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Victron Battery Protect with Inverter?

GMB

GMB

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I've read that the Victron Battery Protect can be used with an inverter with an on/off remote function. I have a Giandel 3000 watt 24v inverter that uses a RJ11 connector that plugs into the remote on/off port on the inverter. How would I go about wiring this up without opening up the inverter box? Would I simply cut off one of the RJ11 connectors and connect the out side of the battery protect to the red wire and plug the other end into the RJ11 port on the inverter? The inverter also comes with a remote on/off button so if the above doesn't work, should I take the button apart and wire it up that way (if so, how?) and leave the RJ11 ends and cable intact?

Below is the schematic from the Victron Battery Protect user manual regarding the inverter connections:
Battery Protect.jpg
 
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Firstly, just want to clarify your point, "Victron Battery Protect can be used with an inverter with an on/off remote function." ... yes it can be used to control an inverter but it must not be used to switch the supply to an inverter. They are not designed for this. Secondly, again for clarity, inverters that have 'remote control' feature are specifically designed for this configuration, 'normal' inverters are not.

For further information, Will did a video on this very topic recently - he used an opto-coupled relay controlled by his BMS in series with the inverter's switch so that either could sof-disconnect the inverter.

Additionally there is a recent thread on here discussing options to remote control 'normal' inverters.

But back to your question...

These newer BatteryProtect module can be used in two ways to remote control an inverter:
  1. Using the switched output
  2. Using a programmable rely
If using a Victron inverter, Option 1 is easy because the inverter expects a DC supply to be active on the remote line (per the diagram above), but you can also use the programmable relay to either provide a switched supply or a switched earth via the relay contacts. So in summary, the BatteryProtect can provide either a switchable short, a supply or an earth to 'normal' inverter.

So now we need to determine what the 'normal' inverter needs.

The inverter requires a 0.5 second, probably 'high', signal to switch on per Page 6 of your user manual, "3) Long press the switch or the remoter of inverter for over 0.5s and then stop, if the indicator light on the inverter or on the remote control box is on, it means that the inverter starts to work normally. This opening method can avoid turning on the unit by mistakes due to the interference or any factors. ".

Unfortunately, the switch off procedure is less clear, "6) Switch off inverter and remoter to stop working. At that time, the indicator lights in. Both inverter and remoter are off. The inverter does not consume current of the battery when it is switched off." but my guess it'll be the same signal i.e. press and hold for 0.5 seconds to switch on, do the same to switch off.

So, based on the above information, I would say that it would NOT be possible to switch this inverter on/off using the relatively simple signaling provided by the BatteryProtect module. With that said, as I mention in the thread referred to above, such a signal would be relatively simple to produce with a cheap (i.e. sub $1) microcontroller.

I could design such a gadget if there was sufficient interest, or one might already exist on maker sites like 'instructables.com'.
 
tictag said:
Firstly, just want to clarify your point, "Victron Battery Protect can be used with an inverter with an on/off remote function." ... yes it can be used to control an inverter but it must not be used to switch the supply to an inverter. They are not designed for this. Secondly, again for clarity, inverters that have 'remote control' feature are specifically designed for this configuration, 'normal' inverters are not.

For further information, Will did a video on this very topic recently - he used an opto-coupled relay controlled by his BMS in series with the inverter's switch so that either could sof-disconnect the inverter.

Additionally there is a recent thread on here discussing options to remote control 'normal' inverters.

But back to your question...

These newer BatteryProtect module can be used in two ways to remote control an inverter:
  1. Using the switched output
  2. Using a programmable rely
If using a Victron inverter, Option 1 is easy because the inverter expects a DC supply to be active on the remote line (per the diagram above), but you can also use the programmable relay to either provide a switched supply or a switched earth via the relay contacts. So in summary, the BatteryProtect can provide either a switchable short, a supply or an earth to 'normal' inverter.

So now we need to determine what the 'normal' inverter needs.

The inverter requires a 0.5 second, probably 'high', signal to switch on per Page 6 of your user manual, "3) Long press the switch or the remoter of inverter for over 0.5s and then stop, if the indicator light on the inverter or on the remote control box is on, it means that the inverter starts to work normally. This opening method can avoid turning on the unit by mistakes due to the interference or any factors. ".

Unfortunately, the switch off procedure is less clear, "6) Switch off inverter and remoter to stop working. At that time, the indicator lights in. Both inverter and remoter are off. The inverter does not consume current of the battery when it is switched off." but my guess it'll be the same signal i.e. press and hold for 0.5 seconds to switch on, do the same to switch off.

So, based on the above information, I would say that it would NOT be possible to switch this inverter on/off using the relatively simple signaling provided by the BatteryProtect module. With that said, as I mention in the thread referred to above, such a signal would be relatively simple to produce with a cheap (i.e. sub $1) microcontroller.

I could design such a gadget if there was sufficient interest, or one might already exist on maker sites like 'instructables.com'.
Click to expand...
Great post here is a video of the switch. It indeed is too complicated to interface.
 
Here is my project where I used an relay module and a low volt disconnect instead of the SBP for on off. I did a modification of my existing inverter to add on off in another video on my channel.
 
I am struggling with this issue right now. Around a year ago I order a 1200W Giandel inverter from Amazon, and I can not say how pleased I am with it. But I had a second incident where my two LiFePo4 batteries dropped down to 10 Volts before the inverter shut down and I am not at all happy with that. So I ordered the 200A Victron Battery protect only to discover inverters are not one of the "loads" supported by it. I wish I had read the above discussion before moving forward, but I was able to return the Victron to Amazon and get my money back after losing half a day of solar power trying to install it and then having to remove it. At this point I have ordered a fairly simple programmable DC voltage monitor with both over voltage cutoff (not relevant to this situation) and under voltage cutoff which is what I am planning to make use of. These devices are pretty inexpensive so not a big loss if it doesn't work. The device I am ordering offers both nc switch and no switch and I am planning to connect the nc switch to a 300A nc continuous duty starter relay, also very inexpensive, and see how that works. In any case, I certainly don't want to continue to draw my batteries down to the 10V range. So if this doesn't work out, I will be back here to see what else might work. I learn something new each time I watch one of Will's Youtube videos, they have been a big help to me. Although I have an electronics background, I still am learning about solar. Often the hard way, but sometimes those are the best lessons.
 
George Mitchell said:
The device I am ordering offers both nc switch and no switch and I am planning to connect the nc switch to a 300A nc continuous duty starter relay, also very inexpensive, and see how that works.
Click to expand...
Links please.
 
smoothJoey said:
Links please.
Click to expand...
I will be happy to supply the links, but I don't even know if it will work. It is kind of a shot in the dark.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QDW3BDR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072MZHK48/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The only issue I see with this solution is whether or not the winding on the relay might overheat as it mentions "Need Break 5 sec on, 50 min off" but labels it as "continuous duty. A bit confusing, but if it burns out, at least I tried.
 
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I have two of these battery protectors on my LiFePo4 battery bank (will work for any battery type in the voltage range) as the last defense of something going wrong:

bed-electronics – bed-electronics shop

bed-electronics.com bed-electronics.com

One is configured for low voltage disconnect and the other for high voltage disconnect. You use their windows software to configure the voltage settings.

When it reaches one of the configured values it trips and all power stops going through that protector.
 
read the manual for your inverter. My Samlex 2000W sinewave inverter warns to not switch inverter off while under load.
 
These look like a great solution, however, in my case I am drawing close to 1200 watts in many cases from paralleled batteries. That is 100 amps and when appliances start it momentarily exceeds that. That would seem to be beyond the capacity of these devices from the specs I am seeing on their pages. It looks to me like they drop the load at 50 amps. That is why I purchase the 200 amp unit from Victron.
 
George Mitchell said:
These look like a great solution, however, in my case I am drawing close to 1200 watts in many cases from paralleled batteries. That is 100 amps and when appliances start it momentarily exceeds that. That would seem to be beyond the capacity of these devices from the specs I am seeing on their pages. It looks to me like they drop the load at 50 amps. That is why I purchase the 200 amp unit from Victron.
Click to expand...
If you are referring to those Bed Electronics devices they have one that supports 150A continuous:
Screen Shot 2020-11-03 at 1.01.55 PM.png
 
Unfortunately, these would not work for me because they can only be programmed via a windows computer which I do not have access to and do not want to be dependent on. The nice thing with Victron is that it can be programmed manually. In a case like this I have more trust in a mechanical system that just works until it doesn't. Software dependent devices are something I avoid if possible. Otherwise it appears to be an excellent solution although quite pricey in comparison to the Victron device. Of course one has to consider that it works and Victron's doesn't. But at twice the price. Thanks for sharing it though, I am sure it would work for some people.
 
There is a device called the Sterling Prolatch R that works similar to the Victron BP and can be used in line with an inverter. The user manual is listed on this page as well and if you're interested I would look at that for how to program as it's a bit confusing. They do have a tech at Bay Marine that may be of help for the programming part of it as well as I do recall him posting about it in a previous thread.

They have a 240 amp model if needed. Here is a little bit about it from the page linked below:
Battery protection mode - The ProLatch R prevents the over charging or over discharging of batteries. In order to prevent over charging, the relay disengages at a preset voltage or a voltage you specify (e.g. 14.4V). Therefore the battery will disconnect from the charging source. Conversely, to prevent battery depletion beyond a certain voltage, the relay will prevent charge from being drawn by the draining source (appliance). The device alerts the user by switching the power 'off' for 10 seconds and then back 'on' for 1 minute..

ProLatch R Programmable Latching Relay - 80 Amp

The ProLatch-R is designed to 'lock into position' and will not consume power once in position. The only current drawn is to run the internal software which amounts to about 0.5mA. This makes the ProLatch-R ideal for use with solar or wind sources.
baymarinesupply.com baymarinesupply.com
 
Again, looks potentially interesting but there is too little information on the website to consider purchasing it.
 
tictag said:
Firstly, just want to clarify your point, "Victron Battery Protect can be used with an inverter with an on/off remote function." ... yes it can be used to control an inverter but it must not be used to switch the supply to an inverter. They are not designed for this. Secondly, again for clarity, inverters that have 'remote control' feature are specifically designed for this configuration, 'normal' inverters are not.

For further information, Will did a video on this very topic recently - he used an opto-coupled relay controlled by his BMS in series with the inverter's switch so that either could sof-disconnect the inverter.

Additionally there is a recent thread on here discussing options to remote control 'normal' inverters.

But back to your question...

These newer BatteryProtect module can be used in two ways to remote control an inverter:
  1. Using the switched output
  2. Using a programmable rely
If using a Victron inverter, Option 1 is easy because the inverter expects a DC supply to be active on the remote line (per the diagram above), but you can also use the programmable relay to either provide a switched supply or a switched earth via the relay contacts. So in summary, the BatteryProtect can provide either a switchable short, a supply or an earth to 'normal' inverter.

So now we need to determine what the 'normal' inverter needs.

The inverter requires a 0.5 second, probably 'high', signal to switch on per Page 6 of your user manual, "3) Long press the switch or the remoter of inverter for over 0.5s and then stop, if the indicator light on the inverter or on the remote control box is on, it means that the inverter starts to work normally. This opening method can avoid turning on the unit by mistakes due to the interference or any factors. ".

Unfortunately, the switch off procedure is less clear, "6) Switch off inverter and remoter to stop working. At that time, the indicator lights in. Both inverter and remoter are off. The inverter does not consume current of the battery when it is switched off." but my guess it'll be the same signal i.e. press and hold for 0.5 seconds to switch on, do the same to switch off.

So, based on the above information, I would say that it would NOT be possible to switch this inverter on/off using the relatively simple signaling provided by the BatteryProtect module. With that said, as I mention in the thread referred to above, such a signal would be relatively simple to produce with a cheap (i.e. sub $1) microcontroller.

I could design such a gadget if there was sufficient interest, or one might already exist on maker sites like 'instructables.com'.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to Will's video?
 
you can also order a chargery disconnect
200A3.jpg
 
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