Victron? Need Help Determining Components

[Over9000]

Hello Folks,

I'm now in the final stages of picking out equipment to replace my Renogy RVR60 MPPT (link) and 1000W Inverter (which is on the fritz) and am looking to take the jump to Victron (unless someone else has a better suggestion). To my understanding, Victron is pretty bulletproof. I just care that I can have a reliable system, low self-consumption, and fully observable over WiFi.

I have (4) 100W Renogy Panels (link) with VoC of 24.3 but I intend to upgrade to (5) of them, so total would go from 121.5V to 145.8V.

Question: What is your recommended equipment for me to get 2kW of 120Vac ?

My current thoughts are:

• MPPT = Victron 150/35 (link)
• Inverter Choice #1a = MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 2000VA 120V (link)
  • Note: 1W extra of Zero Load Power vs. Inverter Choice #2a
• Inverter Choice #2a = MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 12/2000/80 (link)
• Wi-Fi Product = Cerbo GX (link)
• Shunt = IP21 SmartShunt 300A
• VE Direct Cables?

I have no idea if I need more equipment for connecting the inverters to the Cerbo GX, but I do know that the MPPT has built-in Bluetooth which will connect to it without an issue.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you!

 

[Madcodger]

The resident Victron guru is @sunshine_eggo whom I have now attempted to conjure up. I'd listen to him, but here's my experience:

First, you're in Michigan so it gets cold. Your 145 V will likely go much higher when it's very cold outside (above 150), and that will fry your charge controller. Victron has an excellent, free, online tool to help you size your charge controller so search for and use that. As a rule of thumb I typically plan on as much as a 25% increase in voltage here in Maine so at 4 panels you're just over the "safety" limit, but I am admittedly conservative.

I have that little Victron inverter powering my "office shed" and it's awesome. Keep in mind the KVA is not technically the same as watts but it's pretty close, for planning. I assume 1800 watts with some surge capacity over that and it has worked well. BTW I previously had a 3 KVA Multiplus II at another property (also powering my office) and it was also great. I just didn't need all the features this time.

You'll need the correct cables to connect to the Cerbo GX and as I recall you cannot do it using Bluetooth. But I don't use a Cerbo and instead monitor using a Victron Smart Shunt and a Raspberry Pi that runs Victron's free Venus OS. From memory, I needed a VE Direct to USB for both the MPPT and the Smart shunt, and a different VE Can to USB cable (Victron has a special name for,it that I can't recall) for the inverter (3 cables total)

For a small system as you describe, I don't think you can beat Victron. I use EG4 in our main house and am very happy with it, but it's much too loud for a small space like a cabin or office in a single room. The Victron is quiet as a mouse and rock solid reliable. BTW, a great retailer can make this a lot less painful and even less expensive. I recommend Current Connected. Their CTO is @HighTechLab on here.

 

[Q-Dog]

If you have 2 kW loads you will need something bigger. The 2000 Va Victron can only do 1600 watts continuous. The 3000 Va units can do 2400 watts continuous.

 

[Over9000]

The resident Victron guru is @sunshine_eggo whom I have now attempted to conjure up. I'd listen to him, but here's my experience:

First, you're in Michigan so it gets cold. Your 145 V will likely go much higher when it's very cold outside (above 150), and that will fry your charge controller. Victron has an excellent, free, online tool to help you size your charge controller so search for and use that. As a rule of thumb I typically plan on as much as a 25% increase in voltage here in Maine so at 4 panels you're just over the "safety" limit, but I am admittedly conservative.

Please see the attached screenshot from using their online tool.

If you have 2 kW loads you will need something bigger. The 2000 Va Victron can only do 1600 watts continuous. The 3000 Va units can do 2400 watts continuous.

My max continuous load is 1700W. Typical would be around 1000W.

 

[Brucey]

Hello Folks,

I'm now in the final stages of picking out equipment to replace my Renogy RVR60 MPPT (link) and 1000W Inverter (which is on the fritz) and am looking to take the jump to Victron (unless someone else has a better suggestion). To my understanding, Victron is pretty bulletproof. I just care that I can have a reliable system, low self-consumption, and fully observable over WiFi.

I have (4) 100W Renogy Panels (link) with VoC of 24.3 but I intend to upgrade to (5) of them, so total would go from 121.5V to 145.8V.

Question: What is your recommended equipment for me to get 2kW of 120Vac ?

My current thoughts are:

• MPPT = Victron 150/35 (link)
• Inverter Choice #1a = MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 2000VA 120V (link)
  • The Good: Supports 12/24/48V
  • The Bad: 1W extra of Zero Load Power
• Inverter Choice #2a = MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 12/2000/80 (link)
• Wi-Fi Product = Cerbo GX (link)

I have no idea if I need more equipment for connecting the inverters to the Cerbo GX, but I do know that the MPPT has built-in Bluetooth which will connect to it without an issue.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you!

Cerbo doesnt use bluetooth for comms to any Victron "smart" device, has to be physical connection via ve.direct or ve.can for their sccs. But that's easy enough with a ve.direct cable to your 150/35.

Inverter to cerbo is standard ethernet (for ve bus).

 

[Brucey]

Inverter Choice #1a = MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 2000VA 120V (link)

• The Good: Supports 12/24/48V

Victron inverters are fixed voltage, either 12, 24 or 48V depending on model.

Many of their sccs can support all those plus 36V but there's no such thing as an auto adjusting victron inverter. What is your battery configuration?

Looks like you are missing a smartshunt to allow you to accurately track state of charge of your batteries.

 

[Over9000]

Cerbo doesnt use bluetooth for comms to any Victron "smart" device, has to be physical connection via ve.direct or ve.can for their sccs. But that's easy enough with a ve.direct cable to your 150/35.

Inverter to cerbo is standard ethernet (for ve bus).

So which items do I need for connecting the charge controller to the Cerbo?

Victron inverters are fixed voltage, either 12, 24 or 48V depending on model.

Many of their sccs can support all those plus 36V but there's no such thing as an auto adjusting victron inverter. What is your battery configuration?

Looks like you are missing a smartshunt to allow you to accurately track state of charge of your batteries.

My setup is 12V but if / when the battery dies, I could replace it with 48V and keep the same charge controller and inverter (option #1a).

Thanks for the reminder about the shunt.

If I wanted to use a display to show what's going on (and that display would be about 15m away from the hardware units), which equipment would I need?

 

[Madcodger]

I do not believe you can keep the same inverter if going from 12V to a different voltage. Suggest double checking that.

 

[Madcodger]

Please see the attached screenshot from using their online tool.

It looks like you used a temp of -20C. That’s only -4F. You’re in Michigan. I think it gets much colder than -4F there. Suggest you plan for worst case scenario. Magic smoke (bad) takes only a second to appear from a SCC that goes over voltage. Personally, I use -20-25F here in Maine.

 

[Q-Dog]

My setup is 12V but if / when the battery dies, I could replace it with 48V and keep the same charge controller and inverter (option #1a).

No, the inverters DO NOT have variable voltage inputs. If you switch system voltage you need a different inverter.

 

[Brucey]

My setup is 12V but if / when the battery dies, I could replace it with 48V and keep the same charge controller and inverter (option #1a).

No you can't, these three inverters are three different models, each for 12, 24 or 48V

 

[Brucey]

Please see the attached screenshot from using their online tool.



My max continuous load is 1700W. Typical would be around 1000W.

Dont confuse the inverter output with the scc output.

When you used that calculator you must have used three panels in series, try it with 5 in series.

 

[Over9000]

@Brucey - See the results from the calculator. Even at -40C, it still has the same recommendation for (5) in series.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Hello Folks,

I'm now in the final stages of picking out equipment to replace my Renogy RVR60 MPPT (link) and 1000W Inverter (which is on the fritz) and am looking to take the jump to Victron (unless someone else has a better suggestion). To my understanding, Victron is pretty bulletproof. I just care that I can have a reliable system, low self-consumption, and fully observable over WiFi.

Cerbo must have internet access to log data to VRM cloud. If you're looking for a purely local solution, it's possible, but it's more complicated.

I have (4) 100W Renogy Panels (link) with VoC of 24.3 but I intend to upgrade to (5) of them, so total would go from 121.5V to 145.8V.

24.3 * 5 = 121.5Voc

Not sure why you're indicating 145.8V

Question: What is your recommended equipment for me to get 2kW of 120Vac ?

My current thoughts are:

• MPPT = Victron 150/35 (link)

35A * 14.4V = 504W

• Inverter Choice #1a = MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 2000VA 120V (link)
  • Note: 1W extra of Zero Load Power vs. Inverter Choice #2a
• Inverter Choice #2a = MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 12/2000/80 (link)

Confirming DC voltage of inverter/chargers are FIXED. Change system voltage, change inverter/charger.

• Wi-Fi Product = Cerbo GX (link)
• Shunt = IP21 SmartShunt 300A
• VE Direct Cables?

I have no idea if I need more equipment for connecting the inverters to the Cerbo GX, but I do know that the MPPT has built-in Bluetooth which will connect to it without an issue.

Confirming need VE.Direct for MPPT to Cerbo. Cerbo does not connect with any major devices via bluetooth.

Your needs seem poorly defined:

My max continuous load is 1700W. Typical would be around 1000W.

By saying "typical" do you mean your "average" load will be 1000W?

Have you conducted an energy audit to actually identify the devices and the daily kWh they will need (see link #1 in my sig)?

On a great day of solar with 500W of PV, you'll be able to power the 1000W load for about 2.5 hours in the summer. WAY less in the winter.

 

[Over9000]

Cerbo must have internet access to log data to VRM cloud. If you're looking for a purely local solution, it's possible, but it's more complicated.



24.3 * 5 = 121.5Voc

Not sure why you're indicating 145.8V



35A * 14.4V = 504W



Confirming DC voltage of inverter/chargers are FIXED. Change system voltage, change inverter/charger.



Confirming need VE.Direct for MPPT to Cerbo. Cerbo does not connect with any major devices via bluetooth.

Your needs seem poorly defined:



By saying "typical" do you mean your "average" load will be 1000W?

Have you conducted an energy audit to actually identify the devices and the daily kWh they will need (see link #1 in my sig)?

On a great day of solar with 500W of PV, you'll be able to power the 1000W load for about 2.5 hours in the summer. WAY less in the winter.

Thank you for the feedback! A few key points:

• This setup would be powering my AT&T Wi/Fi Modem, so there is WiFi for the Cerbo to connect to.
• There was a math error in the 5x VoC calculation (thank you for correcting that)
• I recognize that there are different SKUs and that the inverters are either 12V, 24V, or 48V

I don't know anything about VE.Direct but I want to have access to seeing my MPPT output vs. Inverter Output vs. Battery Measurement (Shunt). I think I'll maybe need (2) VE.Direct cables? and then the Cerbo GX will connect to the WiFi and I can access it from my phone.

My needs are not poorly defined - in fact, they're about (5) years of measuring to confirm them (given my current setup).

Case #1 (50% of the year):

• 831.89W of typical usage. When multiplied times the # of hours they'll run, about 2667.56 Wh per day

Case #2 (25% of the year):

• 823W of typical usage, or 1863 Wh per day.

Case #3 (25% of the year):

• Case #1 + Case #2 = 1654 W, or 4530 Wh per day

Now, my panels are (5) 100W which in real conditions are providing about 300W / hr. So I would need 9 hrs of good sunlight for Case #1, 6 hrs for Case #2, and 15 hrs for Case #3.

Since that's unrealistic, I'm going to "grid tie" the inverter to the output I have from my "big solar setup" which is a 7.6kW inverter supported by 4140 W / hr.

I hope this helps!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Thank you for the feedback! A few key points:

• This setup would be powering my AT&T Wi/Fi Modem, so there is WiFi for the Cerbo to connect to.
• There was a math error in the 5x VoC calculation (thank you for correcting that)
• I recognize that there are different SKUs and that the inverters are either 12V, 24V, or 48V

I don't know anything about VE.Direct but I want to have access to seeing my MPPT output vs. Inverter Output vs. Battery Measurement (Shunt). I think I'll maybe need (2) VE.Direct cables?

Correct. one for MPPT; one for shunt.

and then the Cerbo GX will connect to the WiFi and I can access it from my phone.

You will be able to run the VRM app and get full system data.
You will be able to program your MP via VRM remote and a PC (or mac + wine or similar) running VEConfigure 3.
You will be able to connect to the MPPT and shunt while local with bluetooth AND remotely through VRM.

My needs are not poorly defined - in fact, they're about (5) years of measuring to confirm them (given my current setup).

Case #1 (50% of the year):

• 831.89W of typical usage. When multiplied times the # of hours they'll run, about 2667.56 Wh per day

Case #2 (25% of the year):

• 823W of typical usage, or 1863 Wh per day.

Case #3 (25% of the year):

• Case #1 + Case #2 = 1654 W, or 4530 Wh per day

If you conveyed these above, I missed them. kWh/day total is enough for planning.

Now, my panels are (5) 100W which in real conditions are providing about 300W / hr.

Please do not indicate W/hr. That's not a thing. Watts are a rate of energy production/consumption and represent one Joule per second. Thus when you say "300W/hr" you are actually saying 300J/s/hr, which makes no sense.

300W vs. 500W rated is pretty poor except in winter conditions. Given that we're now very near the spring equinox, Your optimal tilt is roughly your latitude.

So I would need 9 hrs of good sunlight for Case #1, 6 hrs for Case #2, and 15 hrs for Case #3.

Use the PVWatts link in my signature and run a 0.5kW array for your exact planned array and location. Paste the table of hours/energy per month.

Since that's unrealistic, I'm going to "grid tie" the inverter to the output I have from my "big solar setup" which is a 7.6kW inverter supported by 4140 W / hr.

Grid-tie strongly implies grid interaction (backfeeding, boosting, etc.), which would not be desirable. If your plan is to simply feed the AC output of your main system into the input of the Multiplus and use it as backup, that would be preferred.

 

[Over9000]

Use the PVWatts link in my signature and run a 0.5kW array for your exact planned array and location. Paste the table of hours/energy per month.

Grid-tie strongly implies grid interaction (backfeeding, boosting, etc.), which would not be desirable. If your plan is to simply feed the AC output of your main system into the input of the Multiplus and use it as backup, that would be preferred.

See PVWatts below. And yes, I'm not doing a legit grid tie (there's no feedback), but I want the Inverter/Charger to run off of the AC input primarily and then if unavailable, revert to inverting off of the battery.

Regarding the equipment list, any thoughts? is that the right MPPT? Which inverter?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

See PVWatts below. And yes, I'm not doing a legit grid tie (there's no feedback), but I want the Inverter/Charger to run off of the AC input primarily and then if unavailable, revert to inverting off of the battery.

That's the default victron inverter/charger operation mode. Basically UPS backup system.

Regarding the equipment list, any thoughts? is that the right MPPT?

That MPPT will handle the 5S 100W panels per below calc listed in my first reply.

35A * 14.4V = 504W

Which inverter?

Either of the below:

MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 120V PMP122305120
MultiPlus-II 24/3000/70-50 120V (UL 485) PMP242305102

If you can spring for 24V now, you effectively double the capacity of the MPPT allowing 1000W usable Watts @ 24V.


Approximate daily yields from 500W oriented as you specified in PVWatts:

 

[Over9000]

Either of the below:

MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 120V PMP122305120
MultiPlus-II 24/3000/70-50 120V (UL 485) PMP242305102

If you can spring for 24V now, you effectively double the capacity of the MPPT allowing 1000W usable Watts @ 24V.

I have one Renogy AGM (12V) and one EcoWorthy LFP (12V). I can't series them together for 24V because that would be stupid from a charging curve perspective. If I wanted 24V, I'd have to pick up another one of them (either or). My problem is that it's shit cold in this environment (we hit -25C plenty) and the LFPs aren't a big fan of that.

I get that going to 24V would open me up for feeding in 1kW into that system, but I literally have no room to do that. I have (4) panels up there and if I move some things around, I can manage a 5th.

 

[Over9000]

So this will be my equipment list:

• MPPT = Victron 150/35 (link)
• The cheaper of MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 2000VA 120V (link) or MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 12/2000/80 (link)
• Wi-Fi Product = Cerbo GX (link)
• Shunt = IP21 SmartShunt 300A
• 2x VE Direct Cables (0.3m, 0.9m)

Where should I buy them @sunshine_eggo ?

Also, I didn't want the MultiPlus II unit (2 x 120V), I'll have no use for the split-phase operation it can support.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

So this will be my equipment list:

• MPPT = Victron 150/35 (link)
• The cheaper of MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 2000VA 120V (link) or MultiPlus Inverter/Charger 12/2000/80 (link)
• Wi-Fi Product = Cerbo GX (link)
• Shunt = IP21 SmartShunt 300A
• 2x VE Direct Cables (0.3m, 0.9m)

Where should I buy them @sunshine_eggo ?

On amazon from sellers (order of preference):

Pike Industries
Inverters-R-Us
JBTools

For direct non-amazon purchases, Current Connected. They include the additional 5 year warranty and will custom program the inverter before shipping if you want.

Also, I didn't want the MultiPlus II unit (2 x 120V), I'll have no use for the split-phase operation it can support.

Correct. They are only useful in a 50A RV where one would want to switch between single phase 15/30A shore and split phase 50A shore.

As was stated earlier, the 2000 may be insufficient for high sustained loads, so I recommended the 3000VA units. The MP-II have notably lower idle consumption than their MP equivalents.

I did not recommend the 2x120. I recommended the MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 120V PMP122305120 and the MultiPlus-II 24/3000/70-50 120V (UL 485) PMP242305102 - neither are the 2x120 units.

 

[Over9000]

As was stated earlier, the 2000 may be insufficient for high sustained loads, so I recommended the 3000VA units. The MP-II have notably lower idle consumption than their MP equivalents.

I did not recommend the 2x120. I recommended the MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 120V PMP122305120 and the MultiPlus-II 24/3000/70-50 120V (UL 485) PMP242305102 - neither are the 2x120 units.

Do you feel my 1600W total usage is something that is a "high sustained load"?

MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 120V PMP122305120 = Jesus H. Mary & Joseph. $1000 ? I can't understand how it would be that much better than either unit I recommended. It's also a 3kVA unit vs. a 2KVA one, but man, that's expensive. I really don't think I need 3KVA when I'm looking at 1600 W as the real "peak" load, even if it's continuous.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Do you feel my 1600W total usage is something that is a "high sustained load"?

MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 120V PMP122305120 = Jesus H. Mary & Joseph. $1000 ? I can't understand how it would be that much better than either unit I recommended. It's also a 3kVA unit vs. a 2KVA one, but man, that's expensive. I really don't think I need 3KVA when I'm looking at 1600 W as the real "peak" load, even if it's continuous.

If you will NEVER run for more than 30 minutes between 1600 and 2000W, the 2000VA unit should be fine unless you are powering motors with high surge.

 

[Over9000]

If you will NEVER run for more than 30 minutes between 1600 and 2000W, the 2000VA unit should be fine unless you are powering motors with high surge.

I have a small 1/4-hp immersion pump but it's used < 1% of the time. It might run 1 hr total throughout the course of a year.

With this noted, do you have a recommendation between the 2kVA inverters?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I have a small 1/4-hp immersion pump but it's used < 1% of the time. It might run 1 hr total throughout the course of a year.

That should not exceed 2000W inrush, and that's well within the unit's surge capacity.

With this noted, do you have a recommendation between the 2kVA inverters?

cheaper.