Using ATS with off grid system

[Jimbo75]

I am contemplating a solar system for my house, but the UL certified and listed components are quite a bit more expensive than the off grid (CE certified), non US certified system. Another concern is that even after spending the extra money, I might discover that I still don't have the right components to be legal for the grid.
M solution would be to use the CE components and use an ATS automatic switching to allow me to use the grid when the batteries are discharged, but never allow my solar system to put power back to the grid. This seems like a good compromise, and gives me peace of mind knowing that my system cannot damage equipment or hunt anyone. Question is: How do the code inspectors regard this type of setup? Will it pass inspection?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Grid tie requires UL 1741 SA compliance. Period. No exceptions.

Connecting the grid to the input of an off-grid inverter is not "grid tie." It's just a load on the grid. You could simply have one system that never feeds back to the grid but can be set to regulate how much solar/battery it uses before falling back to grid. Of course, this would need to be a very hefty system that can both pass through and supply all needed loads.

If you are subject to NEC requirements, an inspector will almost certainly fail any non UL hardware unless that Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) permits alternate listings.

 

[trippydude]

Grid tie requires UL 1741 SA compliance. Period. No exceptions.

Connecting the grid to the input of an off-grid inverter is not "grid tie." It's just a load on the grid. You could simply have one system that never feeds back to the grid but can be set to regulate how much solar/battery it uses before falling back to grid. Of course, this would need to be a very hefty system that can both pass through and supply all needed loads.

If you are subject to NEC requirements, an inspector will almost certainly fail any non UL hardware unless that Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) permits alternate listings.

And the rule is idiotic., grenerator based backups utilize an ATS, why must it be different for solar backup? And don't give me this nonsense about battery DC Coupling, solar panels are DC Coupled.

 

[trippydude]

Screw it, I don't need you to answer. I'll tell you the answer. It's because the power companies don't want you to have solar if you're not selling your excess back to them at a fraction of the cost they charge you. And to guarantee you the short end of the stick, they're not even really paying you For the excess power productiuon they automatically get, they're not even crediting your account! They're offsetting your energy usage. In the event that your bill is $0.00, you are done. From that point on they're getting your energy for free, because netmetering never stops, even when solar buyback does. This is precisely why Tesla is trying to form itlelf as a powere generation facility, because it sees what's going on. What if I didnt want to participate in the net metering scheme? Maybe I don't want their pittance and am perfectly happy using some grid power when I need it, and am happy to pay for it and send any excess power I generate straight to ground after charging my batteries? Why is this not an option? Why is it that no solar installation can be permitted for grid connection without a netmetering agreement in place? Its because the solar industry's first concern is not for for the consumer, and neither is it's second or third. That'sa why, and UL 1741 is an integral part of the scam.

 

[cgreen]

Screw it, I don't need you to answer. I'll tell you the answer. It's because the power companies don't want you to have solar if you're not selling your excess back to them at a fraction of the cost they charge you. And to guarantee you the short end of the stick, they're not even really paying you For the excess power productiuon they automatically get, they're not even crediting your account! They're offsetting your energy usage. In the event that your bill is $0.00, you are done. From that point on they're getting your energy for free, because netmetering never stops, even when solar buyback does. This is precisely why Tesla is trying to form itlelf as a powere generation facility, because it sees what's going on. What if I didnt want to participate in the net metering scheme? Maybe I don't want their pittance and am perfectly happy using some grid power when I need it, and am happy to pay for it and send any excess power I generate straight to ground after charging my batteries? Why is this not an option? Why is it that no solar installation can be permitted for grid connection without a netmetering agreement in place? Its because the solar industry's first concern is not for for the consumer, and neither is it's second or third. That'sa why, and UL 1741 is an integral part of the scam.

I tend to agree with you. I am an off grid solar household using the grid solely as Backup. Yet, my electric company is now requiring me to have my setup inspected or else they will shut off my grid connection. I will not pass inspection since it was a DIY build I did myself. Even though I know my wiring and connections are correct, there are things that won't pass code, such as my inverter not being UL listed. I don't wish to net meter because, you're right, they don't pay you what you pay them for a kWh. Sometimes it seems as though Nothing in this world is setup for the common man, the little guy, to succeed.

 

[meetyg]

Maybe for the inspection you just need to prove that you're not backfeeding to the grid.
As mentioned here, what ever loads you put on the grid after the meter is really no one's business but yours.

I have the same problems in my country: The power company requires you to have net metering and a contract in order to feed the grid.
The bigger problem is that they don't want to deal with your average Joe. They only agree to work with certified solar installers. They also require some minimum of around 10-15kwp of solar in order to even consider a contract.

As of now I have an old analog meter which works great with my existing 1kwp grid-tie system. But I am provisioning for the future when the power company will decide to install smart meters. That's why I recently got a hybrid inverter that can feed back to the grid. As long as they don't replace the meter, I can feed back any excess solar power. But if they do, I can just change the settings and use the battery to store any excess power not being used at the moment.
This is also good for backup when grid is down (although mine won't be full house loads, only critical loads).