Van Life - Sleeping Above / Near Batteries Inverter etc

[12VoltInstalls]

once you understand the placebo effect, you can get the benefit without even having to take the sugar pill

Funny

?

lead is toxic as heck and that's real and proven.

Only if you lick it or sniff the oxidized powder

 

[Sojourner1]

Yeah, you’re probably right.
What could possibly go wrong…

If not properly built. He found the error of his build the hard way.

 

[Batvette]

Funny


Only if you lick it or sniff the oxidized powder

Am I the only one who realizes that most of the drinking water supplies of the United States have long been stored in reservoirs and run through rivers that while protected from various contaminants, were open to recreational fishing and hunting? Which inherently involve the unavoidable loss of massive amounts of lead in the form of fishing weights and sinkers, and birdshot from shotgun shells?
Seems to me a dirty little secret, thousands of tons of lead sitting at the bottom of our water supplies leaching into our drinking water. For as long as I remember, cities Ive lived in had public lakes that often prohibited swimmimg because that might contaminate drinking water supplies. None of them prohibited fishing in fact it was usually encouraged as they made money selling permits.

 

[Batvette]

I'd be more wary of the inverter moreso than the batteries, especially transformer based units. By their very nature, they create strong (relatively) EM fields. My inverter is a low frequency unit with a 45lb transformer in it, and it buries the needle of my Trifield T2 em/ef/rf meter within 4 feet or so. Strong magnetic fields have been linked to detrimental physiological phenomea, but generally when there are two or more EM fields which are operating in the same area, from what I've read. You might find a little research into what are known as "kreb houses" interesting, where certain houses were studied (in Germany in particular of I'm not mistaken) which had an uncanny history of high rates of cancer and other ailments, and it was found that the common thread was that they sat over or very close to crossing veins of underground water. There was also, on a related note, research into those really twisted up, super knotty, lumpy trees you see every now and again which also found a very high correlation to crossing veins of underground water, which carry electromagnetic energy (which is, I'm pretty certain, why dowsing works). I used to live in a house that way back in the yard had one of those trees, and whenever I went over and spent any amount of time next to it, I'd always feel a little nauseous...that's what got me looking into the whole matter to begin with.

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Correct me if mistaken but Im of the understanding that dowsing has never been shown to be anything but luck and hucksterism. My father hired a dowser when I was young came up empty. James Randi had a few dowsers apply for his million dollar challenge they failed. Anyone?
(Im an open minded skeptic who long in the past strongly believed in some pseudoscience like telepathy and even witchcraft, over the years finding its all most likely BS. I attended a seminar/retreat in the 70s for Silva Method of Mind Control but didnt realize that we had simply been tricked into doing hot readings on ourselves. I still want to believe there is something to it, or dowsing, but it always fails the scientific method)

 

[Rocksnsalt]

If not properly built. He found the error of his build the hard way.

Agreed.
However… Oh snap that’s right, when everything is installed perfectly cells or components never have the potential to fail and create a cascade of events… or simply melt themselves down catastrophically.
Seriously I get what you’re saying but sometimes shift happens. And we don’t live in a consequence / shift happens free existence.

And fwiw I don’t obsess over this possibility, it’s just something that crossed my add mind.
All good here.

Ps When I do get to building the power system in my Sprinter, I will choose not sleep with any electronics humming with 6ft of my brain if possible.
I’m going to place it toward my feet and on the other side of the van, my feet are a train wreck anyway. ??‍

 

[Batvette]

Agreed.
However… Oh snap that’s right, when everything is installed perfectly cells or components never have the potential to fail and create a cascade of events… or simply melt themselves down catastrophically.
Seriously I get what you’re saying but sometimes shift happens. And we don’t live in a consequence / shift happens free existence.

And fwiw I don’t obsess over this possibility, it’s just something that crossed my add mind.
All good here.

Ps When I do get to building the power system in my Sprinter, I will choose not sleep with any electronics humming with 6ft of my brain if possible.
I’m going to place it toward my feet and on the other side of the van, my feet are a train wreck anyway. ??‍

Really. The one 280ah lifepo4 pack I built already and obssessed over every detail, nearly caught fire last month because the way I secured the negative out post to the enclosure allowed it to get a tad loose. The heat softened the ABS enclosure wall, allowing the post to get REALLY loose and REALLY HOT. The positive wire of the BT module cable moved while the vehicle was in motion, contacted that negative post inside the case, melted its insulation, the resulting short took out the BT module and BMS as well. I only knew because the BMS shut down discharge and wouldnt load the app.
Cascade of events could have ended worse, I had a spare BMS and BT.
Im a little scared about what I might miss next. Kind of like okay chernobyl is behind us, we learned our lesson, nuclear power is safe. Oops, now fukushima.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

involve the unavoidable loss of massive amounts of lead in the form of fishing weights and sinkers

Seems to me a dirty little secret, thousands of tons of lead sitting at the bottom of our water supplies leaching into our drinking water. For as long as I remember, cities Ive lived in had public lakes that often prohibited swimmimg because that might contaminate drinking water supplies.

Contamination has to do with bacteria and sloughing of skin cells.

Lead does not solvent or oxidize-leach like some might propose. Lead pipes and solder on the other hand- constantly being cleaned out and into a soluble and/or suspension- creates an immediate and measurable risk. 5 micrograms is all it takes to dull the mind of a two year old which limits brain development that is not recoverable by any amount of therapy long after the body has removed the lead from the bloodstream and safely stored it in the bones. It’s a permanent learning and behavior disability that is created. The lead in most public water systems is below epa ppm guidelines.

Nevertheless, lead fishing sinkers under a certain size are banned due to ingestion by birds/waterfowl and are commonly tungsten or steel. Waterfowl hunting requires use of bismuth, steel, or tungsten? by law I think everywhere in the USA.

 

[Batvette]

Contamination has to do with bacteria and sloughing of skin cells.

Lead does not solvent or oxidize-leach like some might propose. Lead pipes and solder on the other hand- constantly being cleaned out and into a soluble and/or suspension- creates an immediate and measurable risk. 5 micrograms is all it takes to dull the mind of a two year old which limits brain development that is not recoverable by any amount of therapy long after the body has removed the lead from the bloodstream and safely stored it in the bones. It’s a permanent learning and behavior disability that is created. The lead in most public water systems is below epa ppm guidelines.

Nevertheless, lead fishing sinkers under a certain size are banned due to ingestion by birds/waterfowl and are commonly tungsten or steel. Waterfowl hunting requires use of bismuth, steel, or tungsten? by law I think everywhere in the USA.

Yeah I know theyve gotten away from lead currently, just thinking about the past. When I fished as a kid I went through split shot weights like toilet paper. I also cant think of how many people are firing at waterfowl over waterways with boxes of 12g shells.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

dowsing, but it always fails the scientific method)

I think dowsing works. I’m not confident, however, that it is physically definable. I have family members that can do it. I haven’t tried it nor will I.

WARNING: if you can’t tolerate temporary thread departure or non-subject irrelevant fun diatribes please skip this post. ?

I’m confident that the physical world is only one component of a trifecta of things we actually have around us.

The second component is an order “higher” and for a lay person it is most easily described as the “quantum world.” This overlaps the physical world we know in many places - though I’m convinced we only partially know about the quantum/nuclear(sub-atomic) world. We publish papers suggesting a “God particle” and other forces in the atomic world we can calculate that they exist but haven’t been able to capture and define.

The Quantum world overlaps another world “we” generally don’t acknowledge in science. Things that are very real yet defy the scientific method as we are predominantly unaware or leave unacknowledged their existence. The quantum scientists meddle in the edges of it and even conclude things about time that are likely true but leave out the possibility that some things might travel faster than the speed of light or exist everywhere without being subject to time for example.
Ever ‘round a corner and suddenly brake to slow your speed and as the corner straightened realize there’s a traffic cop checking speeds? Or be startled when we ‘feel’ something and turn to discover someone has walked up behind you unnoticed? Or read studies exploring kirlian photography?
These are the fringe of a third component of our world that quantum science overlaps but very little concretely overlaps the physical world while running through it. Lets call it the Spiritual World.
Part of the Quantum and part of the Spiritual world basically act in the four dimensions but exist both within and outside the 5th through 10th dimensions. Some might define the ‘infinity’ level- a theoretical and probable 11th dimension- as ‘spiritual’ and to a large extent they may be correct as it is likely this third component of our world is occupied by ‘spiritual’ things- but there’s likely quite a bit of spiritual things that aren’t things at all; they are nearly subconscious and exist in our mind’s self awareness and transcendental identity (some may say “soul”) and can be thought of as the 11th dimension.

We actually know nothing tangible beyond the theoretical possibilities that dimensions 5 through 10 exist; science isn’t there yet. String theory simplifies it too much because it is ‘contained’ in string theory- and by definition the tenth - and logically 11th dimension is infinite. The 11th dimension cannot be conceived because it is infinite. It is more involved in our identity/awareness than our minds and exists in at least one more place than everywhere.

That non-physical and likely 11th dimension’ that supersedes gravity and time courses over, through, past, and beside all other possible dimensions is where dowsing comes from.

That’s my theory. Any other theory that sounds similar or bears resemblance is not my material and was conceived independently of my thoughts.

 

[Samsonite801]

I think dowsing works. I’m not confident, however, that it is physically definable. I have family members that can do it. I haven’t tried it nor will I.

WARNING: if you can’t tolerate temporary thread departure or non-subject irrelevant fun diatribes please skip this post. ?

I’m confident that the physical world is only one component of a trifecta of things we actually have around us.

The second component is an order “higher” and for a lay person it is most easily described as the “quantum world.” This overlaps the physical world we know in many places - though I’m convinced we only partially know about the quantum/nuclear(sub-atomic) world. We publish papers suggesting a “God particle” and other forces in the atomic world we can calculate that they exist but haven’t been able to capture and define.

The Quantum world overlaps another world “we” generally don’t acknowledge in science. Things that are very real yet defy the scientific method as we are predominantly unaware or leave unacknowledged their existence. The quantum scientists meddle in the edges of it and even conclude things about time that are likely true but leave out the possibility that some things might travel faster than the speed of light or exist everywhere without being subject to time for example.
Ever ‘round a corner and suddenly brake to slow your speed and as the corner straightened realize there’s a traffic cop checking speeds? Or be startled when we ‘feel’ something and turn to discover someone has walked up behind you unnoticed? Or read studies exploring kirlian photography?
These are the fringe of a third component of our world that quantum science overlaps but very little concretely overlaps the physical world while running through it. Lets call it the Spiritual World.
Part of the Quantum and part of the Spiritual world basically act in the four dimensions but exist both within and outside the 5th through 10th dimensions. Some might define the ‘infinity’ level- a theoretical and probable 11th dimension- as ‘spiritual’ and to a large extent they may be correct as it is likely this third component of our world is occupied by ‘spiritual’ things- but there’s likely quite a bit of spiritual things that aren’t things at all; they are nearly subconscious and exist in our mind’s self awareness and transcendental identity (some may say “soul”) and can be thought of as the 11th dimension.

We actually know nothing tangible beyond the theoretical possibilities that dimensions 5 through 10 exist; science isn’t there yet. String theory simplifies it too much because it is ‘contained’ in string theory- and by definition the tenth - and logically 11th dimension is infinite. The 11th dimension cannot be conceived because it is infinite. It is more involved in our identity/awareness than our minds and exists in at least one more place than everywhere.

That non-physical and likely 11th dimension’ that supersedes gravity and time courses over, through, past, and beside all other possible dimensions is where dowsing comes from.

That’s my theory. Any other theory that sounds similar or bears resemblance is not my material and was conceived independently of my thoughts.

WARNING: if you can’t tolerate temporary thread departure or non-subject irrelevant fun diatribes please skip this post. ?


Or have ever heard of quantum entanglement?

I'm starting into this movie now:

Time of the Sixth Sun

Join 'Time of the Sixth Sun' in a transformative journey through our enlightening documentary film and series, exploring global consciousness, spiritual awakening, and the wisdom of indigenous elders. Dive into a cinematic experience that unveils a new way to walk lightly on Earth, embracing unity,

www.timeofthesixthsun.com

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Or have ever heard of quantum entanglement

Yup.

Ever heard of having a particle essentially exist in two places at the same time?

“Time of the Sixth Sun:”
I’m not really into the ‘conscious’ metaphysical enlightenment stuff. Or gypsy paganism for that matter. Those are the original grifters imho.
Not that I’m anti-spiritual, either! I’m just anti superstition anti fortune teller con-artist. The appearance of spirituality but lacking the power therein.

 

[Sbrossard]

LiFePo4 is safe enough for RV use, we have been running a 240ah pack under our bed for 3 years, it is fused on the stud and is enclosed with ventilation ports to reduce heat.

I'm am upgrading our system to 608ah as soon as the new cells arrive and have not issues with using the previous pack off-road

As far as i know there aren't any health issues, i dear say that our phones cause more issues than a battery pack.

but i'm not a doctor, nor does it concern me, i'm more likey to be killed by a road accident

So is there a hum when in use or charging?

 

[AstroBob]

What about that fuel tank under the RV and it's potential to leak and or off-gas? Wouldn't that be a greater possible hazard than lifepo4 cells?
Not to mention the obvious hazards from propane, etc. Then there's the possible off gassing from manufactured materials used in RC's.

 

[Hedges]

Gasoline and propane are stored outside the passenger compartment. Old technology, known risks.
Lithium batteries can and do catch fire, and people here have seen that occur inside a van.
Often these batteries are used inside. So something to hold back the fire, spill combustion gasses outside, trigger an alarm, would be good for safety. You need the opportunity for escape without injury.

 

[AstroBob]

B\\

Gasoline and propane are stored outside the passenger compartment. Old technology, known risks.
Lithium batteries can and do catch fire, and people here have seen that occur inside a van.
Often these batteries are used inside. So something to hold back the fire, spill combustion gasses outside, trigger an alarm, would be good for safety. You need the opportunity for escape without injury.

Well, yeah, but considering the threat level, I wonder what is the cause of most RV fatalities? CO? fire caused by propane? what would be the more likely scenario, a lithium fire or a fuel tank or propane fire? Not that you wouldn't want to consider all hazards, just sayin'

 

[Samsonite801]

B\\

Well, yeah, but considering the threat level, I wonder what is the cause of most RV fatalities? CO? fire caused by propane? what would be the more likely scenario, a lithium fire or a fuel tank or propane fire? Not that you wouldn't want to consider all hazards, just sayin'

FUN FACTS:
Propane is heavier than air (one molecule has 3 carbon atoms), so it tends to 'pool up' down low on the floor/ground level when it leaks out.
Natural gas is lighter than air (one molecule has 1 carbon atom), so it tends to float up high, to ceiling level, or beyond (if it has a way to vent upwards and out).

When I was training for ASE F1 CNG certification, I learned from the NFPA 52 book that the biggest advantage to NG is that it is inherently much safer than gasoline and propane, because it just floats away if it has a way to vent upwards. Gasoline leaks tend to pool up, linger, and take hours to evaporate and the vapors to dissipate (which is very dangerous at an accident scene).

Propane tends to pool up too (invisible), but much less so than gasoline (because it is vapor), wind can blow it away horizontally and such, but inside of a garage or something, propane can linger down by the floor level for hours (like fills from the bottom, up), where NG will float up naturally, and many cases, simply escape through the attic door seams.

Since I had worked in CNG installations on vehicles (alt-fuel for powering internal combustion engines), I had always wondered if someday an interest would ever spark up for its use in the RV world for utility fuel.

CNG stores as a vapor, it is less dense than propane so it won't condense into a liquid (LNG) unless it is cryogenically frozen, so the idea is, in order to get enough volume (BTU storage) on a vehicle, it is stored at normal ambient temperature as vapor, at 3000 or 3600 psi to get enough BTU volume for practical use.

Of course if it was ever used on an RV for utility services, all of the appliances would have to be re-jetted for NG, and then you are tied to the CNG distribution network which is generally not as available as LPG (in the USA at least), especially RV parks. So there is probably very little incentive for the RV industry to change the current trajectory. But NG is cleaner burning and safer than propane, it is just not as compact in storage as propane, making it less convenient as an alternative.

When I had CNG on my old truck, I always parked it in the garage, and as a precaution, I removed the attic door cover, just in case if my CNG ever got a leak, it could easily just float away (since the house's roof also has roof attic vents too)...

 

[AstroBob]

So, from what I have read/watched, the safety risks for lifepo4 are from cell puncture or short circuit. Is this true? Is out gassing almost nil, or could there be any possible perils from that? I'm guessing minimal. Lifepo4 batteries aren't known to spontaneously combust, are they?

I haven't yet heard of any RV involved lifepo4/lithium fires, but I'm sure they might exist. Interesting.

 

[wholybee]

This is sort of relevant:

Do Cell Phones Cause Brain Tumors? | Do Cell Phones Cause Brain Tumors? | By Veritasium | Facebook

Do Cell Phones Cause Brain Tumors?

fb.watch

As it might pertain to LiFePO4. Under normal use, LiFePO4 does not vent any gas, nor does it emit any radiation. You might be in close proximity to it, but what exactly are you concerned about being exposed to. Perhaps a very low level magnetic field from electrons moving through wires, but no more so than just sitting just about anywhere on the planet.

Cell phones do not cause brain cancer. Nor do large power transformers. And being in proximity to a LiFePO4 battery is not harmful either. At least with cell phones and emf there is an identifiable mechanism that might cause harm (but has been shown to not) but will LiFePO4 you simply are not being exposed to anything.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

the biggest advantage to NG is that it is inherently much safer than gasoline and propane, because it just floats away if it has a way to vent upwards

That’s only one aspect. Natural gas is combustible in a wide range of concentrations- closer to gasoline behavior. Propane only ignites at a narrow concentration around 5% to air.
There was a house near where I grew up. Something happened with the kitchen stove. Father came home, opened the door- apparently there was a static discharge opening the door? He lived, and while the house had surpringly limited fire damege it blew out all the windows and the man suffered burns and had landed in the neighbor’s yard. Propane feels kinder to me.

 

[Samsonite801]

That’s only one aspect. Natural gas is combustible in a wide range of concentrations- closer to gasoline behavior. Propane only ignites at a narrow concentration around 5% to air.
There was a house near where I grew up. Something happened with the kitchen stove. Father came home, opened the door- apparently there was a static discharge opening the door? He lived, and while the house had surpringly limited fire damege it blew out all the windows and the man suffered burns and had landed in the neighbor’s yard. Propane feels kinder to me.

Well I did say 'if it has a way to vent upwards'...

We had a house in our area that exploded due to a natural gas leak not even originating inside the home. The leak was some distance away but traveled underground (from the area where the leak originated) along the outside of the pipe into the basement of a house and filled the basement up with natural gas. After they had thought they had the leak resolved, the Questar Gas employee and the homeowner went into the house into the basement, attempting to light the pilot light again on the hot water heater, which blew up the whole house. Yeah it was a tragic story:

Explosion Destroys Saratoga Springs Home

Crews in Saratoga Springs tonight have found the bodies of two people caught inside a house when it exploded.

www.ksl.com

For sure with any fuel you have to know that it is dangerous when the conditions are right for combustion. The houses they build today are usually sealed fairly tight and don't vent very well I suppose. I always wondered why they never smelled the mercaptan (sulfur rotten egg smell), but perhaps they both had colds and didn't have strong sense of smell that day or something.