Victron Multiplus - A/C output wiring questions

[mattleonard]

I've had a cheap 3,000w 24v inverter with duplex plugs built-in for a portable (hand-truck style) rig. I'm upgrading to a Victron Multiplus 3000/24 - but have some questions about AC output wiring - specifically on how to keep everything compact/portable, while also minimizing voltage loss.

Given ~25a output potential - I'd love to have (2) dedicated 20a circuits (knowing that I can't pull the full 20a, nor even a full 15a on both simultaneously) with duplex outlets on each. I'd love to minimize voltage loss (I often have some 50-100' cable runs on 10/3 SOOW), so want to use at least 10/3 wire on the cart too. Here are my questions:

1. Do I need to install a full breaker panel, and then also a separate 2-gang box? That's a lot of real estate on my little cart! Any more compact options, like a small 2-circuit breaker box that can have duplex outlets included?
   
   
2. I've seen folks just use a power strip (with a resettable fuse built-in), cutting the plug for bare wire into the inverter. But I'm not seeing many strips that have a thicker AWG wire - most are 12 at best, usually 14. Anything at 20a? This Trip-lite seems like a possible option, but unclear what gauge wire it uses, though it does have a 20a breaker, and both 15a and 20a outlets. (I would use two of these to have 2 "circuits")
   
   
3. What about wiring a L5-30 or L14-30 that could break out into Edison pigtails? Or could I go to a stand-alone power distribution box w/ the duplex? This would free up space on the cart, a locking plug would be nice, though it would be nice to have at least 1 onboard 15/20a Edison plug and not always require the separate box.
   
   
4. Do I need to use GFCI's (either outlets or breakers)? This is typically used outdoors, though strongly avoiding any chance of rain.

Thanks everyone!

 

[svetz]

1. Do I need to install a full breaker panel, and then also a separate 2-gang box? That's a lot of real estate on my little cart! Any more compact options, like a small 2-circuit breaker box that can have duplex outlets included?

You don't need a "full" breaker panel, even an inline fuse would do. If you want something off the shelf that looks spiffy and is compact, take a look at the boat/RV options and mount it to plywood. You can also get small DIN rail boxes.

3. ... a locking plug would be nice...

Zip tie it to plywood and you won't need locking plugs.

4. Do I need to use GFCI's (either outlets or breakers)? This is typically used outdoors, though strongly avoiding any chance of rain.

Stuff happens, so protection is always a good investment.

 

[Mex Rider]

Thought I might try to piggyback on this thread instead of starting the 10,000th Victron thread and it is another AC wiring question. Seems appropriate question for a "works in theory, practice, that's something else" kinda guy. My idea is to fabricate an AC "in" connection for the Multiplus charger function that is a short 10 AWG white, black, green pigtail with a three prong male plug hanging from the inverter so that for those very infrequent times when I may need the charger function I can just connect my fifty foot 10/3 extension cord to the pigtail. That would give me the ability to use the same extension cord to plug into the exterior 120 vac GFI receptacle at the rear of the van that is inverter powered.... one less expensive cable to buy and store. Any inherent problem with this setup/idea? Thanks for any thoughts/comments

 

[svetz]

Any inherent problem with this setup/idea?

I'm not 100% sure from the description what you're trying to do; is this just using a male-to-charger cable because the charger doesn't have a power cord? If so, that's probably fine (not familiar with Victron though ?, so your mileage may vary).

Or, is this a "Male-male" pigtail? If so, be aware they are akin to suicide cords, because the electrically "hot" end can have exposed connectors. It'll work, but if you have kids/spouses/friends that "help" out and don't really understand these things (or you're ever inebriated/frustrated/hurried) you might want to think twice about it. The "better" way to do this (assuming the connection point is always de-energized) would be to put a male plug on the input. That way accidents are less likely to happen.

 

[Mex Rider]

The Multiplus is both an inverter and a battery charger. All connections to the Multiplus must be hardwired and those hardwired connections are inside the inverter/charger case and not exposed. I am talking about having a male three prong plug hanging out (below the case) but it would never be hot because it is the input for shore power to the charger side of the device. For my AC output side of the inverter I will have a three prong receptacle box at the back of my van hardwired into the AC output of the inverter. What I am proposing is the ability to use one 10/3 extension cord to either connect to the male plug hanging from the charger side to furnish shore power, or plug the extension cord into the AC/out receptacle at the back of the van for power tools used outside the van. Hope that is clearer....

 

[HaldorEE]

The Multiplus is both an inverter and a battery charger. All connections to the Multiplus must be hardwired and those hardwired connections are inside the inverter/charger case and not exposed. I am talking about having a male three prong plug hanging out (below the case) but it would never be hot because it is the input for shore power to the charger side of the device. For my AC output side of the inverter I will have a three prong receptacle box at the back of my van hardwired into the AC output of the inverter. What I am proposing is the ability to use one 10/3 extension cord to either connect to the male plug hanging from the charger side to furnish shore power, or plug the extension cord into the AC/out receptacle at the back of the van for power tools used outside the van. Hope that is clearer....

I would use something like this.

https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Power-Inlets/Epicord/277-000137.html?feed=npn&gclid=CjwKCAjw0On8BRAgEiwAincsHLs0WzP8IuKBXgSdRAr_zyvv5vhwZa-LkO51mx9ScqMDLVzgfhSyYRoCLhkQAvD_BwE

 

[Mex Rider]

Yes, thanks, that is a good way to go and if I were starting with nothing and planned to use shore power regularly I would also. I had that type of installation on my boat for shore power but I am on a budget and won't be using shore power on any kind of regular basis so I am wanting to get the most out of my 50', 10/3 construction grade extension cord and not only use it to distance my table saw from the van when using inverter power but also to reverse it end for end and use it to feed shore power to the charger side of the inverter on those very odd times I need to charge the house batteries and don't have time to wait for the solar power to get the job done. I really am just looking for confirmation that there is nothing inherently wrong or dangerous in my approach..... thanks

 

[HaldorEE]

Yes, thanks, that is a good way to go and if I were starting with nothing and planned to use shore power regularly I would also. I had that type of installation on my boat for shore power but I am on a budget and won't be using shore power on any kind of regular basis so I am wanting to get the most out of my 50', 10/3 construction grade extension cord and not only use it to distance my table saw from the van when using inverter power but also to reverse it end for end and use it to feed shore power to the charger side of the inverter on those very odd times I need to charge the house batteries and don't have time to wait for the solar power to get the job done. I really am just looking for confirmation that there is nothing inherently wrong or dangerous in my approach..... thanks

Will recommends doing exactly that in his All-In-One video. I would spend the $21, but you have seen the system I am designing. Obviously cost is not a concern for me.

 

[Mex Rider]

Will recommends doing exactly that in his All-In-One video. I would spend the $21, but you have seen the system I am designing. Obviously cost is not a concern for me.I did find the Will Prowse video looking further and it is exactly what I have in mind on the AC input side. Doing a Siemens distribution center with 3 circuits and breakers on the output. I haven't skimped any where, just don't want another heavy, expensive, space consuming cable. I much appreciate your help and input...thanks.

Yes, but you are omitting the cost of the twist lock 30 amp extension cord and the wiring from the inverter to the twist lock converter as well as the side issue of do I really want to cut a hole in the side of my van. Which video of Will's are referencing? "All in one" brings up the titan solar generator....?

 

[Mex Rider]

I found the video, thanks for your help