Victron is Over-priced Eurotrash. Why would anybody buy Victron over an AiO?

[agtcovert]

Given the displeasing self-consumption of the 10K, I'm on board for the 4X combo. Just be DILIGENT about your AC wiring. Units on the same phase MUST have identical wire resistance, AND you don't want to go too aggressive with your wire gauge per Wiring unlimited.

I think I've read wiring unlimited twice at this point in preparation. This is really the only thing that intimidates me.

My plan is fully stretch out the wires, mark and cut everything to length. Manual calls for 2 AWG, so that's my plan for AC-in and -out. AC-in will be disabled (probably by Node Red automations) and I plan to use a few different data points to turn it on for charging during the cheap rates we get between 11pm-5am if I need to supplement. I assume neutral for a given phase should match too?

Balancing the ACIn and ACOut wiring distance is critical to properly balance the inverters. And eggo just beat me to it AGAIN.

Haha, I appreciate both of you. And there's a decent chance I may ask for help when I get there, if I run into anything. My hope is if I'm methodical and measure everything I should be good.

I have the same plan for DC cabling to the bus bar. Everything will get laid out, marked, and cut exactly the same. I'm going to be running the house on another surprise while I rebuild, on my 'test' wall, because, well, who shouldn't have one. I blame all you f&@kers too, a little over a year and I've been completely corrupted.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I think I've read wiring unlimited twice at this point in preparation. This is really the only thing that intimidates me.

My plan is fully stretch out the wires, mark and cut everything to length. Manual calls for 2 AWG, so that's my plan for AC-in and -out. AC-in will be disabled (probably by Node Red automations) and I plan to use a few different data points to turn it on for charging during the cheap rates we get between 11pm-5am if I need to supplement. I assume neutral for a given phase should match too?

Yes.

Consider that AC sizes are based on transfer switch current + power assist current. If you're feeding off grid, I would consider turning of powerassist (feedback risk potential) and downsize wires unless it's unavoidable for a code compliance thing.

When you figure out node red, please teach me.

Haha, I appreciate both of you. And there's a decent chance I may ask for help when I get there, if I run into anything. My hope is if I'm methodical and measure everything I should be good.

You know how to find us.

I have the same plan for DC cabling to the bus bar. Everything will get laid out, marked, and cut exactly the same.

Good.

AC L1 and L2 don't need to identical between each other, just both on L1 and both on L2 need to be. Great if you can do both, but if you can save some copper, no harm.

I'm going to be running the house on another surprise while I rebuild, on my 'test' wall, because, well, who shouldn't have one. I blame all you f&@kers too, a little over a year and I've been completely corrupted.

Surprise?????



Here at Team Blue, we care about you... not necessarily your wallet.

 

[agtcovert]

Yes.

Consider that AC sizes are based on transfer switch current + power assist current. If you're feeding off grid, I would consider turning of powerassist (feedback risk potential) and downsize wires unless it's unavoidable for a code compliance thing.

Noted. I don't see much application for power assist in a non-mobile application anyway. Super useful in an RV though.

Based on that, would 4-6 AWG suffice? I have 2 AWG available, but if I don't need to use it so much the better. One 5kva, if we assume 5000W @ 120V -> 41.67 amps. That's in 6 AWG territory if I recall. I know these are capable of running over capacity for a period of time however. Most of the time, our house load is stable. Since I did System 1.0 and have data since late last September, I've got a pretty good idea of our load/usage. Maybe once or twice we've pushed 12000W total. Otherwise, we're usually well below that. My legs are fairly balanced too.

My power company cares not what I do behind the meter. I want my work to be as correct as it can be, but I am not under any specific rules.

When you figure out node red, please teach me.

Happy to.

Surprise?????

I may or may not have a Midnite AIO I picked up used awhile ago. For fun. Just need to get it on the wall and run a few wires to it.

Here at Team Blue, we care about you... not necessarily your wallet.

LOL

 

[outboard1196]

When you figure out node red, please teach me.

I'll teach you enough to be dangerous

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Noted. I don't see much application for power assist in a non-mobile application anyway. Super useful in an RV though.

If Generator is < 1.3X inverter power, PA is useful... trust me.

Based on that, would 4-6 AWG suffice? I have 2 AWG available, but if I don't need to use it so much the better. One 5kva, if we assume 5000W @ 120V -> 41.67 amps. That's in 6 AWG territory if I recall.

I used 6awg on my 2x 5K Quattros, but I'm purely off-grid with no grid access.

They will pass through whatever the ATS is rated for, and yours are 95A. You can always breaker it appropriately for less.

I know these are capable of running over capacity for a period of time however. Most of the time, our house load is stable. Since I did System 1.0 and have data since late last September, I've got a pretty good idea of our load/usage. Maybe once or twice we've pushed 12000W total. Otherwise, we're usually well below that. My legs are fairly balanced too.

Ratings-wise, the over-capacity is the 5000VA - 30 minute limit, though they can go longer if they stay cool. As long as they can maintain voltage and frequency without exceeding temperature limits, they won't overload even if above that. It's a delicate dance, and they have their limits...

My power company cares not what I do behind the meter. I want my work to be as correct as it can be, but I am not under any specific rules.

Abrupt changes in loads can result in PA feeding back to the AC source. It's very brief, but it happens. Power companies can sense it, so if that's not part of the agreement, then best to have it off.

Happy to.

I may or may not have a Midnite AIO I picked up used awhile ago. For fun. Just need to get it on the wall and run a few wires to it.

LOL

No judgment.

 

[ricardocello]

I may or may not have a Midnite AIO I picked up used awhile ago. For fun. Just need to get it on the wall and run a few wires to it.

Be sure to liberally apply this blue transparent tape for improved performance.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Worth roping in @Adam De Lay on this convo even if he only has two in split phase.

 

[WorldwideDave]

I've personally watched my own system get increasingly more accurate.

I'm confident in saying that there's no other company on the planet in this space that is this actively engaged with their user base.

I wish that for each feature there was a short video explaining it in plain english, preferably without a heavy european accent.

For example, the solar irradiation forecast, how it figures out your estimated solar generation in the future (think based on past), use cases for the relays, showing actual devices using them, streetlamp function, and what is the most you should connect to the load terminals on the 'starter' MPPTs, what an isolator is, the batteryconnect products in basic lab setup, etc. I'm a visual learner. I see that these products have WAY more features that I'm using because I don't understand them. And I own them anyway because they are so robust. But I think that if I am an owner using their products for almost a year now and I still don't know what some of these things are, then people seeking to buy their products must not know either. Guess I'm saying that they aren't doing the best job marketing the benefits other than everyone having them saying they are rock solid and 'just work'. I can't say that for the other 5-6 companies' products I've tried. Though I must say I do like the Outback stuff I've had, just don't like idle consumption vs. victron. I'd say outback/midnite has a marketing/value perception as well - they are crazy expensive, too.

 

[Adam De Lay]

Worth roping in @Adam De Lay on this convo even if he only has two in split phase.

I've only got 4Awg on my 5kVAs. I don't plan on charging from the grid unless absolutely necessary (which is near never) and even then I'm not pulling a large enough load to need to use the full passthrough of the inverters.

 

[agtcovert]

I've only got 4Awg on my 5kVAs. I don't plan on charging from the grid unless absolutely necessary (which is near never) and even then I'm not pulling a large enough load to need to use the full passthrough of the inverters.

I can also put a limit on that. The inverters I have now are capable of 240 amps DC charging. The 4 multis are 280. I run the existing inverters on 6 AWG fed by 60A breakers. I have been charging and sustaining loads around 20,000W combined without issue. 4 seems like a good middle ground.

I have 2 Chargverters I can use for supplemental charging and limit the MPs a bit more.

You using standard THHN?

 

[740GLE]

<delete> I'm over excited I think.

I have this problem, there are pills that do wonders.

 

[Adam De Lay]

You using standard THHN?

Yep

 

[outboard1196]

What's the standard ( pinout) for victron rj45 cables?

 

[Brucey]

What's the standard ( pinout) for victron rj45 cables?

Just RJ45 straight UTP cable.

5. Communication wiring

www.victronenergy.com

 

[outboard1196]

Just RJ45 straight UTP cable.

5. Communication wiring

www.victronenergy.com

As long as both ends have the same color to pin should be good? Just standard cable should work.

 

[740GLE]

As long as both ends have the same color to pin should be good? Just standard cable should work.

Yeah I had a slew of Ethernet cables from various stuff that worked both for the Mk3 USB converter and the VEbus BT dongle.

Sonos devices always had a nice shortest flat Ethernet cable that I squirled away.

 

[outboard1196]

Sometimes the victron literature has too much information you second guess yourself.

 

[ricardocello]

I wonder if “very off-putting” is as bad as 400 VAC on your house wiring?
(referencing an old EG4 thread I’ll never forget)

 

[bolhuijo]

Got any old ethernet cable lying around? Grab both ends and hold them side by side like this. You should see orange pair (1,2), green pair (3,6) straddling the blue pair (4,5), and brown pair (7,8). This is by far the most common (in the US anyhow)
If you see orange pair and green pair changing places from end to end, that's a crossover cable. (rare)

 

[outboard1196]

View attachment 292777

I wonder if “very off-putting” is as bad as 400 VAC on your house wiring?
(referencing an old EG4 thread I’ll never forget)

That reads like bad Chinese to English translation.

 

[ricardocello]

That reads like bad Chinese to English translation.

Dutch to English, more likely.

 

[NordicNerd]

My ‘little’ big Blue just came in. I’m getting the settings programmed this week then out to the cabin. Thanks to all in the group for the help over the last year.

 

[740GLE]

Looks familiar.

Check out Current connected video about those AC terminals. Their advice for “looping” the conductors really takes the guesswork out of fully inserted conductors.

Basically it’s including extra slack in each conductor and looping it up so when you insert each conductors it’s painless to make sure it hits the back of those terminals.

I used 8awg on my 24/3000 MPII in my AC out.

 

[HRTKD]

Here's the Current Connected video, starting just before the point where he talks about the "service loop". My 6 awg AC cables were way too damn stiff to be able to do this. I struggled just to get them in there.

 

[NordicNerd]

Here's the Current Connected video, starting just before the point where he talks about the "service loop". My 6 awg AC cables were way too damn stiff to be able to do this. I struggled just to get them in there.

Thanks - I’ll have 10 gauge into AC in from generator and 6 gauge at ac out 1. Using teck 90