Valence XP Super Thread

[Three6ty]

I have a Thunderstruck VC1 BMS and it does activate the internal Cell balancing. You will notice the blinking light go from 20 seconds to 5 seconds. I have also hooked up the USB connection and can read the cells voltages. I have also used the USB connections I built and connect to the Valance software and checked out the Cell voltages and temps. Read this entire thread and you will have all the answers you need. Thanks to Travis for all the work and posting answers. I have two of the U27 - 12xp batteries in my 5th wheel. Works great!

Is the VC1 something you hook up and forget about it or is it something you have to continually monitor and plug in and out. Im looking for something that is plug and play and forget about it.
Thanks in advance

 

[Ed Solar]

Is the VC1 something you hook up and forget about it or is it something you have to continually monitor and plug in and out. Im looking for something that is plug and play and forget about it.
Thanks in advance

That is what I do with mine. Once in a while I hook up the USB connection on the VC1 and read cell voltages, but I always monitor all my solar readings.

 

[JAKEPBROWN]

Well that ain't good -- also this isn't good... set my bench supply to 1A at 3.360V overnight last night to try and get this battery to balance and then this happened:
View attachment 24742

I have, yet another, failure flag for Under 2.3V. I think it is pretty conclusive evidence that Cell #2 is shot. Only when I crank up the amperage does that cell seem to increase in voltage. I'm no LiPo engineer -- but that doesn't look good.

It does appear that the "Reset Cnt" is related to how many times the PCBA has a "hard reset"... I unplugged it and plugged it back in again and that counter advanced -- so if you're looking at a battery that shows no signs of tampering with the rear cover (i.e. the sticker is in tact) this measures the number of times the voltage got so low that PCBA couldn't operate.

So just to be clear @Travis -- even on other batteries you've recovered there was no "Battery Failure" flag? Probably some very smart logic inside these batteries and I'd assume this is picking up on a pattern that isn't recoverable.

Hey there,

I was just wondering if you had messed with this any more? I just found out that I ran into the same issue you have... Cell 4 seemed to have just up-n-died Just wondering if you had been able to recover it.

 

[floridianman27]

Do you have relays connected in your system. How do you hook them up.

 

[Nainoa]

Hi all, so I've bought the Thunderstruck VC1 and am going to be connecting it to two contactors to control high/low voltage cut off. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas how to connect them in such a way as to not have them burn out the solar charge controller if the VC1 decides to disconnect them in full sun. I'll be charging using solar, the alternator from my van, and off of shore power.

Thanks!

 

[ericgrand]

I have a current setup in an electric car of 7 U27-12XP is serie, managed by an U-BMS LV. I have 2 cars but some batteries are sho, at least one with a 0V cell and the 6 others were exhibiting a low voltage of 2,8V (battery, not cell). Even if the took a charge, I'm short of one battery to test further.
I'm waiting for a second car to arrive, with maybe more luck with batteries...
In any case, even if I can salvage one full working set of batteries, I will be short for the second car.
Finding second hand batteries in France seems difficult, and considering the very low voltage of the 6 other, I'm afraid they will not last very long.

I'm considering keeping Valence technology (U-BMS + each battery BMS) but to use instead 280 Ah LFP cells, connected in series (28). I have just enough room in the battery compartment for such installation.
The choice to keep Valence system is due to the CANBUS connection of car charger, speed controller and VMU...

I'm questionning myself if the U-BMS may raise an error if suddenly all batteries increased from 138 Ah to 280Ah... Is the U-BMS only managing throught he voltage of each cell or is it also counting the in and out Ah through the internal shunt of each battery?
What are your thought on this "upgrade"?

Other option is to stick with near 138 Ah cells, so 152 are the best candidates...but if I can increase almost by 2 the range of the car, I would take it! It would also limit cells aging bi dividing C discharge by 2...

Thanks in advance for your inputs!

 

[tappah]

AZDelivery FTDI Adapter FT232RL USB naar TTL Serial voor 3.3V en 5V met eBook​

is this the right one ? Im not sure about the ft232rl chip

https://www.amazon.nl/AZDelivery-Ad...TJ1FDNB6WNRN&refRID=PDNT4943TJ1FDNB6WNRN&th=1


another option is my local electronics shop sells them for 40 euro and 50 euro with cable...
i maybe needing three..
i cant find the right one mentioned in this topic, in the netherlands..

 

[mannytheseacow]

Hey Manny....I'm still making my way through this thread so I'm not sure if anyone else has responded to you re your battery wiring. You will achieve better battery performance and balancing by moving your feeder cables to opposite ends of your battery bank.....i.e. Positive from top right battery, Negative from lower left battery. Even better would be to use separate cables for each battery and run them to a common bus.....be sure to keep all cables the same size and length and use a little dielectric grease on the connections to ensure a good low-resistance connection. You may find this link useful: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

Thanks, I thought I posted my setup early in this thread but maybe not. Yes, I wired to bus bars.

 

[WinnieVan]

Hey there,

I was just wondering if you had messed with this any more? I just found out that I ran into the same issue you have... Cell 4 seemed to have just up-n-died Just wondering if you had been able to recover it.

Nope. Cell #2 is dead as a doornail.

I cracked open the case and found water intrusion too (I was keeping this on the hush since I wanted to see what the person who sold me these batteries would say about replacing it first) -- these things are supposed to be IP56 (basically waterproof to a high pressure hose) so something was definitely wrong with mine. I legitimately charged it once and stored it in a cellar for 4 months -- when I came back the battery was at like 3.5V with no light flashing. I charged it at .5A and it never went green. That's when I decided to crack it open...




When I finally plugged it into the computer -- I noticed this battery had 24 on the "Reset Cnt" -- which I've determined only occurs when the battery voltage gets so low that the PCBA turns off - I think sub-5V. Given that the sticker was still sealed -- this means this battery had some pretty serious undervoltage events in its life -- no doubt due to the moisture intrusion I bet.

I put together a very compelling case to Thunderstruck and they basically told me to shove it. They said I can have a new one at their cost if they ever get more in -- that's not much of a consolation considering the price tag + shipping. I don't think they sold me a faulty battery on purpose -- and I can't hate them for sticking to their "no warranty" policy -- nor the fact that a lot can happen over four months -- but I know in my heart of hearts it isn't my fault this battery is toast and I didn't appreciate how they basically alleviated themselves of any blame for this situation given what I discovered.

Not to say don't work with them -- but I'm not a happy customer so I thought I'd share my story.

 

[tappah]

forget my last post.
i got a usb to rs485 converter pen drive from my local electronics shack for 7,45 euro
with ch340 chip. so found out that the ftdi chip is more expensive here in the netherlands.
YEAAH its working

 

[tappah]

I found out that lithiumwerks has a dutch CEO, so did some googeling...(he wants to make a big university campus here)
for some background info, product pdf and pics. you can browse these directories.

Index of /wp-content/uploads

 

[Nainoa]

Hi all, I'm trying to work out what the capacity of my 2 u27-12xp batteries is. I was hoping someone might be able to check my method for testing them. I have the 2 modules wired in parallel, and am testing them by running a space heater off of a renogy 2000w inverter/charger. I am measuring the current using a victron BMV 712. I have the space heater set on low which pulls about 775 watts as measured by the shunt. My method for assuming that the SOC is at 100% is basically just waiting for the charger to decide to stop charging. Once the charger has stopped its charging cycle, I check the cell voltage using a thunderstruck vc1. The highest resting voltage I've seen so far is about 3.4v/cell. I begin the test there and end it when I hit 3v/cell. When the test is over (which I must be doing wrong) the BMV reads that 182 amps have been used. Thats 65% of the capacity I should be getting! I realize these are used batteries, and probably won't deliver the full 138ah/module anymore, but that seems super low! Can anyone show me where I've gone wrong/how you should do a proper capacity test? Is my charger not charging them all the way up? The ebay seller says they should have >90% of life span on them still.

 

[Jblakeman]

Try a charger like this so you can precisely control volts and amps.

Each cell Negative (-) uses the adjacent cell's positive (+). In the photo below, black wire/arrow is cell 1 (-), blue wire/arrow is cell 1 (+) AND cell 2 (-).
Yellow wire/arrow is cell 3 (+) AND cell 4 (-). Brown wire/arrow is cell 4 (+).

EXAMPLE: If you want to bring up cell #4, put your power supply positive (+) to the brown wire and your power supply negative (-) to the yellow wire. Keep the battery connected to the valence software to monitor the cell voltages while you are charging.

Let's say your problem cell #4 is 3.3v and all your others are 3.5v - - - > set your power supply connected to cell #4 to 3.5v, maybe 1/4 amp, and monitor from there. Once the cells all come together the battery SOC shown in the valence software will jump to 100%. Note- it may take hours and hours for the low cell to come up to reach the others.

View attachment 14660

I have a question using the picture above. I have a progressive dynamics 9160AL charger that puts out 14.6 volts. I put one of my Valence u27-xp batteries on and began charging, the next day I found the battery completely drained below 1.5 volts. The light flashes green red and then blink red. I disconnected and let it sit. I am trying to trickle with .75 amp charger. I was impatient and wondering if I could get some answers by opening the side panel. On cell one: I get .001v cell two: .35v cell three .56v cell four: .65v. (I used the procedure from the picture above to get those voltages) I decided to check the cells for dead short, I switched my meter to continuity and got a beep on cell one. when I went to cell two, the green light began flashing, but no beep on any of the following cells. Any Ideas? do I have a short on cell one?

 

[ericgrand]

To the others out there who would like to connect to the BMS through CAN, purchase the following canbus adapter. It works out of the box with the valence canbus software.

CANUSB (USB to CAN converter)

USB to CAN converter

canusbshop.com

Hi!
Have you try any other adaptors, such as this one: https://www.amazon.fr/Adaptateur-co...WG2Q75SN6JD&psc=1&refRID=HQ3CFNH1PWG2Q75SN6JD
Do you think it could work?

 

[tappah]

Yesterday eve i took the dog for a late night walk, when i came back i noticed the two u24 12xp modules blinking green with 5 sec interval.
they were totaly disconnected. yess it was late but ...?? when i noticed it they did it about 30 sec or so.

 

[CamperDude]

What is the "WH Dschg" number in the software? Is that the ammount of Wh ever pushed through the battery in it's life?

How are people all happy over low cycle count numbers when the WH Dschg number is crazy high?

Would you divide the total WH Dschg number by the battery's rated kw/h for a real cycle count?

and no these batteries are not connected to each other(yet)

 

[Travis]

What is the "WH Dschg" number in the software? Is that the ammount of Wh ever pushed through the battery in it's life?

How are people all happy over low cycle count numbers when the WH Dschg number is crazy high?

Would you divide the total WH Dschg number by the battery's rated kw/h for a real cycle count?

and no these batteries are not connected to each other(yet)

Yes your interpretation of the wh discharge is correct.

The cycle count only gets triggered when it's a complete cycle.

Partial cycles degrade to a much less degree therefore doesn't trigger the cycle count.

There's normally a difference of 10x. So 60 on the cycle count but shows enough power on the wh counter to total 600 cycles.

 

[Travis]

I have a current setup in an electric car of 7 U27-12XP is serie, managed by an U-BMS LV. I have 2 cars but some batteries are sho, at least one with a 0V cell and the 6 others were exhibiting a low voltage of 2,8V (battery, not cell). Even if the took a charge, I'm short of one battery to test further.
I'm waiting for a second car to arrive, with maybe more luck with batteries...
In any case, even if I can salvage one full working set of batteries, I will be short for the second car.
Finding second hand batteries in France seems difficult, and considering the very low voltage of the 6 other, I'm afraid they will not last very long.

I'm considering keeping Valence technology (U-BMS + each battery BMS) but to use instead 280 Ah LFP cells, connected in series (28). I have just enough room in the battery compartment for such installation.
The choice to keep Valence system is due to the CANBUS connection of car charger, speed controller and VMU...

I'm questionning myself if the U-BMS may raise an error if suddenly all batteries increased from 138 Ah to 280Ah... Is the U-BMS only managing throught he voltage of each cell or is it also counting the in and out Ah through the internal shunt of each battery?
What are your thought on this "upgrade"?

Other option is to stick with near 138 Ah cells, so 152 are the best candidates...but if I can increase almost by 2 the range of the car, I would take it! It would also limit cells aging bi dividing C discharge by 2...

Thanks in advance for your inputs!

The BMS won't throw any errors. The state of charge will jump to a hundred percent when you fully charge the battery. most of the internal state of charge meters aren't even accurate anyway.
I've got batteries that claim to be discharging when there's nothing hooked up. Eventually they show a super-low state of charge then as they showed that low state-of-charge I can do a capacity test and it turns out they were still full.

during the capacity test the state of charge goes to zero but the voltage is fine. the BMS does not turn off the contactors until the battery is truly dead based off of cell voltage. The only flag the BMS will communicate is low or imbalanced state of charge. But it simply will not act upon that.

 

[Travis]

New to the Site but have been lurking for a while.
Im setting up a solar /battery system for my new Promaster van.
I have a 305w Solar panel
2 of the XP U27-12XP batteries
Kisae DMT 1250 DC to DC charger Controller - http://www.kisaepower.com/products/battery-chargers/model-dmt-1250/
* Allows me to charge from alternator as well.
Kisae ABSO 200Watt Inverter/ Charger

I like many of you was quick to buy these batteries at a good deal, and never knew the trouble of cell balancing, over charging and over heating. I figured that the Charge controller could take car of that.
Questions to the pros out there.

If I decide to run only one of the Valence Batteries? Do I need to worry about cell balancing and stimulating the Battery's BMS? My Kisae Charge controller has multiple user settings to set limits on charging and discharge.
Secondly If I decide to run both batteries in Parallel, keeping the system at 12V. What do I really need to worry about with these batteries?
Both have less than 400 charge cycles and are balanced at 13.3 V right now.

All of this Computer hook up and external BMS back and forth is confusing me more than I thought it would.

Bottom line.
If I just hook these up in Parallel with the equipment I have, without balancing the cells every month ( pain in the ass IMO), am I just going to limit some of my output, shorten the battery life, etc. Or would there be something more serious that could happen?
Same questions if I just run a single battery instead?

If I do need a Valence BMS, Can i just hook it up and forget about it and let it do its job or is it something I have to constantly monitor.
I am beginning to think it is more trouble than its worth to use these batteries

Thanks in advance.

Yes you'll need to occasionally balance the battery.

 

[CamperDude]

Yes your interpretation of the wh discharge is correct.

The cycle count only gets triggered when it's a complete cycle.

Partial cycles degrade to a much less degree therefore doesn't trigger the cycle count.

There's normally a difference of 10x. So 60 on the cycle count but shows enough power on the wh counter to total 600 cycles.

thanks!