Victron 100/20, Load is not turning on.

[rcampbellwd]

Hello,

First time poster, and been looking for something that I am probably not phrasing correctly.

I am part of a small boutique sign shop and we been dealing with one sign we built backin 2019. It is so far our first, but hopefully not last solar powered sign. I am useing a Victron SmartSolar Charger MPPT 100/20 48v. About a month ago I purchased a new battery, the client threw on a Optima Blue Top Marine and it lasted about 9 months and just recently started to drain faster, and so we picked up a 12.8v 100 Ah LiFePO4 Battery and installed it and left after making sure it lit up on the ground, attached the panels and went about our month. I went back a month later and the battery is fully charged though the app. but now it won't turn on the load, it says it is on though the app, but the lights are not coming on. I can disconnect and go straight to the battery and they are lit up. so I know the wiring is correct,

-Is there a way to test why the load is not doing what it supposed to do?
-I need the sign to be on from 5pm to 10pm 7 days a week, is there a way to do this? I was thinking useing a 12v timer and cobbling up something to fix it but I rather
use the MPPT Controller like we have been doing.
- Is the MPPT Controller to blame and just replace it?

I am sorry if I dont know the correct words, or phrases. I am still learning. so please be patient.

-Ryan Campbell
Well Design Premium Signage

​

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Hello,

First time poster, and been looking for something that I am probably not phrasing correctly.

I am part of a small boutique sign shop and we been dealing with one sign we built backin 2019. It is so far our first, but hopefully not last solar powered sign. I am useing a Victron SmartSolar Charger MPPT 100/20 48v. About a month ago I purchased a new battery, the client threw on a Optima Blue Top Marine and it lasted about 9 months and just recently started to drain faster, and so we picked up a 12.8v 100 Ah LiFePO4 Battery and installed it and left after making sure it lit up on the ground, attached the panels and went about our month. I went back a month later and the battery is fully charged though the app. but now it won't turn on the load, it says it is on though the app, but the lights are not coming on. I can disconnect and go straight to the battery and they are lit up. so I know the wiring is correct,

-Is there a way to test why the load is not doing what it supposed to do?
-I need the sign to be on from 5pm to 10pm 7 days a week, is there a way to do this? I was thinking useing a 12v timer and cobbling up something to fix it but I rather
use the MPPT Controller like we have been doing.
- Is the MPPT Controller to blame and just replace it?

I am sorry if I dont know the correct words, or phrases. I am still learning. so please be patient.

-Ryan Campbell
Well Design Premium Signage

​

Load port is subject to a max continuous load of 20A. Running at/near/over that limit can cause it to fail. If there's any surge associated with powering the light on, and it exceeds 20A but then falls below 20A will eventually cause failure.

20A * 12.8V = 256W

Is the sign less than 256W?

If it correctly configured, and you are well under the 20A limit, the most likely explanation is the MPPT has failed.

 

[rcampbellwd]

It should be under 256w. we built the sign during it only got shipped with 2, 120w transformers, but they might of sent bigger then what was called out for. I have been doing a small amount of research and found that the Victrons BatteryProtect can be used for bigger "start" loads. just in case that would be the issue. Right now it goes like this. PV Panels to MPPT to Battery, MPPT Load to lights for on/off. Adding a BP would be PV Panels to MPPT to Battery to BP. MPPT Load to BP, MP to Lights. Am I missing anything.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Transformers have negligible resistance until the current flow generates an inductive field to provide resistance to the flow of current.

This reference:

Transformer Inrush Current: Limiting a 40VA Transformer

Learn how to limit transformer inrush current. Follow these 7 steps to calculate the right inrush current limiter for a 40VA transformer.

www.ametherm.com

Indicates surge through a transformer may be 10X the normal rate.

The 20A limit is a never exceed value. I would conclude every time the light is turned on, the load port is briefly subjected to substantially higher current than 20A. Repeated use has likely caused the load port to fail.

The BP would likely suffer the same fate without some limiting component, but the method outlined in that article might help, and your proposed method is otherwise workable (if you can take care of the surge).

IIRC, @AntronX did something similar with NTC resistors or similar devices and had interesting results testing various items with surge. He's also a lot smarter about this stuff and can tell you if I'm full of crap.

 

[AntronX]

Right now it goes like this. PV Panels to MPPT to Battery, MPPT Load to lights for on/off. Adding a BP would be PV Panels to MPPT to Battery to BP. MPPT Load to BP, MP to Lights. Am I missing anything.

What's BP and MP? What kind of transformers are they (make, model)?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

BP is a victron battery protect. I think MP is a bypo for BP.

He's proposing using a victron battery protect to open/close the circuit with the load port signal of the MPPT.

I was invoking your name to see if I was full of crap.

 

[rcampbellwd]

AntronX- I bypassed the Transformers for the lights. what was sent was a 12volt LED Modules inside of aluminium cans. nothing special. Once I found out that I can use the load on the Victron instead of having to go to an inverter to a timer then to the transformer it made the application simple and easy as well as less stuff to buy and to me more reliable

I spoke with my suppliers tech support for the Victron and he told me to let the Victron do a hard restart- disconnect the PV power as well as disconnect the Battery, for about 30 mins, then attach the battery, turn the PV panels back on and see if it works, if it doesn't then fill out a warranty RMA. Does that sound like the logical way to approach the problem?

Yes BP is battery protect, and the MP is a typo, I'm sorry for the lack of spell check and grammar.

 

[AntronX]

OK so no transformers, just 12V LEDs on Victron's load output. What's the total load current from LEDs? How many parallel strings of LEDs? Are there fuses on each string? I wonder if you had a short circuit in the LED strip which could have killed the load output mosfet.

 

[rcampbellwd]

AntronX- I have been reviewing all available information trying to track down total load current as well as being parallel strings. I dont have any info about what even modules are currently in the sign. There are no fuses to each string, All are bundled up together with pig tails to reduce it from 12 wires down to 1. I can attach the pig tail straight to battery it does turn on and light up. There is a small chance I could have nick the wire putting the panel back on, but I inspected the 2 bunches and they have no problems or concerns.

 

[yodamota]

Ive been using a car 12v relay to turn my garden 12v pump on. the 75/15 victron couldnt do it. What about trying something like that? The relay was something I just had lying around. pulled from a dead vehicle. I think it was a 1997 toyota corolla.

 

[rcampbellwd]

yodamota- I have only used a relay one time in my mechanical life and that was when I put on a led light bar on my truck. After a quick google
I saw this, I know I have multiple at home, so not scared of cars 12v. So in theory (unless you or someone can confirm)
Pin 86- Load + (Red)
Pin 87- to Load (Lights)
Pin 30- Battery +
Pin 85- Load -

Now after I wrote that out im somewhat confused, pin 85 is chassis ground, and there are 2 wires coming from the load, I assumed that 86 is red (+) and 85 would be black (-). and in that theory, the signal from the Mppt would go though to pin 86 to tell pin 30 that there is power to switch on pin 87. I just dont want to be stuck halfway though install because I forgot what pin 85 gets connected too... is it the negative from the load, or is it the negative to the battery?
search

 

[yodamota]

Think this is what you need to do. The victron box is the load terminals. also the Diagram doesn't take into consideration how you wire the negative to your lights.

 

[rcampbellwd]

YodaMota- That was what I was thinking. Victron output goes to 86 (+) and 85 (-) Positive from Batter (+) goes to an inline fuse to 30, with 87 going to red side of Led lights. The black side of leds will go to ground on battery.