Victron Multiplus cool functionality

[sneil]

So just to be clear, ‘ignore AC power’ causes the internal transfer relays to open and the electrical system is essentially operating in off grid mode.

And this also means no 240VAC loads can be powered when in ‘Ignore AC Power’ mode.

And finally, whenever a 120VAC load is powered by L2, it’s abruptly changing phases whenever the Multiplus II 2x120V is switching from ‘ignoring’ AC power to passing it through.

It is my understanding that when ignore AC input is active those internal transfer relays are open, the same as if not connected to shore power. In my setup, I don't see any incoming AC being reported by the MP II when ignore AC input is active.

 

[fafrd]

It is my understanding that when ignore AC input is active those internal transfer relays are open, the same as if not connected to shore power. In my setup, I don't see any incoming AC being reported by the MP II when ignore AC input is active.

Got it.

That means the External CT sensor cannot be used in Ignore AC mode.

I’ve got to figure out what Victron calls the mode where you leave the Multiplus II connected to shores/ grid power but use the optional external CT sensor to push enough power out through the AC input to offset he loads that the external CT sensor is measuring there..,

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Very curious to understand what capability the Multiplus II 2x120V supports using the external CT sensor???

I would not expect any additional functionality of the MP-II over the standard MP when operating it as you describe.

 

[fafrd]

I would not expect any additional functionality of the MP-II over the standard MP when operating it as you describe.

Spoke to a vendor who knew the Victron offerings well and unfortunately he told me that:

‘None of the Victron Inverters including the new Multiplus II 129x2 support any Solark-like offset compensation on the AC-input side.’

Disappointing, but at least he’s helped me cut my wild goose chase short.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Spoke to a vendor who knew the Victron offerings well and unfortunately he told me that:

‘None of the Victron Inverters including the new Multiplus II 129x2 support any Solark-like offset compensation on the AC-input side.’

Disappointing, but at least he’s helped me cut my wild goose chase short.

I think it's grid code dependent. In the EU with the appropriate grid code, which requires a password, folks use them as you describe.

 

[fafrd]

I think it's grid code dependent. In the EU with the appropriate grid code, which requires a password, folks use them as you describe.

But none of the 120VAC models sell over there, correct?

I really don’t understand the issue they have - CT-sensor-limited consumption offset of loads on AC input is precisely the capability that Solark got listed.

In fact, the rep said ‘oh, you want Solark-like functionality to offset loads that are not on the Critical Loads Panel limited by a CT sendor - you won’t get that from Victron…’

The 24VDC hybrid market here in the US could be theirs if they had the tiniest bit of vision…

As it is, there are still no UL-Listed 24V Hybrids that will offset liads on the AC input.

Solark sets the standard, but only at 48VDC.

Schneider Conext SW falls short where the XW Pro offers the capability and at a fraction if the cost of Solark, but only at 48V.

Looks like another year of Hurry Up And Wait…

 

[JMR53]

@JMR53

It is usually best to start your own thread to solve a problem.

But I will try to help…

To start, we need to know all the details on your system.
System:
What inverter are you using?
What size of wires between batteries and inverter?
What type of fuse is heating up?
What battery capacity do you have?

Load
How many watts is the big load (water heater) using?
How much other load is on your system?

Other, do you have any other pieces of equipment installed that can help troubleshoot? Smartshunt? Cerbo? Clamp on Multimeter that reads amps?

My guess is you may be overloading your system with the water heater. But we need to figure it out first.

@JMR53

It is usually best to start your own thread to solve a problem.

But I will try to help…

To start, we need to know all the details on your system.
System:
What inverter are you using?
What size of wires between batteries and inverter?
What type of fuse is heating up?
What battery capacity do you have?

Load
How many watts is the big load (water heater) using?
How much other load is on your system?

Other, do you have any other pieces of equipment installed that can help troubleshoot? Smartshunt? Cerbo? Clamp on Multimeter that reads amps?

My guess is you may be overloading your system with the water heater. But we need to figure it out first.

Hi Rocketman,

Please Excuse me for this delay. Thank you for taking the time to address my concern. My late reply is because my Laptop power cord for sometime have not been powering my computer and it was showing an incorrect battery percentage and it was shutting down, I had to go buy a new cord. I understand that I should do my owen thread, but to be honest I still don’t understand how to make a post to my issue. And sometime if I am doing it right, I don’t see any reply. So is for this reason that I try to ask for help in this simple way. Please understand.

In regard to my Electrical Problem, I hope I can give you as much information as requested and that with your help, my problem will be solve.

Starting with the inverter...

1. I have a Victron 3000 MultiPlus. 12v/50Amp/3000

2. Wire between Battery and Inverter is 4/0

3. The fuse size is 350Amp

4. 3- Battle Burn 12V Battery at 100Amp each


Load: The fallowing Items is intended only for use one Item at a time for a load, witch I have not been able to use.

1. Water Heater Spec. 120v / 12Amp/ 1500w. it actually runs at 1712-1714w= Wire size 16AWG ?

2. Oven: 120v/ 15Amp/ 1800w= Wire size 14 AWG

3. Induction Stove Top: 120v/ 15Amp/ 2000w each burner. Max Load 4000w=Wire size 14AWG

4. Fridge: 120v/ 5Amp /50w

5. TV: 120v/ 2Amp /50w



My electrical wirrering was done with 14AWG. My intention with using any of my Appliances is base on the wire size, the circuit breaker and the fuse size. I have a 20A circuit breaker for the Oven and one for the Induction Stove top. I also have a circuit breaker for one line that will be feeding my Tv, Fridge and Water heater only when TV is not on.



My Water Heater is a 12Amp, My Fridge is 5Amps and my TV is 2Amps Just making sure that I’m not pulling more Amps on this line, more then intended- 15 to 18 Amps. So if my electrical is done correctly I think I am good to go without worrying about burning any wire. So the fuse should not be heating up to a red state, but then again I am not 100% correct on the way I set up my electrical. Sofa I’ve been living in my Van for a Month and a few days. Nothing going wrong in except to the fuse issue. Please help, Thank you.

Ps. 14AWG can handle up to 20Amps, is this true?



Jose.

@JMR53

It is usually best to start your own thread to solve a problem.

But I will try to help…

To start, we need to know all the details on your system.
System:
What inverter are you using?
What size of wires between batteries and inverter?
What type of fuse is heating up?
What battery capacity do you have?

Load
How many watts is the big load (water heater) using?
How much other load is on your system?

Other, do you have any other pieces of equipment installed that can help troubleshoot? Smartshunt? Cerbo? Clamp on Multimeter that reads amps?

My guess is you may be overloading your system with the water heater. But we need to figure it out first.

 

[BradCagle]

I was going over the the MP II settings during the install and ran across a new (to me) feature called AC input control. After reading the details of what you can do with it I decided to give a try. MP II AC Input Control allows me to selectively decide when to ignore the AC coming in from shore power if I have enough battery capacity, adequate solar and even inverter load. I've been testing this out over the past couple of days and it's working quite well.

That's awesome. I was actually curious if you could do this with any of the MP's. Now I know!

I have a Victron MPPT 150/85 on the way. That will be my introduction into Victron. Now I'm even more itching to just grab a MP II

This tends to not go well with some, but I would take this modular approach over all the AIO/Hybrids any day.

 

[fafrd]

That's awesome. I was actually curious if you could do this with any of the MP's. Now I know!

I have a Victron MPPT 150/85 on the way. That will be my introduction into Victron. Now I'm even more itching to just grab a MP II

This tends to not go well with some, but I would take this modular approach over all the AIO/Hybrids any day.

A question about that ‘ignore AC input’ feature:

Does that cause the internal transfer switch to actually open do that the critical loads panel is electrically isolated from the grid?

If yes, is there some technology monitoring grid phase so that the battery-powered AC remains in sync with the ‘ignited’ AC input do that when the inverter leaves ‘ignore AC input’ mode and closes the internal transfer switch again, there is no hiccup / abrupt shift of phase?

 

[BradCagle]

A question about that ‘ignore AC input’ feature:

Does that cause the internal transfer switch to actually open do that the critical loads panel is electrically isolated from the grid?

If yes, is there some technology monitoring grid phase so that the battery-powered AC remains in sync with the ‘ignited’ AC input do that when the inverter leaves ‘ignore AC input’ mode and closes the internal transfer switch again, there is no hiccup / abrupt shift of phase?

I dunno, I don't have a MP, yet

 

[fafrd]

I dunno, I don't have a MP, yet

I wait to hear what you have to report after you get one then. What is your use case?

 

[sneil]

A question about that ‘ignore AC input’ feature:

Does that cause the internal transfer switch to actually open do that the critical loads panel is electrically isolated from the grid?

It doesn't detail the relay status in the documentation that I could see. From my experience though, I think those relays are opened. When enabling the "Ignore AC Input" I heard relays opening in the MP II and no grid input was shown on the CCGX or VRM.

 

[cinergi]

A question about that ‘ignore AC input’ feature:

Does that cause the internal transfer switch to actually open do that the critical loads panel is electrically isolated from the grid?

If yes, is there some technology monitoring grid phase so that the battery-powered AC remains in sync with the ‘ignited’ AC input do that when the inverter leaves ‘ignore AC input’ mode and closes the internal transfer switch again, there is no hiccup / abrupt shift of phase?

yes it opens/disconnects. I don't know if it constantly stays in sync but it will always sync before connecting AFAIK. I use this feature all the time.

 

[Rocketman]

Hi Rocketman,

Please Excuse me for this delay. Thank you for taking the time to address my concern. My late reply is because my Laptop power cord for sometime have not been powering my computer and it was showing an incorrect battery percentage and it was shutting down, I had to go buy a new cord. I understand that I should do my owen thread, but to be honest I still don’t understand how to make a post to my issue. And sometime if I am doing it right, I don’t see any reply. So is for this reason that I try to ask for help in this simple way. Please understand.

In regard to my Electrical Problem, I hope I can give you as much information as requested and that with your help, my problem will be solve.

Starting with the inverter...

1. I have a Victron 3000 MultiPlus. 12v/50Amp/3000

2. Wire between Battery and Inverter is 4/0

3. The fuse size is 350Amp

4. 3- Battle Burn 12V Battery at 100Amp each


Load: The fallowing Items is intended only for use one Item at a time for a load, witch I have not been able to use.

1. Water Heater Spec. 120v / 12Amp/ 1500w. it actually runs at 1712-1714w= Wire size 16AWG ?

2. Oven: 120v/ 15Amp/ 1800w= Wire size 14 AWG

3. Induction Stove Top: 120v/ 15Amp/ 2000w each burner. Max Load 4000w=Wire size 14AWG

4. Fridge: 120v/ 5Amp /50w

5. TV: 120v/ 2Amp /50w



My electrical wirrering was done with 14AWG. My intention with using any of my Appliances is base on the wire size, the circuit breaker and the fuse size. I have a 20A circuit breaker for the Oven and one for the Induction Stove top. I also have a circuit breaker for one line that will be feeding my Tv, Fridge and Water heater only when TV is not on.



My Water Heater is a 12Amp, My Fridge is 5Amps and my TV is 2Amps Just making sure that I’m not pulling more Amps on this line, more then intended- 15 to 18 Amps. So if my electrical is done correctly I think I am good to go without worrying about burning any wire. So the fuse should not be heating up to a red state, but then again I am not 100% correct on the way I set up my electrical. Sofa I’ve been living in my Van for a Month and a few days. Nothing going wrong in except to the fuse issue. Please help, Thank you.

Ps. 14AWG can handle up to 20Amps, is this true?



Jose.

14awg is rated for 15amps
12awg is rated for 20 amps
16awg is rated for 10amps? (If I remember this one correctly). Make sure the water heater is 14awg wire not 16awg.

The reason the fuse is getting hot is probably because it’s doing it’s job. With the amount of current you are pushing through it - it will get hot. Compare the size (in metal) to the 4/0 wire, the fuse is much smaller and will get much hotter. I would make sure you have a backup fuse for if/when the fuse blows.

Also, you are running your Multiplus right at its max. If you look at the data sheet, As long as the Multiplus is below 77degrees you get 2400watts. At 104degrees you get 2200 watts, as it gets hot and hits 150 degrees you only get 1700 watts.

Do you have a GX device attached to the Multiplus? For example a Cerbo or CCGX? Get it registered on VRM, that can let you know the warnings as well as why the Multiplus shutdown.

Also, do you have a Smartshunt or BMV712 so you can keep track of how full or empty the batteries are? That info is priceless to me in my MotorHome.

Good Luck

 

[naomig]

I had a MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50 120V installed in our 5th wheel along with a Victron MPPT 150/85 and 300Ah (3 x 100Ah) Battleborn batteries. Everything worked great with that Multiplus, but I had an opportunity to upgrade to the new MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 2x120V.

I was going over the the MP II settings during the install and ran across a new (to me) feature called AC input control. After reading the details of what you can do with it I decided to give a try. MP II AC Input Control allows me to selectively decide when to ignore the AC coming in from shore power if I have enough battery capacity, adequate solar and even inverter load. I've been testing this out over the past couple of days and it's working quite well.

I set the MP II to use the following Load & Battery conditions:

• ignore AC input if the load is 1000W or less for 30 seconds
• accept AC input if the load goes above 1500W for 1 minute
• accept AC input if SOC drops below 50%
• ignore AC input after absorption finished

I've only had this setup a couple of days and so far it seems to work perfectly. I'm now seeing PV and battery being preferred until the SOC drops below 50% then the AC is accepted and charges the battery bank back up and then ignores the AC input again. This has reduced the amount of time I'm using shore power which is what I was looking to do and do it automatically. With electric costs increasing I think this will help in reducing those costs.

I hadn't seen anything about this feature and thought others might find it useful. As a bonus, I was able to set this up using the Victron Connect app (and MK3 dongle) instead of having to use VE Configure.

Your link is gone, do you how we can find that?

 

[Rocketman]

Adam did a great video on that very subject.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

14awg is rated for 15amps
12awg is rated for 20 amps
16awg is rated for 10amps? (If I remember this one correctly). Make sure the water heater is 14awg wire not 16awg.

For household wiring,

10:30A
12:15A
14:10A