Vertical Bi-Facial Solar Panels, Solar Fencing (not portray)

[eXodus]

Hello,

On the topic of using space more efficient:


I found these article:

New Research Says Vertical Solar Panels Have Improved Performance - CleanTechnica

Researchers in Germany claim that vertical solar panels can produce electricity over more hours of the day.

cleantechnica.com

France’s first vertical bifacial solar power plant

French energy company Compagnie Nationale du Rhône is considering deploying vertical PV installations along 400 km of its dikes. A first 104 kW project was deployed at the Sablons dike, in the Isere department.

www.pv-magazine.com

I just did a few rough calculations, and with reduce amount in investment in mounting hardware - it could be a really interesting alternative.
Just stick a few 4x4 posts in the ground and screw panels against them. For the amount you save in hardware you can buy more panels.

Could use places which had been suitable for solar. Much less real estate needed.

What do you think?

 

[Bluedog225]

I think it can absolutely be part of someone’s generation portfolio. Fatten the curve. And a good/great use of bi-facial which have had a tepid welcome in the market.

Installation would be very simple. Pound in a u-channel fence post and attach.

Why not.

 

[SoakedUp]

I wonder if wind loads on the panel face would be of concern? My property gets some crazy 60-70 mph gust. Laying flat or angled a bit it’s not much concern. 90* vertical panels might rip apart though.

 

[Bluedog225]

Just like a wood fence. I suspect panels are stronger, maybe.

 

[SoakedUp]

Just like a wood fence. I suspect panels are stronger, maybe.

Weird. I’d suspect a 1 inch thick cedar wood picket to be way stronger than a 3x5 sheet of glass that’s only a couple cm thick.

 

[littleharbor2]

Weird. I’d suspect a 1 inch thick cedar wood picket to be way stronger than a 3x5 sheet of glass that’s only a couple cm thick.

Tempered glass is some pretty tough stuff.

 

[Solar Guppy]

What do you think?

Academics funding is from publicly funded research, most of which never moves into actual common use. Also the most visionary aren't in government funded research, it almost always comes from industry / start-ups which pays 10-100x more for the talent that comes up with the concepts / technology.

I suspect that the latitude would have a great impact in this concept as further from the equator the sun angle increases, then one has two angles that are not optimized yielding lower harvest vs one with traditional mounts, but that's my 60 second thought on the matter.

 

[schmism]

people typically dont privacy fence off sections of property out in the middle of the open. Considering most neighborhoods, turning the fences into solar pannels would = mostly shade and no real impact vs the acres and acres of rooftop that point at the sun.

So makes a great photo, is almost useless in a practical environment.

 

[eXodus]

the most visionary aren't in government funded research, it almost always comes from industry / start-ups which pays 10-100x more for the talent that comes up with the concepts / technology.

You are talking USA.

Research in Europe is different. Industry doesn't pay 10-100x. Maybe 2x if you are lucky. That's why a lot of European talent is leaving for US and Asia. but that's off topic.

Just saying that research in Europe is very practical and likely to be implemented. I got my name on a few research papers which made into law and I'm a nobody.

people typically dont privacy fence off sections of property out in the middle of the open. Considering most neighborhoods, turning the fences into solar pannels would = mostly shade and no real impact vs the acres and acres of rooftop that point at the sun.

So makes a great photo, is almost useless in a practical environment.

What about large property? Rural, there must be millions of miles of fences.

 

[SoakedUp]

What about large property? Rural, there must be millions of miles of fences.

The property in which this would be implemented also tend to have the space for a large array. Also, seems like keeping all the panels in a grouped array helps minimize wire runs rather than miles of fence line.

 

[Solar Guppy]

There is much in the research that is missing and overall very myopic, very typical of public university funded research.

If one looks at the images in the first post, take a look at the footings, those are massive for just a pair of panels, and the reason is most panels are mounted 0-30 degrees, when you mount them at 90 degrees the effective vertical wind load surface area would be more than 4x a typical mounting situation, not even discussed in the summary. Additionally, there is a complete lack of cross bracing, so loads from an subsidence of the footers is directly on the panel frames and will certainly over time fracture the mounted panels.

Then you have the efficiency losses, which will be major in the wiring, that babble talk about using area between panels for framing ( as long as the plants are shorter than the base of the mounts ? ), the costs of materials ( wire, concrete, upsize mounting/bracing/labor to install )alone in the concrete makes this a 2nd grade math fail.

This is what accademia does best, pumps put useless research so the machine keeps being feed from government funded grants. In the real world, unless all factors say it should be built, it isn't. And this isn't a USA only issue, it is how higher-ed works.

 

[rhino]

It looks like they aren't even in the ground but have only the cement ballast? Maybe pounding some galvanized steel pipe in the ground would also work well? Would work really well in higher latitudes where the vertical orientation would work well in winter and not have to worry about clearing snow off!

 

[eXodus]

There is much in the research that is missing and overall very myopic, very typical of public university funded research.

If one looks at the images in the first post, take a look at the footings, those are massive for just a pair of panels, and the reason is most panels are mounted 0-30 degrees, when you mount them at 90 degrees the effective vertical wind load surface area would be more than 4x a typical mounting situation, not even discussed in the summary. Additionally, there is a complete lack of cross bracing, so loads from an subsidence of the footers is directly on the panel frames and will certainly over time fracture the mounted panels.

Then you have the efficiency losses, which will be major in the wiring, that babble talk about using area between panels for framing ( as long as the plants are shorter than the base of the mounts ? ), the costs of materials ( wire, concrete, upsize mounting/bracing/labor to install )alone in the concrete makes this a 2nd grade math fail.

This is what accademia does best, pumps put useless research so the machine keeps being feed from government funded grants. In the real world, unless all factors say it should be built, it isn't. And this isn't a USA only issue, it is how higher-ed works.

Here the original German Picture and Article:

Vertikale Solaranlagen senken Bedarf an Gasimporten und Stromspeichern

Neue Studie von Leipziger Forschenden in „Smart Energy“ veröffentlicht

www.htwk-leipzig.de

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666955222000211?via%3Dihub

Maybe pounding some galvanized steel pipe in the ground would also work well?

No concrete, that is what the Germans did. They took the French idea with the concrete footings and simplified it.
Just driving pipes into the ground.

Would work really well in higher latitudes where the vertical orientation would work well in winter and not have to worry about clearing snow off!

true, that system is nothing for close at the equator, more for seasonal climates where the sun is flatter on the horizon.

 

[rhino]

Wonder if these are rigidly attached to the posts or have some flex so it avoids directly putting the pressure of posts shifting in ground or from wind. I was somewhat thinking this is neat idea for small scale at least if I just wanted 5-10 bi-facials mounted.

 

[eXodus]

Wonder if these are rigidly attached to the posts or have some flex so it avoids directly putting the pressure of posts shifting in ground or from wind. I was somewhat thinking this is neat idea for small scale at least if I just wanted 5-10 bi-facials mounted.

the research paper suggest a 25/50/25 mix of East-West Regular Flat and South-North oriented panels.

I'm also considering putting together a test with a few Bi-Facial.
Where I'm the predominant wind direction changes, so I'm not worried about ground shifting. One day it will be one direction the next day the other.

The thicker the pole is the less flex - and the more surface it has to push against the ground. I've built many fences - and gates (which are heavy) and get a lot of wind pressure. My gate is 14 wide and 4 ft tall. and is supported by a single 6x6 post - A 6ft long and 3.3 ft wide panel with posts on both sides shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Solar Guppy]

The thicker the pole is the less flex - and the more surface it has to push against the ground. I've built many fences - and gates (which are heavy) and get a lot of wind pressure. My gate is 14 wide and 4 ft tall. and is supported by a single 6x6 post - A 6ft long and 3.3 ft wide panel with posts on both sides shouldn't be an issue.

I used the ironridge online tool and for my building code is which is 140 mph, anything over 30 degree of tilt can't be meet with their racking, period. Wind load is a cubic function and having a panel 90 degrees is maximum surface area load to wind

Using a yard fence post isn't science, one needs to do the math for dynamic load, allowed deflection and materials for something that will be in place for decades.

 

[cs1234]

With all that space they have around them in the pictures, they just need to have a sturdy hinge or spring of some sort.. let them blow around as need be..

Think of the spring on a door stop, except bigger.. or a suspension spring from a car.. boing!

 

[eXodus]

spring of some sort

haha now we got a super fast easy vertical solar system which can be deployed in minutes. Just add water.

 

[cs1234]

@eXodus

Yours would be amazingly awesome and fast to deploy.. I hadn't thought of one like that. If kept up on, a thing of full of water is great from a rapid deployment standpoint, but long term I'm not sure. A bucket full of rocks for ballast doesn't blow away from a single hole in it, whereas one hole and all that water goes bye bye.

I was originally thinking of a bouncy horse when I thought of it.. perhaps just weighted down with cinder blocks or a ballast tub full of rocks instead of actually in the ground. If it could be kept pretty small diameter, since it sways with the wind instead of outright fighting it, maybe a regular handheld auger and a bag of concrete or two could do it per panel.. or some of those anchor screws.

One of these could bounce in all directions, whichever way the wind wants to go.. presumably they wouldn't even hit each other (much) because they would all go the same direction in the wind.

 

[cs1234]

@eXodus

Now you've got me looking at those sign holders with springs and water bins. Too bad they cost so much and probably aren't made for super long term element exposure. With a larger base or some tethers helping to hold them down they would possibly work. Being as they have wheels and such on them, the inspectors would have a hard time arugin they aren't mobile if you didn't permanently wire them.

 

[eXodus]

I was originally thinking of a bouncy horse when I thought of it.. perhaps just weighted down with cinder blocks or a ballast tub full of rocks instead of actually in the ground. If it could be kept pretty small diameter, since it sways with the wind instead of outright fighting it, maybe a regular handheld auger and a bag of concrete or two could do it per panel.. or some of those anchor screws.

instead of water tank you could just have flat plate where you can stack cinder blocks on both sides.
concrete blocks are 8x16x4 and about 33lbs heavy

A solar Panel is 40 wide, if you have a grid 40/8 inch you could have 5 bricks on each side - so a total 10 concrete bricks for one panel. Cost about $2 each Roughly 330lbs total.

So the ballast would be about $20 bucks, If that's not enough heavy you can stack another layer. $40

Two rails on both sides, $30-50
two springs ??
And few L-metal pieces to where the blocks sit in. Plus welding....

Yeah we are getting in price territory where it doesn't make sense anymore. You can't spend more then $50-100 for installing one panel.
Would be fun, but not economical.

Just ramming metal sing posts in the ground - You can do a lot faster and is something road sign contractors and fence builders do all day

 

[cs1234]

Doesn't seem like it should really cost that much, but it's a pretty niche product, big spring attached to a base or screw for anchoring attached to a bracket with arms that you could clamp or slide a solar panel into. For easy distribution, the arms that go up for the solar panel to brace into/against would need to be sourced locally, ideally, or at least be short enough to ship cheaply with it.

Oh well, we will just keep dreaming and being squashed by reality.

Something like this, but obviously much, much cheaper, for the base.

Imagine all that flopping in the wind PV cable.. lol.

 

[Mithril]

Something like this could be really good for people who rent or simply have terrible roof options (or not enough viable roof).

There's actually been a few successful "real world" tests mixing similar ideas with farming of plants that prefer some shade, iirc.
As someone whos renting currently, I certain am open to things that are non destructive or minimally invasive. It also snows here so it seems like a good match lol.

 

[mikeinnyc]

Actually, this is F$%king brilliant idea! I live in a separate country of NYC and have no chance when factoring in roof space due to Firedept egress, and my Victorian anti-solar steep pitch design. I'd be willing to take this one step further and make this quickly removable. Especially during rioters, one block away from me (yup must factor this in too), and high winds. I definitely have plenty of room and sunlight with a fence facing south. Hell, I may even put a barbed-wired top with a rapid-fire turret on my solar panels just in case. Yeah I'm joking Definitely the best idea for solar minus the turrets ?

 

[sunsurfer]

I have been seriously thinking of building one. I have the perfect place and those bifacial panels can be had cheap.

I like the idea of more solar facing west in the evening during the AC months and more facing the east in the winter for morning heat with the heat pumps.

My other idea was to do an East/West facing A frame mini barn/equipment cover.