Van solar panels charging BOTH portable power station 'generator' and leisure battery?

[Windnsalsa]

Hi, having a challenging time much info regarding below scenario. I am preparing to build soon for full time minivan camping. What are possible ways to charge a 200a agm house battery and a 300wh Golab "power generator" (built-in mppt, 65w/22v max solar input charging ) ? Could the station be permanently connected to existing setup components (2x100w rigid panels, standalone 60a mppt solar charge controller, fuse box ; no standalone inverter ATM) and be charge simultaneously or possibly after leisure battery is topped off? Alternatively, once leisure battery is topped off, the panels can be disconnected from external 60a SCC and then connect to station? General load would be 12v 28gal fridge, 12v adapter connected laptop, phone, little led lighting, weekly AC charging of hair clippers. Thanks!

 

[Q-Dog]

Is all of this stuff 12 volt? Does the power generator have a 12 volt input?

 

[Windnsalsa]

Is all of this stuff 12 volt? Does the power generator have a 12 volt input?

Yes, mostly 12v, except ATM would be weekly AC charging of hair clipper/razor. Station does have 12v input

 

[Q-Dog]

So, what happens if you plug the power station charge cable into the house 12 volt system? That should be no different than charging from a car 12 volt outlet.

 

[Windnsalsa]

So, what happens if you plug the power station charge cable into the house 12 volt system? That should be no different than charging from a car 12 volt outlet.

I was thinking of the station having charging energy directly from the panels. Connecting to 12v socket would be charging via house battery system.

I was planning the battery system having its own 12 socket/usb/usb-c switch console and use the station when needed, whether in van or remote.

I guess I am wanting to minimize unnecessary house battery usage as a good practice

 

[BlueFox]

I was thinking of the station having charging energy directly from the panels. Connecting to 12v socket would be charging via house battery system.

I was planning the battery system having its own 12 socket/usb/usb-c switch console and use the station when needed, whether in van or remote.

I guess I am wanting to minimize unnecessary house battery usage as a good practice

If you plug it in when the house batteries are full and not taking much charge current, the power will come directly from the solar panels. Assuming that the panels can supply 100% of the needed power at least.

The other option that could work is get a second charge controller hooked to the same set of panels, and use it only for charging the power bank. That way it would only pull power from the panels and not from the house batteries.

 

[Windnsalsa]

...get a second charge controller hooked to the same set of panels...

The station has a built-in mppt controller

 

[fratermus]

If you plug it in when the house batteries are full and not taking much charge current, the power will come directly from the solar panels. Assuming that the panels can supply 100% of the needed power at least.

That is the simplest answer. Wait for late absorption on the AGM then plug in the box. If OP didn't already own a (60A!) controller it'd also be easy to get a controller that trips a relay when Absorption is complete.

My kludge for starting an opportunity circuit uses a LVD that fires up just below Vfloat --> timer set long enough to reach Vabs and let battery demand drop off enough to allow other loads --> relay. The LVD shuts down the circuit below 12.9v so the circuit drops out as the sun sets.

I would encourage OP to add an isolator to help charge the AGM, because IMO 200w is rarely enough to keep 200Ah of AGM healthy.

 

[Windnsalsa]

That is the simplest answer. Wait for late absorption on the AGM then plug in the box. If OP didn't already own a (60A!) controller it'd also be easy to get a controller that trips a relay when Absorption is complete.

My kludge for starting an opportunity circuit uses a LVD that fires up just below Vfloat --> timer set long enough to reach Vabs and let battery demand drop off enough to allow other loads --> relay. The LVD shuts down the circuit below 12.9v so the circuit drops out as the sun sets.

I would encourage OP to add an isolator to help charge the AGM, because IMO 200w is rarely enough to keep 200Ah of AGM healthy.

a little advanced concept for me of what you stated. But regarding isolator, its on my future shopping list...bec I usually look for used sale stuff on craigslist...budget minded.

OT, I had 20A controller in mind but found a used 60A EpEver for a great price. So, my general plan was never to load anywhere near what is supported by this 60A controller. So, would I still need to use a 60A [or a higher from the * 125% ?] fuse between controller & battery or can I get away with a lower rated fuse?

I have not done any setup yet but I have some concerns about the used 2x100 panels sufficiently keeping up the used 200ah agm. A 3rd 100 panel might be next year. I just need to experience this year and determine any upgrade later.

 

[Windnsalsa]

deleted...

 

[fratermus]

a little advanced concept for me of what you stated. But regarding isolator, its on my future shopping list...bec I usually look for used sale stuff on craigslist...budget minded.

A respectable constant duty solenoid can be $25 + wiring/fusing costs. Let's say $50 new.

OT, I had 20A controller in mind but found a used 60A EpEver for a great price. So, my general plan was never to load anywhere near what is supported by this 60A controller. So, would I still need to use a 60A [or a higher from the * 125% ?] fuse between controller & battery or can I get away with a lower rated fuse?

No real downside to the 60A other than size (physically larger) and perhaps a slightly higher parasitic draw.

AFAIK the fuse between the controller and battery would be based on wiring size between controller and battery rather than controller output. I will let more qualified folks chime in on that.

 

[SomebodyInGNV]

… My kludge for starting an opportunity circuit uses a LVD that fires up just below Vfloat --> timer set long enough to reach Vabs and let battery demand drop off enough to allow other loads --> relay. The LVD shuts down the circuit below 12.9v so the circuit drops out as the sun sets. …

My novice brain can't visualize this. Can you elaborate?

 

[fratermus]

Sorry, I wasn't being very clear.

hopefully clearer example using Absorption and round numbers

Low Voltage Disconnect (standalone or LOAD output of solar charge controller) set to 13.0v (just above charged/resting voltage) and reconnect at 14.5v (Absorption).

• 7am - batts are deeply discharged. LVD still off from the previous night.
• 10am - bank voltage has risen to Absorption voltage. LVD circuit comes on and powers the timer, which has a 60 minute countdown (for example). We want to wait a while so battery current acceptance tapers and we have extra power available.
• 11am - 60-minute timer finished, timer powers up the relay that feeds the opportunity circuit. Opportunity loads run.
• 3pm - the system drops to float, the circuit is still powered since we are above the 13.0v cutoff. Opportunity loads still run.
• 7pm - the sun goes down (or bank voltage is otherwise depressed to 13.0v) the LVD kills power to the timer (which kills power to the relay) to keep from discharging the bank with optional loads.

Timer duration is the tricky bit. Too short and the batts are competing for current with the opportunity loads. Too long and excess solar power is "wasted" (not generated). I admit it's crude but it has the advantages of working well enough, being cheap, and being configurable.

In practice I use this for charging the laptop/phones/kindles, donating power to neighboring campers who have less, heating water, etc. These loads can be run without affecting the bank's SoC since it cuts off automagically when it gets close.

 

[Windnsalsa]

A respectable constant duty solenoid can be $25 + wiring/fusing costs. Let's say $50 new...

Oh ok, thats the manual way. I've been waiting for a used deal on a smart isolator. We'll see

 

[fratermus]

In the typical setup the solenoid is triggered when you turn the key to start the vehicle, so it's as automatic as any other. Here are the basic types I am aware of:

* manual: battery switch that you turn when you want to connect/disconnect the batts. (I'd totally forget to do it)
* automatic: solenoid - turn the ignition key and it connects the two; turn off the vehicle and they are separated. Triggered by ignition circuit.
* automatic: Voltage-sensing relays (VSR), which are typically solenoids with a voltage-detection function to trigger the connection when the chassis side voltage is elevated above 13.4v or whatever. In practice the difference between the VSR and solenoid is a couple of seconds delay after the engine starts before the connection is made. They start around $50 + wiring and a marine-grade (Blue Sea) one is about $80. Some vendors in this space name their isolators "smart" although I'm not sure it means anything in this context.
* automatic: DC-DC chargers, usually voltage-boosting, current-limiting, and multi-stage <-- these are the ones I'd call "smart". You can get a used (open box) 20A renogy DC-DC charger from amazon for less than $100 although $250 is a common price point {for DC-DC in general}. These are also typically triggered by the ignition circuit.

IMO there are fewer gotchas with plain solenoids than with VSRs when mixed with other charging sources, and a plain solenoid is more likely to allow self-jumpstarting. Having said that, I personally use a VSR (this one) and have no regrets.

{added clarification to b2b pricing}

 

[Windnsalsa]

In the typical setup the solenoid is triggered when you turn the key to start the vehicle, so it's as automatic as any other. Here are the basic types I am aware of:

* manual: battery switch that you turn when you want to connect/disconnect the batts. (I'd totally forget to do it)
* automatic: solenoid - turn the ignition key and it connects the two; turn off the vehicle and they are separated. Triggered by ignition circuit.
* automatic: Voltage-sensing relays (VSR), which are typically solenoids with a voltage-detection function to trigger the connection when the chassis side voltage is elevated above 13.4v or whatever. In practice the difference between the VSR and solenoid is a couple of seconds delay after the engine starts before the connection is made. They start around $50 + wiring and a marine-grade (Blue Sea) one is about $80. Some vendors in this space name their isolators "smart" although I'm not sure it means anything in this context.
* automatic: DC-DC chargers, usually voltage-boosting, current-limiting, and multi-stage <-- these are the ones I'd call "smart". You can get a used (open box) 20A renogy DC-DC charger from amazon for less than $100 although $250 is a common price point {for DC-DC in general}. These are also typically triggered by the ignition circuit.

IMO there are fewer gotchas with plain solenoids than with VSRs when mixed with other charging sources, and a plain solenoid is more likely to allow self-jumpstarting. Having said that, I personally use a VSR (this one) and have no regrets.

{added clarification to b2b pricing}

Thanks for a basic comparison.That helps!

 

[Windnsalsa]

SORRY to unbury this thread...how do I connect the station to the existing 12v house battery setup? I have a fuse block and will be getting a gang switch panel [cig sockets, usb] Below are various input options.

1. cig socket [ 3a fuse?]
2. 5.5x2.1mm...how?
3. usb-c PD 30 or 60w...how? I understand usb-2 or 3, but don't see much discussions about wiring PD. Would it be something like this which is only 18w usb-c. No where near PD 60w input.
https://mictuning.com/36w-usb-c-pd-...eter-for-truck-motorcycle-car-boat_p0538.html

---Golabs r300 station:

https://www.amazon.com/Jackery-Portable-Power-Station-Generator/dp/B07D29QNMJ/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=jackery+240&qid=1619211774&sr=8-3

---Input options: Inputs (MPPT 10.8-23.5V), I believe 3A:
++DC input: 5.5*2.1mm
++AC wall socket (45W);
++Car charger (12V);
++Solar panel charge;
++PD 60W input