perameter can be setup for any battery type. For the GEL batteries used a charge voltage of 58.4 to 59.2 is recommended.
If the batteries are reading only 6.3 volts they are not being charged correctly.
Suggest following the manual procedure using 'user' mode to setup battery charge perameters.

So I am setting the new parameters. Do these look right. Trying to work from the figures on the side of the batteries. Battery cut off voltage should be around 46?

 

[Emm]

@Emm please post pictures of the core of the system.
Also of the solar array.
Do you have a shunt based battery monitor?

Not sure if this is good enough?

 

[Emm]

Not sure if this is good enough?

I don't have any shunt based monitor

 

[Mattb4]

Bit fuzzy image of your battery but if I am reading it right is says that it is a 500ah over a 100hr rating. I don't think I have ever encountered such a rated battery before. Normally you would see either 20 or 10 hour. What this means is each of your 6 volts batteries are rated to deliver over a period of 100 hours the 500ah. Why this matters is if you draw at a higher rate of current over a shorter time those batteries are likely to fail.

I suspect your problem is not due to your inverter/chargers charging profile but instead the wrong type of batteries for a solar power setup.

 

[Q-Dog]

Is this your battery?

https://www.upowerbatteries.com/pdfs/UP-GV600-6RE.pdf

 

[Emm]

From information in the manual it is clear that any charge perameter can be setup for any battery type. For the GEL batteries used, a charge voltage of 58.4 to 59.2 is recommended.
If the batteries are reading only 6.3 volts they are not being charged correctly.
Suggest following the manual procedure using 'user' mode to setup battery charge perameters.
If the batteries are showing very different voltages under load then it's possible they are at different states of charge.
Whilst its possible a full charge of the battery string may improve things, each of the eight 6 volt batteries may need a individual charge to full. Battery balance systems can be connected to the string of batteries to keep the batteries balanced.
You have consumer rights in the EU thus the installer should be sorting out the issues. It seems from your comment's installer assistance is proving difficult.
Following the Instruction manual with user settings for the battery charge voltages and inverter settings, could improve things. More investigation and tests are needed before accepting the batteries have failed.

Mike

Thank you Mike.

No help from the installer and I had another installer here yesterday that told me it was impossible to charge the batteries correctly with my inverter and that I needed to install an mppt controller that bypassed the one integrated in the inverter. He suggested a victron €855 euros. But couldn't guarantee guarantee that it would fix the problem. Although he tested the batteries and said they seem okay.