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Victron All-in-one: "Inverter RS 48/6000 230V Smart Solar"

If you could find a beefy enough transformer with the right voltages it'd be completely possible to slap a 240 to 120-0-120 transformer on the Victron's output but TANSTAAFL. The 2nd transformer would have it's own losses and idle draw so that would ruin the Victron's quite good idle draw. As already noted Victron has an autotransformer, but I wonder what the change in frequency from 50Hz to 60Hz does for the magentics in the inverter's internal toroidal transformers from an efficiency point of view.
 
Higher frequency = lower losses in the core so going from 50 to 60 Hz is fine, the opposite however isn't.
 
@Dzl A split phase transformer schematic looks like this:

1596068290148.png

In the case we are discussing here, the distribution voltage would be the 240V single phase from the Victron Inverter.

This is also what is on the pole behind feeding residential houses in the U.S. (The grey cylindrical transformer you see in neighborhoods). The difference is the distribution voltage will be *much* higher.
 
And the Schneider Conext SW 4048 already has an expensive autotransformer built in.

Although I plan to use 240v input and output it is nice to know that I can feed it with a 120v generator and it will output 240v into my critical loads panel if my solar/battery power is insufficient.
 
One advantage of using the autotransformer is that you don't have to worry about load-balancing your two 120v legs (e.g. overloading one inverter but having plenty of spare power on the other inverter). That is, if you have two inverters combined in split-phase mode. I'm building my system with an 8 or 10kva victron and an autotransformer because I do need both split phase 240 and 120.
 
www.victronenergy.com

Autotransformer - Victron Energy

Use the Autotransformers for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.
www.victronenergy.com www.victronenergy.com

An Autotransformer can be used for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes.
While the step up and step down functions are fairly straightforward, split phase output balancing may require some more attention.

Tips or tricks for the above?
 
snoobler said:
www.victronenergy.com

Autotransformer - Victron Energy

Use the Autotransformers for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.
www.victronenergy.com www.victronenergy.com

An Autotransformer can be used for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes.
While the step up and step down functions are fairly straightforward, split phase output balancing may require some more attention.

Tips or tricks for the above?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what they mean -- do they mean balancing an input that's split phase (I realize they say "split phase output balancing") or do they really mean balancing the output of an autotransformer? That's the first I've seen of this. The only caveat that I'm aware of is that the neutral line can't take more than 28a (32 peak) which means your imbalance can't be more than 28 (32) amps. Post 24 describes the setup. See also: https://community.victronenergy.com...transformer-to-create-120v240v-split-pha.html
 
burnin_daylight said:

The autotransformer is the key to making it all work. It will 100% work for N American split phase power.
Click to expand...
www.victronenergy.com.es

Autotransformadores - Victron Energy

Use the Autotransformers for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.
www.victronenergy.com.es www.victronenergy.com.es

So how much do they cost?, wich % of energy efficiency are we losing with this?, sounds very interesting!, specially because i might have an unbalanced installation!
 
snoobler said:
www.victronenergy.com

Autotransformer - Victron Energy

Use the Autotransformers for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.
www.victronenergy.com www.victronenergy.com

An Autotransformer can be used for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes.
While the step up and step down functions are fairly straightforward, split phase output balancing may require some more attention.

Tips or tricks for the above?
Click to expand...
From the manual:

"While the step-up and step-down functions are fairly straightforward, split phase output balancing may require some more attention. Consider for example a 30A 120/240V split phase supply. The supply could be the grid, a generator or two stacked inverters. Some of the loads connected are 240V, others are 120V. On each 120V leg the load should not exceed 30A. The problem is that as soon as 120V loads are connected, the two legs will show a different current. This is because the 120V loads on the two legs will never be balanced. A 120V 1200W hairdryer, for example, will draw 10A from one leg. A 120V clothes washer could even draw in excess of 20A from one leg. Between the two legs the difference in current, or current unbalance, will therefore often be 20A or more. This means that the 30A supply will not be used up to its full potential. By the time one leg draws 30A, the other leg may be drawing no more than 10A, and increasing the 240V load, for example, will result in an overload of one leg while the other leg still has spare capacity. Theoretically, the total power that can be drawn from a 30A 120/240V supply is 30 x 240 = 7,2kVA. In case of 20A unbalance, the practical maximum will be 30 x 120 + 10 x120 = 4,8kVA, or 67% of the theoretical maximum. The solution is an autotransformer. By leaving the neutral of the split phase supply unused, and connecting an autotransformer to create a new neutral, as shown in figure 1, any load unbalance is “absorbed” by the autotransformer. In case of a 30A supply, the load can be increased to 7,2kVA, and a 20A load unbalance will result in one leg supplying 40A, and the other leg 20A. The 20A difference will flow through the neutral and the windings of the autotransformer. The current through both 120V wires of the split phase supply will be 30A."
 
Last edited:
In the instruction manual of the RS 48/6000 230V I found this picture:
IMG_20201122_094251_LI.jpg

Can a grid inverter be connected to the AC output (load) of the inverter? Would this also charge the batteries if no load is used ?
 
Thats correct, its called AC coupling and works with SMA, Fronius and other FV inverters that have the frequency shifting funcionallity as far as i know.

They will charge your batteries, but its not the most efficient method, since your are having some loses from the string inverter, and the inverter charger itself (2 steps). If you want to prioritize your battery charging, its better to use a separate MPPT Victron charger directly from the panels.

A very cool function, is that if you are connected to the grid, and it fails... then the Victron inverter will create a microgrid, so the PV inverter (Fronius) will keep working, and you can feed the loads directly from PV, string inverter, and your battery.

If most of your loads are working during the day, AC coupling its very good since the efficiency would be >97%.
If your loads are mostrly during the night, or you are not connected to the grid, probably the separate MPPT chargers would be better.
 
Yes victron builds very nice systems, probably the best on the market!
But for bigger systems you need to be a engineer programmer ect.
To start small victon is perfect, there add ons are perfect, however the bigger you go the more you must have or start all over again. with equipment that is not worth it to go off grid(for the second time???)
Quality yes, for the average joe(especially bigger systems) a big no, you get what you payed for: a big yes.
I am not a designer nor programmer, but a electronic enthusiasts, (mechanical)engineer and a construction worker(carpenter for 30 years, background in 1ste electrician) having a moderate company now in the insulation stuff, with programming you are losing me if it is not gw or c or q basic.
Victron vs mpp: in my case mpp wins, i will take the losses for granted but they are very easy to connect.
3 in parralel is 15kwh(or 6 or 9 even in 380v) would be enough for us, some solar chargers and a falifax switch(those are gold from the Victron family)

Many thanks, most of my questions are answered in this thread, I will study that one Will pointed out.
Best to all and stay save from covid! cheers Igor
 
Supplemental:
Does not support parallel or 380v only single phase and is stand alone.
Does not have the choose batts first, does not have a prechoice switch.....
Ac first, second with pv extra it will power your needs then 3th it will use your cells if there is no ac...6kwh ups...
But it is a beast if you have a boat or a camper (and need 6kwh), for home ess I would not do it.

With best regards Igor
 
snoobler said:
Agreed. I selected my dual 5K/48 Quattros for that reason... got a wicked deal, and they didn't offer anything with split phase, so they'll eventually be synced for that purpose.
Click to expand...
Couldn't you just add a Victron Autotransformer, to get 2 phases?
 
not.aChef said:
Couldn't you just add a Victron Autotransformer, to get 2 phases?
Click to expand...

You can. There's a disadvantage for those of us in mobile situations like an RV - we need to connect to both 120 and 120/240 so the AT presents 3 problems:

1) You need 2 of them (1 on input side and one on output side)
2) Your minimum amperage in power assist is doubled, which will exceed 120v 15 and 20a circuits
3) It complicates the input automatic transfer design

For those reasons, I went with dual Quattros.
 
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