VICTRON 24V Multiplus II 2x120v Purchase Availability

[Photog1]

Is the VICTRON 24V Multiplus II 2x120v Available for Purchase? If so, where? Anyone have a link for purchase?

 

[houlster]

Northern AZ Wind & Sun has it for purchase. I called and they said they were on the way and would have them in a week so, but after I bought one, I got an email saying they're not expecting them to ship to them until around Jul 1st. So... maybe mid Jul before getting one, but likely longer still. You know nothing ever ships as expected these days.

Victron MultiPlus-II inverter & charger 3000 VA 24 Volts DC, 2x120 Volts AC, 70 Amp charger

Part Number: PMP242305130 NOTE: THE PRODUCT IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR INTEGRATION WITH 50A RV APPLICATIONS. THIS MODEL INCLUDES THE TWO POLE 50A AC INPUT/OUTPUT. IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THE MODEL WITH A SINGLE POLE AC INPUT/OUTPUT, PLEASE LOOK AT THE 24/3000/70-50 120V MULTI-II. Note: To do...

www.solar-electric.com

 

[houlster]

Also, check with https://inverterservicecenter.com/

I emailed Victron a couple weeks ago and they had PJ from this place email me back. Said they have some on order as well. Probably the same boat as the ones N AZ is waiting for...

 

[Ranger Rick]

Is the VICTRON 24V Multiplus II 2x120v Available for Purchase? If so, where? Anyone have a link for purchase?

YES, Inverters R Us has the new 24V MP-II 2x120v model in stock and is shipping them immediately.

Victron Energy MultiPlus-II 3000 VA 24V Inverter Charger PMP122305100

Great for 50A coaches, the PMP122305100 Victron Mulitplus-II 24V 3000 VA can accept and pass through both lines of a 120/240V supply.

invertersrus.com

 

[corn18]

Now that they have gone to 24V and 48V input, they should think about a 5000VA version.

 

[saboken]

Now that they have gone to 24V and 48V input, they should think about a 5000VA version.

I could be wrong but I think they already make one it's UK only ?? hopefully they build one that's compatible with US power soon. I don't remember what they call it? But I'm pretty sure it's what you're talking about.

 

[fafrd]

Do we have any owners of a Multiplus II 2x120V on the Forum yet?

 

[sneil]

Do we have any owners of a Multiplus II 2x120V on the Forum yet?

I have the Multiplus II 12V 2x120 installed in my 5th wheel. Replaced the Multiplus 12V 3000/120 I had.

 

[chess-equality]

Can the Multiplus II 2x120v be used to output 230v 60Hz?

 

[sneil]

Can the Multiplus II 2x120v be used to output 230v 60Hz?

The Multiplus II 2x120 is restricted to 120VAC output. Victron does have a different version that supports 230VAC 50Hz output MultiPlus-II Inverter/Charger 230V

 

[HighTechLab]

In stock and on the shelf: https://www.currentconnected.com/product/mp3k2x120/?attribute_voltage=24V

 

[chess-equality]

The Multiplus II 2x120 is restricted to 120VAC output. Victron does have a different version that supports 230VAC 50Hz output MultiPlus-II Inverter/Charger 230V

In stock and on the shelf: https://www.currentconnected.com/product/mp3k2x120/?attribute_voltage=24V

Too bad one is 230v 50Hz, and the other is 120v 60Hz. I think there's no Multiplus-II that can do 230v 60Hz out?

 

[HighTechLab]

The inverters can be changed from 50hz to 60hz in the settings

If you are in North America, you don't want a 230v Victron inverter. These are 230v from L to N, not from L-L, they don't have a centertap. I highly recommend against using transformers to create the neutral as well.

Two 120v inverters can be series-connected for 120/240v split phase, as needed in North America. This is optimally done with NON 2x120v inverters, rather the single 120v units (SKU PMP242305100)

 

[chess-equality]

The inverters can be changed from 50hz to 60hz in the settings

Also for the output? I've read this is only true for the input.

 

[HighTechLab]

Also for the output? I've read this is only true for the input.

It's the system frequency. You can't have a system on both frequencies.

 

[fafrd]

The inverters can be changed from 50hz to 60hz in the settings

If you are in North America, you don't want a 230v Victron inverter. These are 230v from L to N, not from L-L, they don't have a centertap. I highly recommend against using transformers to create the neutral as well.

Two 120v inverters can be series-connected for 120/240v split phase, as needed in North America. This is optimally done with NON 2x120v inverters, rather the single 120v units (SKU PMP242305100)

You seem to know a great deal about the Multiplus II 2x120, so I’m hoping you can answer my question:

Using 2 120V units (two PMP242205100s) I assume you can connect 1 to L1 with its external CT sensor connected around the L1 mains wire, and the second to
L2 with it’s external CT sensor connected around the L2 mains wire and in this way, you can offset both L1 and L2 loads on the AC Input as long as those loads are less than 2.4kVa per leg (4.8kVa total) and battery charge remains, correct?

So my first question is to confirm that you can connect two Multiplus II 2x120s in the same way (one in L1, the other on L2, each with external CT sensors connected to their respective leg from mains) and they will function in the same way (assuming the non-inverted leg of AC output remains disconnected on both inverters).

And my more critical question is to confirm that if a single Multiplus II 120x2 is wired in the manner intended, the external CT sensor should be connected to L1 and when tied to 240VAC grid power, load offset (‘Ignore AC Power’ or whatever) will only be performed on L1 loads (both connected to AC input as well as AC output) while L2 loads will be powered by the grid.

I’m trying to confirm that a Multiplus II 120x2 can be used to offset up to a maximum of 2.4kVA of all loads on L1 (both on AC input and AC output) by using the external CT sensor.

 

[HighTechLab]

You seem to know a great deal about the Multiplus II 2x120, so I’m hoping you can answer my question

Yes in addition to what I know, the company I run (Current Connected) employs some of the highest trained Victron technicians in the country, so we have limitless knowledge at our disposal. Victron has a TON of features, but they take a lot of reading and understanding to fully utilize.

Using 2 120V units (two PMP242205100s) I assume you can connect 1 to L1 with its external CT sensor connected around the L1 mains wire, and the second to
L2 with it’s external CT sensor connected around the L2 mains wire and in this way, you can offset both L1 and L2 loads on the AC Input as long as those loads are less than 2.4kVa per leg (4.8kVa total) and battery charge remains, correct?

Yes, you could do this but if your loads are fed through the inverters, the inverter has built in current measurement, so the external CT's are not needed at all. You only need the external CT's if you are powering loads from grid/generator directly, rather than feeding them from the output terminals of the inverter. This model has a 50A input capability, so if AC input was present, you could add another 25A to it (3kva) for a total output of 75A per leg total with grid/generator present. If you adjust the input current limit, you would be able to output [input] + 25A, so if your input circuit was 20a, you could output 45A.

So my first question is to confirm that you can connect two Multiplus II 2x120s in the same way (one in L1, the other on L2, each with external CT sensors connected to their respective leg from mains) and they will function in the same way (assuming the non-inverted leg of AC output remains disconnected on both inverters).

Yes, Multiplus-2 2x120 is able to do a series / split phase 120/240v installation, but it has no advantage over a single 120v model. In this split phase configuration, you wouldn't want to take advantage of the L2 terminals at all, L1 feeds into inverter 1 (and is monitored by that CT), L2 feeds into inverter 2. This gives you powerassist on both legs, and operates as mentioned in previous paragraph.

a Multiplus II 120x2 can be used to offset up to a maximum of 2.4kVA of all loads on L1 (both on AC input and AC output) by using the external CT sensor.

Exactly...but it would be 3kva (2.4 kW)

 

[fafrd]

Yes in addition to what I know, the company I run (Current Connected) employs some of the highest trained Victron technicians in the country, so we have limitless knowledge at our disposal. Victron has a TON of features, but they take a lot of reading and understanding to fully utilize.

Cool. Assuming you sell at the same MSRP as your competitors, your company sounds like the kind of outfit I’d like to purchase a Victron from…

Yes, you could do this but if your loads are fed through the inverters, the inverter has built in current measurement, so the external CT's are not needed at all.

I understand that. My goal is to offset loads on the AC input. I may eventually set up a small Critical Loads Panel for truly critical 120VAC loads such as refrigerators, but for the purpose of this discussion, assume I’ve left the AC output of both (or only one) Multiplus II 2x120 disconnected (floating) and I expect no functionality when the grid goes down…

You only need the external CT's if you are powering loads from grid/generator directly, rather than feeding them from the output terminals of the inverter.

Precisely. This is exactly the capability I am interested in (using the external CT sensor clamped to the L1 mains wire.

This model has a 50A input capability, so if AC input was present, you could add another 25A to it (3kva) for a total output of 75A per leg total with grid/generator present.

On the AC output, not that important to me. But offsetting loads connected to L1 input, power available would be limited to 2.4kVA / 3kW, correct?

If you adjust the input current limit, you would be able to output [input] + 25A, so if your input circuit was 20a, you could output 45A.

All of this is still for AC output, correct?

Yes, Multiplus-2 2x120 is able to do a series / split phase 120/240v installation, but it has no advantage over a single 120v model.

I’m open to either dual Multiplus II 120Vs or dual Mutiplus II 2x120Vs. Since the 24VDC 2x120V models have launched, it seems as though the 24VDV 120VAC Multiplus IIs have pretty much gone out of production (impossible to find).

In this split phase configuration, you wouldn't want to take advantage of the L2 terminals at all, L1 feeds into inverter 1 (and is monitored by that CT), L2 feeds into inverter 2. This gives you powerassist on both legs, and operates as mentioned in previous paragraph.

This is the capability I’m looking for. I spoke to one of your competitors (another US Victron reseller and after checking with his ‘expert’ (who apparently has a Myltuplus II 2x120 at home), he told me that the CT sensor was only usable for monitoring in the US 120V models and could not be used to offset load on the AC input even though that functionality was supported in Europe.

So I’m hoping you are correct and they are wrong, but I’l like to understand what minimum level of additional equipment (beyond the Multiplus II + external
CT sensor) as well as which software packages or settings are needed to enable the functionality I’ll call ‘export to CT’?

Once I know how that capability can be enabled, I’ll be ready to pull the trigger on at least one 24VDC Multiplus II 120 or 120x2 (I’m draining stored energy overnight and gave enough overnight load just on L1).

Exactly...but it would be 3kva (2.4 kW)

I must confess this distinction continues to befuddle me. I used to make the same distinction you and Victron do but so many vendors now use 3kW and 3kVA interchangeably that I guess I’ve started to go with the flow.

kW is what matters so let’s just stick to 2.4kW

After my recent discussion with your competitor, I was ready to throw in the towel on Victron.

But you’ve given me renewed hope…

 

[HighTechLab]

MSRP as your competitors

Yes, we sell at MAP, the lowest we are allowed to advertise at. Everyone sells at MAP, no one buys at prices over MAP...

My goal is to offset loads on the AC input

CT sensor clamped to the L1 mains wire

OK no problem. We will focus on that for now.

the 24VDV 120VAC Multiplus IIs have pretty much gone out of production

Not at all. The local Victron warehouse has 280 in stock...I just ordered some in and will have them on my shelf in 2 days - I don't stock many because just about everything in 24v sells at a snail's pace...everyone either uses 12v or jumps to 48v.

CT sensor was only usable for monitoring in the US 120V models and could not be used to offset load on the AC input

Sort of. The inverter cannot interact with an l2 coming in, only feed it through. The CT would only be able to interact with L1.

You must have a Cerbo-GX.
First, you would need to load the ESS assistant into the inverter with Victron Connect / VEConfig.
Second, on the Cerbo-GX, you would go into the ESS menu, and set the grid setpoint to 0w.

When you plug the CT into the inverter, it automatically detects and enables it.

I will gladly do a setup on my bench tomorrow to be 1000% certain and share the results.

kW is what matters so let’s just stick to 2.4kW

Sounds good.

 

[fafrd]

Yes, we sell at MAP, the lowest we are allowed to advertise at. Everyone sells at MAP, no one buys at prices over MAP...

Cool.

OK no problem. We will focus on that for now.

Great.

Not at all. The local Victron warehouse has 280 in stock...I just ordered some in and will have them on my shelf in 2 days - I don't stock many because just about everything in 24v sells at a snail's pace...everyone either uses 12v or jumps to 48v.

OK - I’m open to the 24V Multiplus II 120V, especially if it is cheaper. If the only difference between a 120x2 setup and a 120x1 setup in the 120x2 allows 240VAC loads on the Critical Loads Panel tone powered while the grid is up, that is not a use case so will ever be interested in (any Critical Loads Panel I establish would be 120VAC loads only).

Just out of academic interest, when either two MPII 120s or 120x2s are grid tied, they will be synced by the two out-of-phase Legs from the Split-phase grid.

A single 120x2 will allow 240VAC loads on the AC output to be powered when grid-tied but will then switch over to 120VAC in backup mode (grid down). So balanced 120VAC loads on the Critical Loads panel can all be supplied by the 120x2 in backup/off grid mode.

With only a single 120, I guess the best you can do is either only put loads on one leg of the Critcal Loads panel or tie the AC output to both non-neutral legs of the Critical Loads Panel, correct?

If you have two of either 120x2 or 120, is there a way to maintain our-of-phase synchronization between them to power 240VAC loads even when off-grid?

This is not a priority for me know and I plan to start with only a single MPII used primarily to offset loads on L1. But if I ever add a second similar MP2 for L2 in the future, understanding whether there is any difference in the off-grid / backup power capability of the 120x2 versus the 120 would be helpful (future-proofing).

Sort of. The inverter cannot interact with an l2 coming in, only feed it through. The CT would only be able to interact with L1.

This is what I expected and what I explained to the other rep, but he seemed quite certain no load compensation on L1 only was possible.

You must have a Cerbo-GX.

And that about another $500 if so? Needed with either 120x2 or 120?

First, you would need to load the ESS assistant into the inverter with Victron Connect / VEConfig.
Second, on the Cerbo-GX, you would go into the ESS menu, and set the grid setpoint to 0w.

What I was hoping. Setpoint can also be set a bit higher (or lower if negative) maintain a small amount of import such as 20W if you want more margin to avoid export, correct?

Do you know on what frequency the MPII samples the CT sensor and updates the power level of the inverter based on import/export as measured by the z external CT sensor?

When you plug the CT into the inverter, it automatically detects and enables it.

Nice. What is the longest cable length supported?

I will gladly do a setup on my bench tomorrow to be 1000% certain and share the results.

You’ll be my hero if you can do this. I’m primarily interested in using the MPII to offset overnight load associated with refrigerators powered by the main panel, though high intermittent loads of 3kW @ 240VAC (translating to 1500kW on L1) associated with the heating element of the electric oven duty-cycling is the highest load I’d ever be (fully or partially) offsetting on L1.

Just in case you’ve got an office fridge you can attempt to power through an extension cord or and 1500-1800W heat loads such as a coffee-makers or toaster ovens you can offset.

For the test to be meaningful, you don’t need to place the clamp sensor on the AC L1 mains wire.

You can use a 120VAC extension cord (at least for the MPII 120) with wires exposed or wired through a junction box where the clamp sensor can be clamped around the hot wire. If you plug loads such as a refrigerator or a toaster oven into that extension cord and measure current at the either end, you should see 0A (or 167mA if you set the export threshold to 20A (or -20A if that is the setting to maintain a small amount of import).

I was ending my day feeling very depressed about this but you’ve made me excited again - if the MPII can deliver the ‘Export-to-CT’ capability on L1 when grid tied, I’ll finally be able to take the plunge to start building my target system (based on a Victron Inverter ).

Sounds good.

View attachment 115007

I’ve seen that picture before but am confused enough now that perhaps you can help me to understand something:

37.9Ah have been charged into a very large 8S LiFePO4 battery at 26.4V. Assume that as that 37.9Ah is discharged from the battery, no energy is lost in the battery and the battery maintains the voltage of 26.4V as that full 1000VA is discharged into an inverter with 94% efficiency powering either a 1500W resistive load or a 500W refrigerator.

How long will the 1000VA from the battery be able to power either load through that inverter (which should be similar to the efficiency of the MPII)???