Victron Multiplus in Tight Spaces.

[Hovanic]

I am starting to work out my plans for moving batteries (currently lead acid stored in an outside compartment) and installing a Victron Multiplus 3000 inside the RV. (2016 Thor ACE 27.1) The most logical space is under the Dinette. Most all the electrical is there anyway. I will have to remove some blocking that is protecting some heater vents. to open the area up a bit but it is still pretty tight. The Multiplus will have to be installed horizontally which I have seen in some van builds. Im not sure I would have the recommended 10cm clearance.

The area that will house 2 - DIY 280AH 12V Batteries, Multiplus, SCC, Buss Bars and fuses ect. is approximatly 14-1/4" tall x 17-1/4" wide x 51" long.
Multiplus 3000 is 14.3"x10.2"x8.6"

I am worried about heat build up in such a tight area and the Multiplus not being vertical. Would love some insight about my plan. I have a couple other questions but I will keep researching them before I ask. I attached some pictures to help.

Thank you.

 

[gnubie]

It should be mounted vertically as that is how the air flow is intended. It needs good surrounding ventilation too. That situation won't provide that surrounding ventilation without a fan. Even if there is a fan tests would need to be done to ensure there was enough air flow through the enclosure, and in such a way that the fan in the multiplus could draw sufficient air through the itself to control its temperature, with the covers of the enclosure in place. The multiplus would be running its fan more often and at a higher speed than in a proper installation too.

Basically, IMO, don't do it.

 

[snoobler]

My Quattro moves a LOT of air, and I would be concerned about it getting enough air for cooling in a compartment that size.

 

[HRTKD]

I moved my LiFePO4 batteries into an interior empty space that is about 1/3 the size of what you're looking at. This is two 280 Ah 12v batteries. Within that same space I have two solar charge controllers, breakers, switch, shunt, inverter and converter. My 1,000 watt Xantrex MSW inverter is putting out enough heat that I'm going to have to add forced ventilation (thermostat based) or move the inverter out of the space.

A Multiplus or Quattro is on my list of long term upgrades. Neither would fit in my current space so putting it there isn't a consideration. But the closet above this space is where I would put the new unit. I would be adding passive ventilation at the start and active ventilation if the passive doesn't cut it.

 

[Hovanic]

I moved my LiFePO4 batteries into an interior empty space that is about 1/3 the size of what you're looking at. This is two 280 Ah 12v batteries. Within that same space I have two solar charge controllers, breakers, switch, shunt, inverter and converter. My 1,000 watt Xantrex MSW inverter is putting out enough heat that I'm going to have to add forced ventilation (thermostat based) or move the inverter out of the space.

A Multiplus or Quattro is on my list of long term upgrades. Neither would fit in my current space so putting it there isn't a consideration. But the closet above this space is where I would put the new unit. I would be adding passive ventilation at the start and active ventilation if the passive doesn't cut it.

Have you recorded any temperature measurements in the space as it sits now under use?

 

[HRTKD]

Have you recorded any temperature measurements in the space as it sits now under use?

No. It's at the storage lot now and won't be next used until the latter part of October. Given that it was chilly out when I was last using it, the space was "pleasantly warm", but not hot. I have a vague recollection of my BMV-712 reporting a battery post temperature of 72° F.

 

[bikenanigans]

Planning to put a MultiPlus 24/2000 in a similarly small space so this is good info. Increased ventilation was already in the plans but current design has it horizontal in a bench. I thought I had read horizontal was ok with adequate airflow but now I’m doubting myself and thinking an email to Victron is in order.

 

[Hovanic]

@bikenanigans - Please report back what you find. I really have no other place to put everything.

I am investigating using a Go Power IC-2000 or 3000. Less features than the MultiPlus but it has a smaller footprint and can be mounted any direction.

 

[gnubie]

Using a different device won't solve your fundamental heat problem. Infact, if it turns out that the alternate device has an overall lower efficiency it can actually make the situation worse.

 

[Hovanic]

Using a different device won't solve your fundamental heat problem. Infact, if it turns out that the alternate device has an overall lower efficiency it can actually make the situation worse.

This is true. Some passive or active heat control will more than likely need to happen. The IC-2000/3000 allows for mounting in any direction which in my case may allow better ventilation than the Multiplus mounted horizontal (as this is the only option).

I guess the reason I asked this question was to find some real world use cases. The Internet has shown the Multiplus stuffed in some pretty tight spaces. Unfortunately It has not been good talking about heat build up or longevity of the product due to its poor location.

 

[Hovanic]

Did some investigation on my install location. If I remove the right most heating duct and the it’s protection it gives me an area of 21” deep x 26” wide and 14-1/4” tall.
the vent hole could be used with a fan to pull heat or push cool air around the inverter charger. The area is not air tight so I could play with the air flow and add another vent at the other end if needed.
If the Multiplus can lay on its side it may fit with a couple inches top and bottom, 5-6” left to right and about 12 out front.

 

[HRTKD]

I was going to suggest that you raise the dinette to give you more space to work with, but after looking at your original pictures, I think that would be a lot of work. (It took me a while to figure that those are seatbelts in the enclosure.) It looks like the seat cushions tuck under the back cushions, so you can't just raise the height of the seat cushion.

Any idea what is directly under that space? Maybe you could cut out a section of the floor and lower the height a bit.

My trailer is 14 years old, so I have no qualms about tearing things up. Yours looks to be in better condition.

 

[Hovanic]

Propane and wet bay are under this area. Outside compartments on this coach are all too small to house everything. One of the trade offs for a small (28’) coach.

 

[bpal]

Here's what Victron says about horizontal mounting: (link). They recommend some sort of fan cooling.

I just bought one of these thermal fan controllers together with a Noctua 24v PWM fan. This controller lets you set a low and a high temperature set point and it varies the fan speed proportionally between the 2 set points. You set a minimum fan speed. I believe it has, but I haven't tested a low temp fan shutoff. It also has a relay output and a high alarm output. There are other fan controllers that can control multiple fans.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083R9KX83

 

[Mex Rider]

Planning to put a MultiPlus 24/2000 in a similarly small space so this is good info. Increased ventilation was already in the plans but current design has it horizontal in a bench. I thought I had read horizontal was ok with adequate airflow but now I’m doubting myself and thinking an email to Victron is in order.

Victron says it maybe installed horozantal but recommends vertical for designed airflow direction

 

[snoobler]

Victron says it maybe installed horozantal but recommends vertical for designed airflow direction

Thanks for that. Probably less critical for the Multi/Quattro since they have active cooling. The SCC must be mounted vertically, or they don't cool well at all.

 

[HaldorEE]

Here's what Victron says about horizontal mounting: (link). They recommend some sort of fan cooling.

I just bought one of these thermal fan controllers together with a Noctua 24v PWM fan. This controller lets you set a low and a high temperature set point and it varies the fan speed proportionally between the 2 set points. You set a minimum fan speed. I believe it has, but I haven't tested a low temp fan shutoff. It also has a relay output and a high alarm output. There are other fan controllers that can control multiple fans.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083R9KX83

If you are using not using a PWM controllable Brushless DC fan, you don't want to use the fan speed control. I bought a Comair Rotron Patriot DC fan for ventilation in my van and it specifically states that the fan speed is not voltage controlled. They make a version that lets you control the speed externally with a resistor, but the surplus unit I bought (for 1/5th the retail price) doesn't have this.

That Noctua is a good looking fan. The variable speed control and IP67 rating are very nice.

-Edit-

I just bought one. Thanks for the info.

Amazon.com: Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-24V-3000 Q100 IP67 PWM, Heavy Duty Cooling Fan, 4-Pin, 3000 RPM, 24V Version (140mm, Black): Computers & Accessories

Buy Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-24V-3000 Q100 IP67 PWM, Heavy Duty Cooling Fan, 4-Pin, 3000 RPM, 24V Version (140mm, Black): Case Fans - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Only negative comments are that it is loud at full speed. I will compare it to the Comair and decide which one to use.

 

[Heap64]

I'm looking at using something like this.

Amazon.com

And a couple more sister fans setup to push and pull air under our bed for my battery and Multiplus install. I have enough height to mount vertical, but I'm still concerned with having that and a solar charger controller all in the same space.

 

[Mex Rider]

I'm looking at using something like this.

Amazon.com

And a couple more sister fans setup to push and pull air under our bed for my battery and Multiplus install. I have enough height to mount vertical, but I'm still concerned with having that and a solar charger controller all in the same space.

All my electrical is under my bed (the garage) and my Multiplus is mounted vertically. I also have one of those AC Infinity fans exhausting air/heat out of the back of the garage, meaning it can rise between headboard and rear doors or exhaust out the rear when cracked or open. I have one of those latch extensions that allows the door to be cracked open a small amount but still locked. In the photo the batteries are removed as it is still around 100 F in the afternoon.

 

[HaldorEE]

All my electrical is under my bed (the garage) and my Multiplus is mounted vertically. I also have one of those AC Infinity fans exhausting air/heat out of the back of the garage, meaning it can rise between headboard and rear doors or exhaust out the rear when cracked or open. I have one of those latch extensions that allows the door to be cracked open a small amount but still locked. In the photo the batteries are removed as it is still around 100 F in the afternoon.

Nicely installed.