1201
Net zero
300 posts. Halfway there ?
Victron is Over-priced Eurotrash. Why would anybody buy Victron over an AiO?
- Thread starter sunshine_eggo
- Start date
sunshine_eggo
Victron's little biatch
Huh? Now it sounds like you're making stuff up. The presence of light gives voltage. The intensity of light gives amps. A solar flare would result in greater intensity resulting in more power/current and likely LOWER voltage due to increased cell heating from higher intensity solar irradiance.
Sounds to me like you're pushing your controllers to the Voc limit and beyond.
Bossrox
Solar tinkerer
You're starting to get on my nerves! No dummie, a solar flare raises the voltage & likely the amps too, show me where that's not true, not just you're opinion.
sunshine_eggo
Victron's little biatch
You're making the claim. The burden of proof is on you, but I'll help you out. Here's a reference (check your panel datasheet, you should see similar data):
The Highs and Lows of Photovoltaic System Calculations
Understanding calculations for proper system design and installation of photovoltaic (PV) systems
www.ecmweb.com
200W/m2 = 18Voc
400W/m2 = 20Voc (2X the intensity)
600W/m2 = 21Voc (3X the intensity)
800W/m2 = 21.5Voc (4X the intensity)
1000W/m2 = 22Voc (5X the intensity)
5X increase in intensity = 22% increase in Voc based on idealized data. In the MPPT range it's barely 10% (Vmp)
5X increase in intensity = 480% increase in Isc based on idealized data. It's a comparable relationship in the Imp range.
I hope this makes it very clear to you that there isn't a "likely" increase in amps. It's a definite, and it's massive. On a relative basis, the influence of irradiance on current is 22X greater than its influence on voltage, hence: light gives voltage; intensity of light gives current.
Of note - 2X increase from 400 to 800 only produces an 8% increase. The trend is clear. The rate of voltage increase decreases as irradiance increases.
"idealized data" = STC conditions - rarely exist in real life. On most sunny days, your panels aren't going to be at 25°C, they're going to be 40-50°C because 80% of the energy hitting them is being converted directly to heat, and are already running about 8% below Voc/Vmp.
At higher irradiance levels a major flare that would double the irradiance would have an even lesser effect. Double the irradiance from 1000 to 2000, and you're only going to get a 5-10% increase in voltage - which will likely not overcome the already suppressed voltage due to elevated cell temperature.
You clearly don't understand how environmental conditions affect PV modules. I am now absolutely convinced that you put 3S 72 cell panels on your Victron MPPT, and you popped them, and of course Victron wouldn't warranty them because you abused them. The obvious fix was to go with a higher Voc rated MPPT...that you still manage to over-volt.
You have a responsibility to design your system within the hardware and environmental limitations. When you do it wrong, it's not the equipment's fault.
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Apart from the 1300 GW of globally installed solar PV capacity which has managed to survive all these solar flares...
Brucey
Velcro Man
Brucey
Velcro Man
Or adding additional panels based on sun conditions? Perhaps flying to close to the sun...
diysolarforum.com
Over paneling my chargers using solar switches to keep charger inputs to normal.
I have 2 Systems, A 24v & 48v. The 48v is using 2 Growatt 80 amp chargers rated for 5kw each. The 24v is using 2 victron 150/100's @ 3kw each. So I have chargers with a total input capacity of 16kw & 22.5 kw in solar panels feeding them. In these videos I attempt to explain how I'm adding extra...
diysolarforum.com
Samsonite801
Solar Wizard
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Maybe should look into a SPD for the PV circuit...
Bossrox
Solar tinkerer
Just to set the record on whether a solar flare can overvolt a charger, here's a post from a member that recorded a solar flare https://diysolarforum.com/threads/july-17-solar-flare-event.65867/ so yeah, if your volt input to your charger is not far off from it's limit, a flare can push it over the top. At max volts, I'm about 25 volts away from my chargers max volt input & a flare will run it into overvolts as my chargers have shown by shutting down during such events & sometimes on cloud edging too.
Brucey
Velcro Man
Are you still running the setup shown in your videos where you switch in additional panels during low solar times? Potentially this is what smoked your three or four Victron 150/100s?
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
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- 25,883
When you choose to live on the edge.
You have to be prepared to suffer the consequences of going over that edge.
You have to be prepared to suffer the consequences of going over that edge.
WestAus
New Member
Victron OFG-VIC10 = ~$7,000.00 (au$)
Vs.
Ecgsolax MAX-10.2K = ~$850.00 (au$)
I could buy 8 x with change. But likely by the time the 1st needs replacing, like cell phones, tech will have improved.
Vs.
Ecgsolax MAX-10.2K = ~$850.00 (au$)
I could buy 8 x with change. But likely by the time the 1st needs replacing, like cell phones, tech will have improved.
sunshine_eggo
Victron's little biatch
Your inability to interpret basic information and simple arithmetic shouldn't be confused with me somehow being foggy.
You know that solar flares aren't magic, right? It's just more sun. The only question is how much and for how long.
Can you read or interpret technical data? Where do you see volts? That's power.
I've addressed the power issue above. A doubling of the irradiance would nearly double the current. Double current = double power at the same voltage.
You just admitted to a poor design. PVWatts (which actually reports hourly temperature data) says Columbia, SC can get as low as 21°F, and according to news reports... -1°F
Coldest Temperature on Record in Columbia - ABC Columbia
36 years ago today, Columbia recorded its coldest temperature on record. On January 21, 1985, the temperature dipped to -1°. Yikes! Reliable temperature records go back about 150 years. Categories: Weather Blog
www.abccolumbia.com
But that's outside the 30 year window that PVWatts uses, so I'll give you a pass.
You should have AT LEAST 14% Voc margin:
On a 150V controller that's 21V.
On a 200V controller, that's 28V.
On a 250V controller, that's 35V.
You should consider that this may be one of those situations where your vast electrical experience and knowledge takes a back seat to science, manufacturer's specifications and well... reality.
You killed Victron controllers because you overvolted them.
Victron refused warranty because you misused their equipment by overvolting them.
As I've claimed before, your experience with Victron hardware is atypical in the extreme... However, it is VERY common for someone who can't properly design a system within equipment specifications.
Brett V
Solar Wizard
But it's so much more interesting!
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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Oh, I agree that it is.
But, you can't complain when it bites you in the ass.
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Looks no different to a cloud edge effect to me. And nowhere does that show a voltage spike occurring. That would be pretty unlikely, as that's not what happens when irradiance rapidly increases.
Example, compare PV output for a two recent consecutive days:
The first day is a nice clear sunny day. The second day had lots of clouds passing over with patches of sun.
The first day shows the typical peak power curve (yellow line) during the middle of the day for an unconstrained PV array.
Note on the second day the significantly higher power outputs resulting from cloud edge effects.
Now look at the MPPT voltage (blue line). These shorter term peaks in irradiance do not result in a voltage spike.
What happens is the array current goes up. Here's the same chart with the MPPT current (purple line) showing:
Note how it's the array amps which rise and fall with those sharp increases in irradiance, while MPPT voltage doesn't react much.
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
”In God we trust. All others must bring data.” - W. Edwards Deming
I have real life witnessing as well backed up by actually recording the data.
KITROBASKIN
Solar Addict
No time wasted here because others (including myself) are interested in learning about the details sunshine put forth.
Interesting. I wonder how so many over paneled growatts have been fried then. Their numbers are hard numbers without buffer
To be fair. Though. Your comparison is also not like for like.
You went from a 150v Victron to a 250v Growatt. Imagine what you could do with a 250v Victron
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Nobody should be running VOC with such minimal buffer that in JULY you exceed the charge controller specs from a solar flare…what ever would your system do on a cold bright January day?
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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- May 9, 2022
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Walk a little faster with my lighter wallet.
sunshine_eggo
Victron's little biatch
At least a year before I discovered this forum, I was aggressively making my own mistakes. Mistake #1: 141Voc vs. 150Voc max on a MPPT 150/100. I only had a single 3S string with 5 more strings in the container as that's all I needed to keep things online.
Fortunately, my panels are at the lower end of the ±3% variation in Voc rating, and I rarely get over low 130s in STC conditions.
Then I finally found the reference in the manual from four years ago that explicitly stated 2S 72 cell panels and 3S 60 cell panels on a 150V controller. Fortunately, I discovered this before it got too cold.
Solution? Rewire the panels to 2S? Hell no. That would have been 9P and would have blown the 70A PV input current limit. Pay the stupid tax and upgrade to a 250/100, swap it out and sell the 150/100 at a discount to some fortunate soul.
Fortunately, my panels are at the lower end of the ±3% variation in Voc rating, and I rarely get over low 130s in STC conditions.
Then I finally found the reference in the manual from four years ago that explicitly stated 2S 72 cell panels and 3S 60 cell panels on a 150V controller. Fortunately, I discovered this before it got too cold.
Solution? Rewire the panels to 2S? Hell no. That would have been 9P and would have blown the 70A PV input current limit. Pay the stupid tax and upgrade to a 250/100, swap it out and sell the 150/100 at a discount to some fortunate soul.
curiouscarbon
Science Penguin
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- Jun 29, 2020
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Brucey
Velcro Man
The logical end game for the Victron ecosystem seems to be a minimum of two 450/100 (for redundancy). Isolation of the PV array and a bunch of additional features that the 250s don't have, for not a lot more. Actual voltage limit being 8*battery float voltage I believe and 18A per tracker with the 450/100s having two strings each?
sunshine_eggo
Victron's little biatch
If I had been aware of the 450/100 at the time, I would have considered it over the 250/100. There might be a 450/200 in my future.
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